Shipwright Archive
Thread: Factory Support Is Needed For Shipwright.
only86
Mon Nov 01, 2004 4:34 am
#92
One thing I thought I might mention
Those who didn't play beta but bought JTL for the crafting aspect
me>
There was no warning for us that factories were not to be implemented
I spent money on this expansion for shipwright and shipwright alone with the understanding that aside from being complex and having RE it would be like other crafting professions - with factory support
they shouldn't change the basics that have been established for crafting especially when we arepaying to do that crafting
PS>
I've been master shipwright for a day or two now and I have had 6-8 hour lines each day
my arms and hands hurt and I'm sick of it...
Message Edited by only86 on 11-01-2004 05:36 AM
Niacia
Mon Nov 01, 2004 5:47 am
#93
only86 wrote:One thing I thought I might mentionThose who didn't play beta but bought JTL for the crafting aspectme>There was no warning for us that factories were not to be implementedI spent money on this expansion for shipwright and shipwright alone with the understanding that aside from being complex and having RE it would be like other crafting professions - with factory supportthey shouldn't change the basics that have been established for crafting especially when we are paying to do that craftingPS>I've been master shipwright for a day or two now and I have had 6-8 hour lines each daymy arms and hands hurt and I'm sick of it...Message Edited by only86 on 11-01-2004 05:36 AM
They did not change anything. It is just that SW is different from other crafting professions.
About 50% of the players seem to like this difference. About 50% do not seem to like it. That is why there is so much of a discussion going on.
This might have to do something with what crafting professions people come from. As a DE, where only a few parts really rely on experimentation, I have no qualms about selling things with a little blemish. After all, people can take a look at the parts before buying, and if they are not satisfied, the can leave it sitting in my vendor. No harm done.
Most of the time I am doing custom orders anyway. If things do not turn out acceptable for my customer, I will put it on the vendor. Somebody else might like it.
And regarding time, I do not spend all my time crafting. My customers usually accept, if I tell them, I am done crafting for the day and that I want to use my spare time for other stuff.
Have not had a problem so far.
I throughoutly enjoy SW.
Regarding the matter of choice of playstyle. I agree, that it is a good thing, if the player can choose his playstyle. And even if there were factories I could still handcraft. But it is not reasonable to assume, that factories would have no impact on those people that like to handcraft. And if that impact is so big, that it really makes handcrafting unreasonable, then this is not about choice anymore.
From my experience as a crafter in several MMORGs, this is what would happen. I do not believe, that both kinds of crafting could flourish side by side.
Right now, there is a choice. If you want handcrafting do SW. If you want factory crafting do something else. While this is disapointing for people wanting do do SW and factory crafting, this is a real choice...
Maybe SOE should have done it another way. Instead of one new crafting profession there should have been two. Imperial shipwright with factory support and Rebel shipwright without. Of course, in this case, the components could not be compatible.
Regards
Niacia
JupiterFist
Mon Nov 01, 2004 5:50 am
#94
Please watch this video, and listen carefully for a rule regarding starting new threads.
Posting and you!
Posting and you!
-----------------------------------------------------
- btw, I will probably have to change my sig to say "FLORA Resources"... geez, if anyone knows me, they know that I have hoarded like no other... and I am even getting low on stuff.
Message Edited by JupiterFist on 11-01-2004 06:58 AM
Brilyn
Mon Nov 01, 2004 6:55 am
#95
< Yea, it was provocative. Just like you stating "Not going to happen" is provocative. >
Sarcasm is provocative.
I'm sorry you find a simple statement of opinion provacative. Deal with it. (clue number 1 I'm getting frustrated by your *lack* of substance)
< But it is a compromise that I think most could accept. >
I am underwhelmed by the response to your idea. If people were interested, people would post and say so.
< You could easily make different limits on different schematics depending on what they are used for. >
Again: not going to happen.
