Shipwright Archive

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Aileili wrote:

All player crafted Novice ships (Scyk, Z95, Light Duty TIE) should have their maximum mass limits raised to 30k and the TIE Fighter's should be raised to 50k.

As its stands now, they are nearly worthless since it is just as easy to finish the tierone missions with the starter ship.

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Rolassk wrote:

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Aileili wrote:

All player crafted Novice ships (Scyk, Z95, Light Duty TIE) should have their maximum mass limits raised to 30k and the TIE Fighter's should be raised to 50k.

As its stands now, they are nearly worthless since it is just as easy to finish the tierone missions with the starter ship.

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I disagree.

The starter ships are just that starters. If you make them too powerful initially then the reverse of what you are hoping for will happen. Players will just skip over the Tier I and II ships until they hit Tier III.

Also the starter ship handed to you was intended to get you through the Tier I missions. That's why you need a player crafted one with a hyperdrive to move onto Tier II (meaning the life of your freebie is over with).

The advantage to having a crafted starter over the freebie, is for the hyperdrive capabilities, and you can equip it with shields, different style of gun, or add an ordinance. Using cert level 1 components on a starter chassis I hit the energy cap of the reactor, before the mass cap anyways.

The Tier I ships are more advantageous and don't need any modification IMHO either.

TIE Fighter has double the mass, and handles even better then the light duty (these things turn on a dime)
Y-Wing maybe sluggish and slow, but are a heavy fighter with lots of hitpoints and mass allowance

Dunelizzard is easily twice as good compared to the lowly Scyk.

I think the last mass tweak the DEVs gave to the starters beforebeta's end wasjust right (they went from 10K mass to 12K)

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So, you are ok having three ship schematics that are totally usless?

I was in beta and it is pretty common knowledge thatmaking/buying a player-madeNovice-level ship (Scyk, Z95, and LD TIE)would bea waste of credits. Getting through the first four missions and gaining enough experiance to gain access to your tier one ships (Dunelizard, Y-Wing, and TIE Fighter) is easily done in under and hourwith the starter ship that is given to you.

Anyways, what is wrong with making those three great ships viable throughout a pilots career? All the other ships are just as valuable to a master pilot as they are when the certification is aquired. By your logic, shouldn't I then be required to trade in my Dunelizard and step up to a Kimogila, since it isa more massive ship with more hardpoints, despite the fact that it is less maneuverabeand less appealing to me than my Dunelizard. Then, I suppose, I should have to fly one of those ugly-assed Black Sun fighters since they are higher level and therefore obviously superior to the Hutt Fighters?

The ships are tailored to different styles of piloting; Light nimble fighters, Medium versitile interceptors, and Heavy lumbering bombers. Each stylehas its pros and its cons and each appeals to different kinds of pilots, only the Novice fighters have such a huge con (obsenely reduced mass) as to be totally unusable past 1/1/1/1. This means that people that normally prefer to fly the faster, more fragile ships are forced to use the versitle ships since their prefered style of ships quickly becomes obsolete.

As a Privateer and a light fighter pilot, I have toattain 2/1/1/1 (not really difficult) before I gain access to another Light fighter and it is absolutely horrible looking in my opinion, where as someone that prefers the versitle Dunelizard (tier one) or heavy Kimogila (tier two) can remain in those ships all the way to Master Pilot!

Giveingthe Scyk, Z95, and LD TIE30k masslimits will absolutely not make the Dunelizard (70k mass), Y-Wing(120k mass), and TIE Fighter (proposed 50k mass) obsolete. They will still have far more mass and more hardpoints and people will still find them more appealing than the smaller, more specialized fighters.Regardless, I feel that the TIE Fighters need the extramass. The disparity between those tier one ships ishuge.

Think about this: How many people have requested a player-made CDEF?

By the way, I am NOT asking that the freebie starter ships be given anymore "mass". They should certainly stay just as they are. I am only asking that player-made tier 0 ships be given the extra mass.

Message Edited by Aileili on 10-30-2004 02:48 AM

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Betatoxin wrote:

- Armor reinforcement panel Mark 2 consumes resources in the factory but does not produce any items. Not Confirmed

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Aileili wrote:

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Rolassk wrote:

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Aileili wrote:

All player crafted Novice ships (Scyk, Z95, Light Duty TIE) should have their maximum mass limits raised to 30k and the TIE Fighter's should be raised to 50k.

As its stands now, they are nearly worthless since it is just as easy to finish the tierone missions with the starter ship.

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I disagree.

The starter ships are just that starters. If you make them too powerful initially then the reverse of what you are hoping for will happen. Players will just skip over the Tier I and II ships until they hit Tier III.

Also the starter ship handed to you was intended to get you through the Tier I missions. That's why you need a player crafted one with a hyperdrive to move onto Tier II (meaning the life of your freebie is over with).

The advantage to having a crafted starter over the freebie, is for the hyperdrive capabilities, and you can equip it with shields, different style of gun, or add an ordinance. Using cert level 1 components on a starter chassis I hit the energy cap of the reactor, before the mass cap anyways.

