Shipwright Archive
Thread: Updated Shipwright Issues and Bugs (Oct 29 2004)
Wovram
Sun Oct 31, 2004 12:48 pm
#66
The last combine in a tool does not let you name it.
If your chosen name is rejected u get no chanceto change the name again.
Starcloud
Sun Oct 31, 2004 3:28 pm
#67
- Ships in the same tier can often have vastly different mass capacities. Sometimes several times what other ships do. Is this intended?
Working as intended. This was part of ship differentiation, so that everyone wasn't flying the same ship at the same tier for all missions, especially at higher tiers. The ship mass conforms to the role of the ship, and the apparent size of the ship. Before these changes went in, every rebel Master Pilot was flying a B-wing, because it was as fast as an A-wing, as manuverable as every other ship, and capable of mounting all top-tier components. You would have been able to predict what tier a pilot was in simply by looking at what craft he was flying. Now, you have to make choices when you fly, and having ships for different roles is an excellent design decision. Maybe a mission that was extremely hard in an X-wing would be a cakewalk in a Y-wing Longprobe, due to the different capabilities of the ships... This is a good thing for both pilots and shipwrights.
- Crafted engine stats changing when put in the ship and removed.
This may or may not be working entirely 100% as intended, but it's only a display problem.
Every chassis has a set of statistics for Roll, Pitch, Yaw accelleration. These statistics are now tied to the chassis, not the engine, but they display on the engine when it is put into the chassis. RPY Accelleration statistics *don't matter* on an engine, since they change according to the chassis.
Every chassis has a cap on Roll, Pitch, and Yaw. These caps are applied to the engine when the engine is loaded into the chassis, but *do not* overwrite the actual RPY statistics on the engine. When you move the engine to a chassis with a higher cap on RPY, the true engine statistics, if lower than the cap, will appear again.
In both cases, the engine appears to be 'permanently' altered to the new values, until loaded into a different chassis.... this is theonly thing that might be considered abug.
Kilun
Sun Oct 31, 2004 7:27 pm
#68
I'd like to add the following information:
Using Mass Reducing items, for example Reactor Limiter or Mass Reduction Kits, are very unbalanced past level one, compared to the +ones of the same.
If these parts could be added into a lower tier component they would have a use, but as it is now, you might as well just use a fully crafted lower product.
I did a Mark V Mass Reduction Kit, got about -3.5k mass, after I made the Mark V item its stats were as follows: 1077Armor with 24k mass, that is very horrible compared to a normal Mark III item which is extremely lighter and just about the same Armor.
The Reactor I used was a Mark III one compared to my Mark III and it added little power and still had near double the mass. If we are going to have these items in, allow reducers to be used in more than just the current Mark, possibly 1 level below to balance it vs enhancers.
Otherwise these items are just space fillers for most people for the crafting trees.
Onto the front page- Mass Rates.
TIE vs Y-wing in Mass, I believe that is as intended, the Y-wing is the heavest rebel ship, heavier than an X-wing, A-wing and B-wing, there is no reason it shouldn't be considerably able to carry more than the TIE, the B-wing should be between the X-wing and Y-wing(I have yet to craft one of those) A-wing should be around 60-75mass range, don't remember where it panned out.
Wovram
Mon Nov 01, 2004 6:55 am
#69
Once more.
Reengineering items:
1.When completed if your name is rejected by the filter you do not get a second chance to name the output component.
2. The last combine in a tool destroys the tool and bypasses the naming window so the output is named after one of the components.
Animi
Mon Nov 01, 2004 6:56 am
#70
Kilun wrote:
Using Mass Reducing items, for example Reactor Limiter or Mass Reduction Kits, are very unbalanced past level one, compared to the +ones of the same.
I can echo this concern. Higher level products are generally not worth the added mass, even if you use a mass reducer. Mark 2 armor panels maxed out for armor HP are about 650 HP and 2500 mass. Making a Mark 3 armor panel with mass reducer produces armor with about 750 HP and 5K+ mass. Hmmmm.... which one would you choose?
In short, the performance on higher level products does not comport with the mass increase that accompanies them. I've got Tier 4 customers running aroundwith level3 and 5 components. They can't bring themselves to use the advanced components (excpet for maybe the sheilds).
Another issue that REALLY needs to be addressed is the fact that under NO CIRCUMSTANCES can a shipwright craft a booster, capacitor or engine that can compete with NON-RE'd loot components of the same level.