Yes, this is a prediction of the future. Just like when I say "They're not going to rename Chassis to Hull".
I'm sorry this does is not as blindingly obvious to you as it is to me:
It's a fast (and slippery) slope from "allowing very limited factory support" to "allowing full factory support".
If they have a reason for not allowing factory support (and I presume that they do), then allowing any factory support invalidates it, and players will scream and whine about "how come Missile Packs get bigger factory runs than Chassis?!?! I want bigger factory runs. It's not fair!!!!" and so on.
People are going to start specialising (threads have started about it already), and the *specialists* aregoing to whine about the other *specialists* being able to make larger factory runs than them.
< Funny how you disagreeing with my arguments make them false. *LOL* >
I have posted my counterpoints.
You have posted several times since, and not once countered them.
Forgive me for presuming you have accepted them. Feel free to counter them.
< Ehh... I was referring to you stating "Not going to happen" like it was a fact of life and thereby trying to stop any further discussion on that matter. >
Get over yourself, seriously.
First off: it *is* a fact of life that the limited schematic thing you propose is not going to happen. If you can't accept that, that's your problem.
Secondly: I'm not trying to stop any further discussion. I couldn't, even if I wanted to. Locking this thread won't stop it (because some other whiner will start another one). Booting you guys off this forum won't stop it (because you'll have the discussion elsewhere). Bearing in mind I can't do *either* of these things.
All I can do is: "Your idea is crap, and here's why."
You can like the tone or not, I don't really care.
AllI care about is seeing constructive posts.
And bear in mind I only started *this* tone after you have *decided* that the discussion is only closed once you get your way, and it will always be open til then. That's the attitude of a 6yo. "Either it happens my way, or I'll keep screaming".........
GogoDodo
Mon Nov 01, 2004 7:05 am
#96
-Redux- wrote:
No factory support! Absolutely not!
The lack of factory support is the BEST thing about being a shipwright. It means that you can be run out of business by a larger concern, and it also means that premium pricing on shipwright products is justified rather than just gouging. I like the fact that I have customers waiting instead of having to hope that my products sell. I know I have a market, and I know that I will be able to keep a business running successfully for quite some time.
I like having a stake in what I make. I still handcraft most of my weapons. I get no pleasure from slapping a schematic in a factory, dumping in some resources, and waiting a few days. I do get pleasure from carefully crafting each part and feeling like I am actually doing something worthwhile. It is far more exciting and interesting to me. Like today, even though I still on the grind to master, I made some really great chassis's with some good experimentation. I can't wait until master so I can really customize things. Factories take the joy out of being an artisan.
I think it will really help keep the money grubbers out of shipwright and invigorate the true artisans that really enjoy creating things.
Thats a fine approach, one i can agree with and appreciate. But i look at it this way, if i run basic/generic components thru the factory i have more time to spend doing custom orders. I like crafting, and have been a master architect since shortly after release, but having to hand make everything is starting to get tedious.
zineotic
Mon Nov 01, 2004 7:14 am
#97
If they are going to do this to Shipwright, they need to do it to every crafting profession... let's see some equality.
FreeEnterprise
Mon Nov 01, 2004 8:35 am
#98
I have a better idea, why dont they make ship components fall under the other crafting professions in the game where the seem most fit, just to gain a measure of equality. What has basically happened is that all crafting business has gone to SW's since the release. Again, sony has singled out their pet profession and alienated every other profession in the game in the process. Why arent weapons systems made by weaponsmiths, armor made by armorsmiths, etc etc?
zineotic wrote:
If they are going to do this to Shipwright, they need to do it to every crafting profession... let's see some equality.
Sturngard_Blastshield
Mon Nov 01, 2004 10:46 am
#99
Quadork wrote:
Did y'all ever think that this was intentional by the dev's so that a few large shipwrights couldn't control the entire marketplace?
Right now there's a handful of premier weapon and armor suppliers on my server because they all make 1000's of components at a time. They are effectively keeping up with the demand, thus not allowing any room for others to become proficient ws's or as's.