The Tier I ships are more advantageous and don't need any modification IMHO either.

TIE Fighter has double the mass, and handles even better then the light duty (these things turn on a dime)
Y-Wing maybe sluggish and slow, but are a heavy fighter with lots of hitpoints and mass allowance

Dunelizzard is easily twice as good compared to the lowly Scyk.

I think the last mass tweak the DEVs gave to the starters beforebeta's end wasjust right (they went from 10K mass to 12K)

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So, you are ok having three ship schematics that are totally usless?

I was in beta and it is pretty common knowledge thatmaking/buying a player-madeNovice-level ship (Scyk, Z95, and LD TIE)would bea waste of credits. Getting through the first four missions and gaining enough experiance to gain access to your tier one ships (Dunelizard, Y-Wing, and TIE Fighter) is easily done in under and hourwith the starter ship that is given to you.
Yes I am... Like I said the starter ships are just that, starters. I'm not sure what you expect from them. You get the same version for free from the faction of your choice. The DEVs already stated in beta the 4 missions to get your flightsuit and the Tier I dutieswere all built around soloing them with the free ship.

Anyways, what is wrong with making those three great ships viable throughout a pilots career? All the other ships are just as valuable to a master pilot as they are when the certification is aquired. By your logic, shouldn't I then be required to trade in my Dunelizard and step up to a Kimogila, since it isa more massive ship with more hardpoints, despite the fact that it is less maneuverabeand less appealing to me than my Dunelizard. Then, I suppose, I should have to fly one of those ugly-assed Black Sun fighters since they are higher level and therefore obviously superior to the Hutt Fighters?
By my logic? What are you talking about? Because I pretty much said that starters are performing their roles, as desinged by the DEVELOPMENT team. All of the other chassis should have (and do) have longevity to them if you choose, I don't want that changed (I typed "The Tier I ships are more advantageous and don't need any modification IMHO either"). But I do think starters, should remain the system to learn flight controls and how to fly on. It's one of the reasons why repair costs are so cheap for them, they were not designed to reach master pilot with. Maybe you could read deeper into my words next time, instead of calling my logic flawed.

The ships are tailored to different styles of piloting; Light nimble fighters, Medium versitile interceptors, and Heavy lumbering bombers. Each stylehas its pros and its cons and each appeals to different kinds of pilots, only the Novice fighters have such a huge con (obsenely reduced mass) as to be totally unusable past 1/1/1/1. This means that people that normally prefer to fly the faster, more fragile ships are forced to use the versitle ships since their prefered style of ships quickly becomes obsolete.
No it doesn't mean they are forced to fly heavy ships, buttheir is a difference between starter and light fighter.
Imperial: TIE Fighter, TIE/In, TIE Interceptor, TIE Advancedall are light fighters
Neutral: Are a bit screwed with just having the Kihraxz (but if you want to use a light fighter there you go)
Rebel: A-Wing is not a light fighter but manuevers like one (the alliance didn't use light expendable craft [except for the Z-95 to TRAIN new pilots on], they used multi-role craft that could survive if isolated)

As a Privateer and a light fighter pilot, I have toattain 2/1/1/1 (not really difficult) before I gain access to another Light fighter and it is absolutely horrible looking in my opinion, where as someone that prefers the versitle Dunelizard (tier one) or heavy Kimogila (tier two) can remain in those ships all the way to Master Pilot!
Zoom into first person view, then you don't have to look at the ugly ship. Plus you get to play the style you want and like you said it's not really difficult to get there.

Giveingthe Scyk, Z95, and LD TIE30k masslimits will absolutely not make the Dunelizard (70k mass), Y-Wing(120k mass), and TIE Fighter (proposed 50k mass) obsolete. They will still have far more mass and more hardpoints and people will still find them more appealing than the smaller, more specialized fighters.Regardless, I feel that the TIE Fighters need the extramass. The disparity between those tier one ships ishuge.

Think about this: How many people have requested a player-made CDEF?
Haha! I was hoping you'd throw the CDEF argument in here. Well everything you just said you might as well throw out the window. Who wants a CDEF? Nobody. Why? It's a starter weapon, that no one questions to be better. If CDEFs were better then players would skip over the other weapons until later on. Which by reading your words is what you want. To use your Z-95, Scyk whatever up to near master pilot. You don't want to use a better light fighter because of it's looks?That's nonsense,if itallows you to play the truestyle you want.

By the way, I am NOT asking that the freebie starter ships be given anymore "mass". They should certainly stay just as they are. I am only asking that player-made tier 0 ships be given the extra mass.
Well you can't tinker with the freebie anyways so mass is 0 in a way. But why should a crafted version be an advanced version compared to the freebie? It is the same ship.

Personally I don't think they should have added the starter chassis to SW. The devsshould have known that some players would view this the wrong way and think, 'I can get one for free, or I can expend resource to make one, therefore it should be vastly better then the freebie'.

