Shipwright Archive

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NordaIspe wrote:

I'm really tired of these pricing debates. Look if someone is selling their item for x price then they are content with recieving x price as their reward. Sure you can buy that product and sell it for more GO AHEAD AND DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!

You are satisfying the original creator AND you so dont say that person is selling for a loss because they are happy with"X" price and the difference between your price and theirs DOES NOT MATTER!

I mine my own resources using lot swaps only have 10 down but they have been in the same place now forever so the cost of the harvestor has been paid off a long long time ago so the only cost to me is the maintaince and power (with merchant discount it really drops the price).

I started doing SW and sold and will sell the noob ships on the baazar. Go ahead and buy them since I was going to destory them making some profit from nothing is better than making no profit. The big kick in the pants is the fact that the difference in practice and create prototye is so minute that its stupid to use practice mode for SW untill you are at the higher chasis's.

If someone is selling a lot less than you and still turning a profit maybe you should look at your prices. Saw someone selling a Y Wing blueprint for 300k went a few shops down and got it for 85k. Came back 3 days later and all of the expensive guys ships were still there whereas the other guy was sold out.

Everyone is out to make as much money as they possibley can and that is whats killing the economy not the power gamers or grinders.

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Lot swaps can be considered an exploit. I dont think you should be advertizing this fact.

I guess in all our shouting you forget to read the rest of the posts. If you had, you would realize that most shipwrights are trying to avoid this profession going the same route that architect did. When you sell your wares for less that the market value of the raw materials, you are hurting the profession as a whole because you setting a bad precedence.

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NordaIspe wrote:

I'm really tired of these pricing debates. Look if someone is selling their item for x price then they are content with recieving x price as their reward. Sure you can buy that product and sell it for more GO AHEAD AND DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!

You are satisfying the original creator AND you so dont say that person is selling for a loss because they are happy with"X" price and the difference between your price and theirs DOES NOT MATTER!

I mine my own resources using lot swaps only have 10 down but they have been in the same place now forever so the cost of the harvestor has been paid off a long long time ago so the only cost to me is the maintaince and power (with merchant discount it really drops the price).

I started doing SW and sold and will sell the noob ships on the baazar. Go ahead and buy them since I was going to destory them making some profit from nothing is better than making no profit. The big kick in the pants is the fact that the difference in practice and create prototye is so minute that its stupid to use practice mode for SW untill you are at the higher chasis's.

If someone is selling a lot less than you and still turning a profit maybe you should look at your prices. Saw someone selling a Y Wing blueprint for 300k went a few shops down and got it for 85k. Came back 3 days later and all of the expensive guys ships were still there whereas the other guy was sold out.

Everyone is out to make as much money as they possibley can and that is whats killing the economy not the power gamers or grinders.

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Please, please promise me that you'll use practice mode on tier 4 ships. And if you have already, thank you.


oh, and I forgot to mention one observation in your cost analysis. What happens if no quality resources shift under your immobile harvesters? Yes you could harvest poor quality, but that's the difference between your operation and mine I guess. You favor security over profit potential, while I'll try not to take a loss on profit potential which introduces a bit of risk. Until SW grind, I only put down harvesters if at least one of the major attributes was above 800.

Message Edited by CerionSkydreamer on 11-02-2004 03:36 AM

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PugBalato wrote:

The subject of this thread says it all: "Shipwrights Unite!!!".

My question is:

WHY? Why should we unite?

As a Shipwright my responsibilities lie with my customer and myself. I have NO responsibility towards other Shipwright's - we're all competing with eachother (I'm in roleplay mode now :smileytongue. What you're asking some of us to do is to raise our prices to help those out that couldn't be bothered to put in the hard work to cut their costs in the first place. In business we're hereto help ourselves, not our competitors. So if I, as a competitor,am happy selling ships at a certain priceand mycustomers are happy then why shouldIdo anything to make my competitors happy. That just doesn't make sense.