I agree 100% with the above quote
pervel
Mon Nov 01, 2004 2:51 pm
#100
Dare I say: Take a look at yourself. If a third person look at your posts, I am pretty sure itwill look like you will not stop until you have "won" the argument.
Brilyn wrote:
And bear in mind I only started *this* tone after you have *decided* that the discussion is only closed once you get your way, and it will always be open til then. That's the attitude of a 6yo. "Either it happens my way, or I'll keep screaming".........
I am not the one saying that my opinions are a fact of life and that your statements are false. I actually value your arguments and opinions - I just don't agree with them. If you think that is the attitude of a 6yo, then by all means consider me a kid.
I am not going to stop arguing that factories will make the shipwright profession better overall. I think it is an important argument. But I don't think trying to discuss it any further with you has much point. It will just blur the discussion and make it pretty boring.
You have your theories and opinions about the game and I have mine. You haven't made any points to convince me that your theory is the right one. And I haven't convinced you either. And I didnt expect to. In short: We don't agree. The two of us should probably leave it at that.
only86
Tue Nov 02, 2004 3:41 am
#101
Shipwright gave me carpel tunnel
I've maintaned a successfull empire without it..
it just makes me angry with its lack of fac support
thank you good night
Bazalan
Tue Nov 02, 2004 4:38 am
#102
So many people arguing that SW shouldn't have factories. LOL! SW doesn't have factory support because JTL is still beta. They didn't finish it plain and simple.
Sabrina_Kanela
Tue Nov 02, 2004 5:08 am
#103
In the bigger scheme of things this helps the powergamer and limits the casual gamer. I had enough time last night to go to my harvesters and unload them and 1order which took an hour(2 ships 1 fully loaded). Really this system support those people who have the luxury of time on their hands. When I was an AS i could do my factory runs do my harvester runs talk to my customers while I placed armor. I am lucky if I will be able to fit a customer a day in now. Heaven forbid me to have to move my harvesters and find a new spot to harvest the named resource that will be one day wasted itself. As for people saying cornering the market... There are many AS out there on my server some known more then others, but I doubt anyone has cornered the market.
BTW how many factory runs are going to be done in 1000s with the resource requirements? It would die pretty quick without massive support team of miners.
Message Edited by Sabrina_Kanela on 11-02-2004 04:11 AM
4Bidden
Tue Nov 02, 2004 11:05 am
#104
Sturngard_Blastshield wrote:
Quadork wrote:
Did y'all ever think that this was intentional by the dev's so that a few large shipwrights couldn't control the entire marketplace?
Right now there's a handful of premier weapon and armor suppliers on my server because they all make 1000's of components at a time. They are effectively keeping up with the demand, thus not allowing any room for others to become proficient ws's or as's.
I agree 100% with the above quote
I don't agree... Behind almost every premier weaponsmith or armorsmith thereis a group of people supporting them with resources. I good WS or AS is only as good as his/her resources. My shipwright business is booming and its mainly because I'm in a guild of 15 people supplying me with resources all the time.
I've said it once and I'll say it again. Factories will help the small business shipwright because it will fine tune the crafting process. It will allow for less resource loss due to crit failures during experimentation. I would like to see factory support with 2 conditions, I don't want to see chassis be made on a factory, and I want to see schems limited to 50 or less.
As of right now, supply is not meeting demand, and I don't see that changing. People are progressing to fast. I made lvl 3 parts for someone yesterday, and today I have to make lvl 5 parts for that same person.Don't get me wrong,I am having so much fun being a shipwright. I truly enjoy crafting, but the problem is in order to supply that demand, I have to be in front of a crafting station for at least 3 hours... After a while it isn't fun anymore.I am surprised the devs haven't responded to these discussions... 7 out of 8 SW's I've spoke to ingame want factory support, and I want it to..