Shipwright Archive
Thread: Upgradeable/Hyperdrive Starter Ships and NO damage/decay from Space PvP??????
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One-of-Fourteen
Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:08 pm
#1
This change about giving upgradeable ships with hyperdrives to new pilots makes the Tier 1 ships that are craftable by Shipwrights about as worthless as CDEF weapons craftable by Weaponsmiths.
The change about eliminating damage and decay for PvP with ships makes the Shipwright Profession no longer viable. Tell me do weapons not decay when used in PvP play? How can a shipwright sell additional ships if they are not going to decay after being repaired of damage? Didn't Architect teach anybody anything? Some things just never cease to amaze me, and the amazement is not good!
Subcriminal
Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:41 pm
#2
Yeah I think it's rather crappy as well. However you will still have some amount of return business because people still get decay in PvE out there in space.
styx66
Wed Dec 08, 2004 11:39 pm
#3
Its really hard to be a correspondent when they dont bother to mention they are going to change something before they change it.
Needless to say I'm pretty up in arms about it on the corr forums, and while it really isn't my place, I apologize for the latest changes as they are boosts to one profession at the expense of another.
1st_Viduus
Thu Dec 09, 2004 2:56 am
#4
Nice to meet you... if you happen to see _Smoke_ over there, tell him his forum is missing him also...
Regarding this... it's not "boosting one at the expense of another".
It's downright robbery of the SW's and does very little for the pilots.
Before:
In your starter ship you get a bunch of loot... so you need somewhere to fit it... so you go get a crafted hull, as per everyone's advice.
Once you've done that, the loot starts making sense, and you start selling the crap and keeping the good stuff (getting you an education on what things are worth, if you even just browse the bazaar) - which you in turn bring to a SW for RE, and start learning about CRAFTED products... and use your bad-loot-sales-funds to buy more.. and so the cycle begins. You know well inadvance what it's going to cost you as you grind to the next tier, so it's no surprise. What IS a surprise is that you've made most of that money just from missions and loot just in space, if not more than you need....
Now:
In your starter ship you get some loot... so you upgrade... then you get a few boxes and want to upgrade further... and find out that Tier2 & higher hulls cost WAY more than that free ship you got... so um... yeah... think we'll keep the free one, and whine and complain about how the SW are all thieves...
GadonThek
Thu Dec 09, 2004 7:17 am
#5
I cant say Im a fan of the new upgradeable starter ship, but in my mind, anyone who objects to no decay in Deep Space(only in deep space, they still decay if they die in any other system) is nothing more than a selfish money-whore.
Its that simple, PvP is hardly flourishing, do you know how many people I saw in Deep Space when I was an SS Ace? None. Why? They didnt want to lose their good quality (EXPENSIVE) componants. Perhaps is some of you were not charging 50 CPU on componants, this change would not have been needed. Ive already decided to specialise in REing, because if I charge the prices I want to charge(ie, fair), re-selling greedy gits would just buy out all my stock, and I dont have the time to spend supplying all the other greedy buggers on my server.
Its that simple, PvP is hardly flourishing, do you know how many people I saw in Deep Space when I was an SS Ace? None. Why? They didnt want to lose their good quality (EXPENSIVE) componants. Perhaps is some of you were not charging 50 CPU on componants, this change would not have been needed. Ive already decided to specialise in REing, because if I charge the prices I want to charge(ie, fair), re-selling greedy gits would just buy out all my stock, and I dont have the time to spend supplying all the other greedy buggers on my server.
Stikjok
Thu Dec 09, 2004 8:28 am
#6
GadonThek wrote:
I cant say Im a fan of the new upgradeable starter ship, but in my mind, anyone who objects to no decay in Deep Space(only in deep space, they still decay if they die in any other system) is nothing more than a selfish money-whore.
Its that simple, PvP is hardly flourishing, do you know how many people I saw in Deep Space when I was an SS Ace? None. Why? They didnt want to lose their good quality (EXPENSIVE) componants. Perhaps is some of you were not charging 50 CPU on componants, this change would not have been needed. Ive already decided to specialise in REing, because if I charge the prices I want to charge(ie, fair), re-selling greedy gits would just buy out all my stock, and I dont have the time to spend supplying all the other greedy buggers on my server.
You say PvP isn't flourishing and blame the crafters prices, but I recall full sets of high qualitylayered comp armor were selling for 250K and up on my server before I retired from Armor Smith and became Shipwright. Do you contend that Armor Smiths and Weapon Smiths killed ground PvP?
I could just as easily blame the combat class "griefers" for their actions which have led to numerous changes in this gamethat havemade ground PvP just as rare as space PvP is now.
You say Shipwrights are greedy for charging what they charge, but is it not just as greedy to want PvP (or PvE) combat without any decay penalties to DEATH?