If you can't match a competitor's prices then either improve your business to be able to compete with those prices or find another way of competing, like better advertising, better products, and so on. If you're still not able to make a living and are losing money, then you're in the wrong business and you shouldn't be in it.

People talk about hurting the profession by keeping prices low. I disagree. The only thing that is being hurt are those people that can't be bothered to compete in what is a very competitive environment. The good Shipwright's will rise above that and provide a good service, good products at reasonable prices to their customers, whilst keeping their costs low and their profit margins within acceptable levels.

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PugBalato,

I agree to a certain extent -- price fixing is bad. I prefer natural market forces and capitalist tools to influence those forces.

Having said that, it's perfectly legitimate to manage expectations of the customer base. There are plenty of player pilots out there who practically demand that you take a loss in order for them to have their ship. Now of course you don't have to sell it to them. There will be pilots who want the cheapest prices, which is fine. If the cheapest price for ships requires you to run missions to support your losses, and you're fine with that, then let me say that YOU the shipwright are being taken advantage of by a greedy pilot. I wish we could get passed the name calling, but it goes both ways. Pilots will be just as greedy as SWs. These greedy pilots will demand you sacrifice your self worth so that they can enjoy their game. Well, if you want to fall for that, go right ahead and run your missions.

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CerionSkydreamer wrote:


PugBalato,

I agree to a certain extent -- price fixing is bad. I prefer natural market forces and capitalist tools to influence those forces.

Having said that, it's perfectly legitimate to manage expectations of the customer base. There are plenty of player pilots out there who practically demand that you take a loss in order for them to have their ship. Now of course you don't have to sell it to them. There will be pilots who want the cheapest prices, which is fine. If the cheapest price for ships requires you to run missions to support your losses, and you're fine with that, then let me say that YOU the shipwright are being taken advantage of by a greedy pilot. I wish we could get passed the name calling, but it goes both ways. Pilots will be just as greedy as SWs. These greedy pilots will demand you sacrifice your self worth so that they can enjoy their game. Well, if you want to fall for that, go right ahead and run your missions.

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I totally agree. And as much as I don't like greedy SWs I don't like greedy pilots either.

Bottom line is, I want to run my SW business as I see fit - at a profit. I want this to be my main source of income so there's no way I'm going to run my business at a loss. I will try to keep my costs down by harvesting my own materials (where possible) and price my ships as cheaply as I can so that I am competetive with the other shipwright's and still able to profit. Which I have been doing so far (even though I'm still a novice).

High prices can hurt the profession just as much as low prices. High prices attracts other people to become SWs because they think they can make a quick buck and it oversaturates the market. And low prices can starve the market of SWs. Like any economy though there will be ups and downs and eventually, once the dust settles things will balance out. Either way, the good SWs will remain in business and the bad ones will, in the long run, fall by the side.

Another variable to consider in this. I'm all for charging a reasonable rate for chassis given the market value of the resources that go into making them, that just makes sense. HOWEVER, components are a whole 'nother ball of wax. You can talk about resource costs all you want, but in the end the pilots do a very simple math "Is this crafted item so much better than this looted item that I should pay X credits for it?"

Large scale RE'ing hasn't even started yet and most pilots already feel that capacitors and engines (and probably reactors) are best left to loot, while armor, shields, and weapons are best left to crafters. Pricing in that environment is very tricky and solely based on demand (I can sell 10 of these at 20k or 2 at 40k, but no one will buy them at 60k). Price fixing in those situations wil be nearly impossible, it's a buyers market.

k guys i am a aspiring shipewright. 1st of all 2k for steel 12K what you are u thinking. Thats like saying i jsut boutght a 4$ burger for 40$. Comon guys, NO "NOOB" can afford a 66k to 110k tie light or soming and that is your main market. The Begginer ships such as the tie light and such can be made for o say 15k at good prices. HOW DO YOU JUSTIFY 66K FROM THAT? this is absolutly insane. I herd about the house matience thing and vendor but thats lik 5k for house and 3k for vendor. you guys arent opeaning your full market to everyone. Do you know how many people made new caras for JTL? I dont know a number but jsut take a look around. And as for the steel prices i think that if we create a given guild on any server to gather resources and we cap the prices we could bring them down. THis would make some people not only shipwright extreamly rich and also allow the prices to drop somewhat. If Any1 of you shipwrights have been around mos eisly but i always hear "noobs" asking for z-95's, ties,and scyk's and i might buy 1 for them and that y im broke atm LOL. So guys i believe we need to form a active harvester/shipwirhgt orginization to get this in reason. Well guys that all i gota say