As a matter of fact, most level 5 and lower loot components are FAR SUPERIOR to level 7 and higher crafted components. It's not even close.
KabaI
Mon Nov 01, 2004 10:45 am
#71
Here's another one:
Why are we the only profession which needs an additional set of XP for their master box (only ground based, Skill Point using profession, I mean)?An additional 200k? That's another 10 tier 4 ships, at a cost of 320k more steel, 160k more ore, 80k more everything else. If we're getting hosed, how come everyone else isn't?
Rolassk
Mon Nov 01, 2004 2:21 pm
#72
KabaI wrote:
Here's another one:
Why are we the only profession which needs an additional set of XP for their master box (only ground based, Skill Point using profession, I mean)?An additional 200k? That's another 10 tier 4 ships, at a cost of 320k more steel, 160k more ore, 80k more everything else. If we're getting hosed, how come everyone else isn't?
I don't think we are getting hosed at all...
Takes about5 minutes to get your master box (if you have the resources).
Compared to waiting around in a starport, spamming the skills you can train to get the 620AP you need. Which, if your lucky maynot take to long (maybe 4-5 hours), or if your not so lucky (3-4 days).
You have to remember that everyone isn't in a big huge family style guild where everyone helps each other out by training low level skills over and over.
The apprentice system only worked for a few months during the holo grind, when players where learning new skills as quick as they could. I think this might be one thing that gets changed during the combat revamp for the ground profs.
I say, out with AP(dependant on everyone else)in with XP(dependant entirely on yourself)
*Kettemoor
Rancorbait
Mon Nov 01, 2004 3:10 pm
#73
I saw you had something in there about ships in the same tier that have different masses.
I don't think this is a bug, unless you can show that two similar ships types in the same tier have radicaly different masses.
In the example your comparing a Tie ( Light Fighter I think ) to a Y-wing ( Medium or Bomber I think )
Bombers have more mass but less manuverability, In short mass balances against manuverablitly based on the ship tiype. Light, Med, Heavy, Int, Bomer, POB
There were some posts on the beta boards, I'm not sure if there linked at the top.
PatielSunchaser
Mon Nov 01, 2004 6:50 pm
#74
Let me confirm that the boosters, capacitors, and engines are far, far, far less in ability than a good looted one.
I have had two customers order capacitors and when I showed them the stats, they laughed at them, and said their looted ones were double what they were. One mark 3 and one mark 4. I used the very best resources as well (weaponsmith since launch, you figure out if I have good resources)
When the customer laughs at your best effort, the Devs better get off their keisters and fix the poor stats of those three components in a hurry. Otherwise, I'll just fly missions and RE the loot. No need for shipwright past novice for those three components.
Kilun
Mon Nov 01, 2004 11:15 pm
#75
Why is everyone thinking that three products that we make are far better looted is a problem? Have you checked the amount of resources need to make these items? Its insane. I don't know about you but I'd rather skip one or two things and not make them.
I would complain if most people could not get these items, but since they are looted all the time, its worthwhile and a good thing, I'm not worried about the extra dough its bringing in, I'm worried about my hand not working because I ended up crafting another 50items if they feel this isn't working as intended. A custom order takes between 30min and an Hour, if nothing is made. I can cut that time down by 10-15minutes if I don't have to make a couple parts.
I like loot, I hated running around on the ground killing endless things that provided no challenge for a couple hours and get nothing, I like getting space loot, and its even better when something I find is actually worth using. Did I mention we save our customers some money?
Laeir
Tue Nov 02, 2004 1:40 am
#76
Re-engineering issues:
- When the dialog box is displayed for entering the re-engineered component's name, there is no information displayed for the final item stats (the window that showed the stats is closes). It would be nice if we could use the code for the item naming dialog box used in normal crafting.
- The name checking code for re-engineered components is too sensitive. The only names I've been able to have accepted are simple, short one word names. We should be able to name the item anything allowed by the normal crafting process.
- When the dialog box is displayed for entering the re-engineered component's name, there is no information displayed for the final item stats (the window that showed the stats is closes). It would be nice if we could use the code for the item naming dialog box used in normal crafting.
- The name checking code for re-engineered components is too sensitive. The only names I've been able to have accepted are simple, short one word names. We should be able to name the item anything allowed by the normal crafting process.