I would say that PvP in this game has other issues which are the cause of the problems you complain about.
As a crafter I object to any change that makes player crafted products worthless. This is not due to greed but the DEV's own stated"commitment" to not taking actions to change the game in wayswhich hurt the player crafter. All 3 of these changes do this to one degree or another.
By the way, I specialize in RE'd components rather than crafted components. I buy those components at 2000 per RE level. Is that greed?
I sell the RE'd products at 2200 per RE level times the number of items it takes to RE. I only make 10% on any RE'd item I sell. Is that greed?
I add 10% to cover the cost of crafting the RE tools, maintenance fees for my storage, vendor fees to sell the RE'd items, and what ever is left (not much) is payment for my time. Is that greed?
If I buy 3 RE lvl 3 items it costs me a total of 6000. I RE themand sellthe final productfor 6600, so how is making 600 credits for my work greed?
If you think the above is greedy then I wish you luck in so many ways..........
1st_Viduus
Thu Dec 09, 2004 8:39 am
#7
GadonThek wrote:
I cant say Im a fan of the new upgradeable starter ship, but in my mind, anyone who objects to no decay in Deep Space(only in deep space, they still decay if they die in any other system) is nothing more than a selfish money-whore.
Its that simple, PvP is hardly flourishing, do you know how many people I saw in Deep Space when I was an SS Ace? None. Why? They didnt want to lose their good quality (EXPENSIVE) componants. Perhaps is some of you were not charging 50 CPU on componants, this change would not have been needed. Ive already decided to specialise in REing, because if I charge the prices I want to charge(ie, fair), re-selling greedy gits would just buy out all my stock, and I dont have the time to spend supplying all the other greedy buggers on my server.
I don't know a single msw that charges more that 10 cpu, and most charge much less than that.
Before you start spewing numbers, at least get the facts.
And if someone on your server IS charging 50 cpu, then go find another shipwright.
You know, shop around? DO something?
For the people affected by this change, the cert parts and hulls can be bought for under 2 cpu in many cases.
Which translates to "selling at a loss".
DingoBoi
Thu Dec 09, 2004 8:41 am
#8
Maybe nobody pvp's because nobody likes to except you three pvp monkeys.
you'll never get kessel back at this rate if you don't pvp with what's given to you. And it serves you wankers right. Oh no, we won't pvp in deep space or declare.. no. we only want to pvp in kessel against newbs. Yah.. kthanxbye
GadonThek
Thu Dec 09, 2004 9:06 am
#9
EDITED: My remarks were overly critical and could be construed as offensive, so I have removed them. I apologise.
Message Edited by GadonThek on 12-10-2004 12:19 AM
Stikjok
Thu Dec 09, 2004 9:31 am
#10
First you say;
GadonThek wrote:
but people like you disgust me. You generalise, you whine and complain
Then you say;
GadonThek wrote:
you continually to try and squeeze every single last credit out of PvPers, and you complain if the devs do ANYTHING to encourage them.
If I remember rightly, retards like you went through the old "THE SKY IS FALLING OMFG!!!!!" routine back then too
Who's generalizing?
Who's flaming and calling names? ("retards")
Theodis_Darkstar
Thu Dec 09, 2004 2:05 pm
#11
I think they needed to reduce the penalty for PvP in space. It's got to get lively up there or there will be alot of bored master pilots which means less business from all of us. Reducing it to zero may not have been the best approach, but for now we should see an increase in activity - I hope!
EdOWar
Thu Dec 09, 2004 3:05 pm
#12
If no one is PvPing in space (or on the ground), it's because there's no reason to PvP. You fly up, blast some ships, but at the end of the day those guys you blasted are still there, you've gained nothing, your faction gained nothing, you didn't even get any loot or credits. Maybe you can get faction points, but by my understanding, faction points aren't all thatuseful unless you want to plop down a base or something.
What would be nice is a PvP system where there are real benefits and consequences, not just defending a Star Destroyer or a Starbasethat will respawn in a couple of hours anyways. How about being able to gain control of a planet, region, city or space station, and being able to derive tangible benefits fromit. That would give people a real reason to PvP, and the GCW would actually matter. Maybe the GCW revamp will have something like this, but how far away is that?
Slim Vargo, Corbantis
Scythe
Thu Dec 09, 2004 10:41 pm
#13
Think of it this way: For those of us who have been around since launch, for how long were we going before weapons, armor, and all other items decayed when you died? MONTHS. No insurance, no cloning needed, dying was thought a very acceptable way to get from here to there...why walk all the way back from the krayt graveyard to Entha (pre-bikes, mounts, and player cities) when you could just die with absolutely no penalty. That didn't kill WS and AS then, it won't harm us much now.
Suck it up, it's only deep space PVP anyway :-p
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