HAve fun

Pricing has gone insane on most servers I would say. Ofcours alot of them are buying resources at high cost, and wish to make a profit of it, that I can understand. But I would say, that a "true/dedicated" crafter will always harvest his own resources, at minimum cost. Resulting in better prices, and equal profit as those with high prices.

But the main thing remains. Prices are diffrent from server to server, also the market demand. Based on the demand, and the need of the ship is what sets my prices.

as we all know, example the TIE Light Fighter, you only need it as novice (unless u keep the starter ship) and will properbly only use it for like 1 hour before u advance to next lvl. Ergo, the TIE Light is quiet "worthless" as it will only be used for 1 hour. Based on that, I have based my prices like this:

Novice - 3cpu, little resources is needed, minimum profit
lvl 1 - 4cpu, alittle more resources and bigger uses with it.
lvl 2 - 5cpu, time to keep this for awhile to grind.
lvl 3 - 7cpu, takes alot more resources, meaning more time to collect, more maintance/power.
lvl 4 - 9cpu, Final ship, most ppl would stay with this kind of ship. Alot resources needed, more time...
Master - 13cpu, Multiships, good for guildevents, ALOT of resources and time to collect this. 13cpu is a fair price I would say.

Those prices are based on demand. Nothing else. I can understand those ppl who buy resources at 5-10cpu, they want those money back, plus alittle extra.

So I would say, dont base it on CPU, base it on demand and what it can be used for.

For components, I simply made them at: 2,4,6,8,10 for lvl 1-5. Same as ships. lvl 1 is less used, therefor it should be cheeper to buy and destroy, minimum loss to customer. Higher lvl more usefull..

Well, just a though for ya all.. Atleast thats how my shop prices are based...

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Aniced_Inc wrote:
Pricing has gone insane on most servers I would say. Ofcours alot of them are buying resources at high cost, and wish to make a profit of it, that I can understand. But I would say, that a "true/dedicated" crafter will always harvest his own resources, at minimum cost. Resulting in better prices, and equal profit as those with high prices.

But the main thing remains. Prices are diffrent from server to server, also the market demand. Based on the demand, and the need of the ship is what sets my prices.

as we all know, example the TIE Light Fighter, you only need it as novice (unless u keep the starter ship) and will properbly only use it for like 1 hour before u advance to next lvl. Ergo, the TIE Light is quiet "worthless" as it will only be used for 1 hour. Based on that, I have based my prices like this:

Novice - 3cpu, little resources is needed, minimum profit
lvl 1 - 4cpu, alittle more resources and bigger uses with it.
lvl 2 - 5cpu, time to keep this for awhile to grind.
lvl 3 - 7cpu, takes alot more resources, meaning more time to collect, more maintance/power.
lvl 4 - 9cpu, Final ship, most ppl would stay with this kind of ship. Alot resources needed, more time...
Master - 13cpu, Multiships, good for guildevents, ALOT of resources and time to collect this. 13cpu is a fair price I would say.

Those prices are based on demand. Nothing else. I can understand those ppl who buy resources at 5-10cpu, they want those money back, plus alittle extra.

So I would say, dont base it on CPU, base it on demand and what it can be used for.

For components, I simply made them at: 2,4,6,8,10 for lvl 1-5. Same as ships. lvl 1 is less used, therefor it should be cheeper to buy and destroy, minimum loss to customer. Higher lvl more usefull..

Well, just a though for ya all.. Atleast thats how my shop prices are based...

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