Seshemw
Tue Nov 02, 2004 3:42 am
#77
- Ships in the same tier can often have vastly different mass capacities. Sometimes several times what other ships do. Is this intended?
Example: Ywing ~150,000 Mass, Tie Fighter ~20,000.
Mass differentiation is per tier AND per-role. So in the above, the Y-wing is a bomber, so has vastly more mass than the fighter (TIE).
Better comparison to illustrate is by role:
Bomber:
tier1 Ywing (150k)
Tier2 Ywing longprobe (170k)
Tier3 Tie Bomber (190k)
Master B-wing (220k?)
I don't have all the ship numbers, or I'd write the list. When you compare it like this, you see things like:
Interceptor
Tie interceptor (tier3, 50k)
A-wing (tier4, 65k)
Which is the dev design, and why imps get 'shafted' (lower tier interceptor, less mass allowance than higher tier interceptor, even though it's nearly a quarter of the tier3 bomber mass allowance).
When you do this, you ALSO see that privateers got the dirty end of the stick. Their bombers are all significantly less than alliance or imperial bombers, and similar situation per-tier-per-role for their other fighters. 'increased flexibility' in the form of more weapon or ordinance hardpoints is (IMO) irrelevant when you don't have the mass to fill them with equivalent tier gear, especially when the higher tier usually has the max damage of the one below it as ITS min damage (tier1 330-440, tier2 450-900, say, with made-up numbers). So having 3 weapon slots that you have to fill with one to two tiers lower equipment isn't giving you anything but the illusion of 'more firepower' than the guy that has just one hardpoint AT that tier. (tier1 330-440, tier2 450-900, tier3 1000-1500... The guy with three tier1 weapons isn't doing any better than the guy with one tier3 weapon. And usually he won't have the mass for 3x tier2 weapons, or god forbid, 3x tier3 weapons).
Armor display on the HUD only shows the hitpoints as a percentage, not the amount of armor. The reason is the HUD (more specifically your component status portion) only displays the hitpoints of your components as a percentage. The problem is the hitpoint stat never degrades on armor, and thus your armor displays 100% even though it could potentially be knocked out.
The 'target info' screen won't show it correctly, but at least on the owner's HUD he can see his shield 'orange bars' going away when he gets hurt. Players rarely target themselves (ctrl-1) to see the target info on their own ship, so this mostly affects the group displays, yes?
Crafted engine stats changing when put in the ship and removed. Not confirmed
Confirmed, but not a bug. The stats that change are pitch/roll/yaw ACCELERATION. The maxes never change. Nor does the hardcapped speed (though the effective speed is also changed, per chassis type). This was put in during beta for chassis differentiation.
So an engine with experimented values of:
49 pitch accel
49 yaw accel
49 roll accel
49 pitch max
49 yaw max
49 roll max
60 max speed
Put that into a tie bomber, the three accel numbers will go down (to either 60 or 40, I misremember which). The max speed will still list 60 (but the max speed will be as if the number were around 10 lower, so 500 space speed in a bomber).
Take the engine out, and the adjusted stats will still read:
40 pitch accel
40 yaw accel
40 roll accel
49 pitch max
49 yaw max
49 roll max
60 max speed
Put it into a tie interceptor and it'll look like this:
400 pitch accel
400 yaw accel
400 roll accel
49 pitch max
49 yaw max
49 roll max
60 max speed
The engine itself doesn't change, only the detail display.
- Crafted Ship components loose their names when they are remove from ships. They name is replaced with strings like "Mark" instead of the original name.
More specifically, it truncates at the first space. If oyu have something called "Mark IV Starfighter Engine", when you come back it'll say "Mark" instead.
If you named it "Quality Assured Engine of Death", you'd come back to "Quality".
Currently, I name everything without spaces, so it stays named (Engine-Mk4-Overdrive).
Seshemw
Tue Nov 02, 2004 3:48 am
#78
DarthLueder wrote:
I'll have to double check tonight but it seemed to me that I only had 10 experimentation points for engines (I'm master). Now weapons have 15 experiment points. Wasn't there a change that engines also had the extra 5 points?
Specific types of components have more than 10 experimentation points due to the insane number of experimental values (such as weapons. Mass, reactor energy, energy per shot, refire rate, vs. armor, vs. shields, min damage, max damage, blah blah blah). Those you get 15 worth at master.
Others don't have as many values, so you get 10.