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Rolassk wrote:

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Aileili wrote:

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Rolassk wrote:

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Aileili wrote:

All player crafted Novice ships (Scyk, Z95, Light Duty TIE) should have their maximum mass limits raised to 30k and the TIE Fighter's should be raised to 50k.

As its stands now, they are nearly worthless since it is just as easy to finish the tierone missions with the starter ship.

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I disagree.

The starter ships are just that starters. If you make them too powerful initially then the reverse of what you are hoping for will happen. Players will just skip over the Tier I and II ships until they hit Tier III.

Also the starter ship handed to you was intended to get you through the Tier I missions. That's why you need a player crafted one with a hyperdrive to move onto Tier II (meaning the life of your freebie is over with).

The advantage to having a crafted starter over the freebie, is for the hyperdrive capabilities, and you can equip it with shields, different style of gun, or add an ordinance. Using cert level 1 components on a starter chassis I hit the energy cap of the reactor, before the mass cap anyways.

The Tier I ships are more advantageous and don't need any modification IMHO either.

TIE Fighter has double the mass, and handles even better then the light duty (these things turn on a dime)
Y-Wing maybe sluggish and slow, but are a heavy fighter with lots of hitpoints and mass allowance

Dunelizzard is easily twice as good compared to the lowly Scyk.

I think the last mass tweak the DEVs gave to the starters beforebeta's end wasjust right (they went from 10K mass to 12K)

---

So, you are ok having three ship schematics that are totally usless?

I was in beta and it is pretty common knowledge thatmaking/buying a player-madeNovice-level ship (Scyk, Z95, and LD TIE)would bea waste of credits. Getting through the first four missions and gaining enough experiance to gain access to your tier one ships (Dunelizard, Y-Wing, and TIE Fighter) is easily done in under and hourwith the starter ship that is given to you.
Yes I am... Like I said the starter ships are just that, starters. I'm not sure what you expect from them. You get the same version for free from the faction of your choice. The DEVs already stated in beta the 4 missions to get your flightsuit and the Tier I dutieswere all built around soloing them with the free ship.

Anyways, what is wrong with making those three great ships viable throughout a pilots career? All the other ships are just as valuable to a master pilot as they are when the certification is aquired. By your logic, shouldn't I then be required to trade in my Dunelizard and step up to a Kimogila, since it isa more massive ship with more hardpoints, despite the fact that it is less maneuverabeand less appealing to me than my Dunelizard. Then, I suppose, I should have to fly one of those ugly-assed Black Sun fighters since they are higher level and therefore obviously superior to the Hutt Fighters?
By my logic? What are you talking about? Because I pretty much said that starters are performing their roles, as desinged by the DEVELOPMENT team. All of the other chassis should have (and do) have longevity to them if you choose, I don't want that changed (I typed "The Tier I ships are more advantageous and don't need any modification IMHO either"). But I do think starters, should remain the system to learn flight controls and how to fly on. It's one of the reasons why repair costs are so cheap for them, they were not designed to reach master pilot with. Maybe you could read deeper into my words next time, instead of calling my logic flawed.

The ships are tailored to different styles of piloting; Light nimble fighters, Medium versitile interceptors, and Heavy lumbering bombers. Each stylehas its pros and its cons and each appeals to different kinds of pilots, only the Novice fighters have such a huge con (obsenely reduced mass) as to be totally unusable past 1/1/1/1. This means that people that normally prefer to fly the faster, more fragile ships are forced to use the versitle ships since their prefered style of ships quickly becomes obsolete.
No it doesn't mean they are forced to fly heavy ships, buttheir is a difference between starter and light fighter.
Imperial: TIE Fighter, TIE/In, TIE Interceptor, TIE Advancedall are light fighters
Neutral: Are a bit screwed with just having the Kihraxz (but if you want to use a light fighter there you go) Maybe this is my problem then, as I am a Privateer and feel pretty restricted.
Rebel: A-Wing is not a light fighter but manuevers like one (the alliance didn't use light expendable craft [except for the Z-95 to TRAIN new pilots on], they used multi-role craft that could survive if isolated)

As a Privateer and a light fighter pilot, I have toattain 2/1/1/1 (not really difficult) before I gain access to another Light fighter and it is absolutely horrible looking in my opinion, where as someone that prefers the versitle Dunelizard (tier one) or heavy Kimogila (tier two) can remain in those ships all the way to Master Pilot!
Zoom into first person view, then you don't have to look at the ugly ship. Plus you get to play the style you want and like you said it's not really difficult to get there.

Giveingthe Scyk, Z95, and LD TIE30k masslimits will absolutely not make the Dunelizard (70k mass), Y-Wing(120k mass), and TIE Fighter (proposed 50k mass) obsolete. They will still have far more mass and more hardpoints and people will still find them more appealing than the smaller, more specialized fighters.Regardless, I feel that the TIE Fighters need the extramass. The disparity between those tier one ships ishuge.

Think about this: How many people have requested a player-made CDEF?
Haha! I was hoping you'd throw the CDEF argument in here. Well everything you just said you might as well throw out the window. Who wants a CDEF? Nobody. That was my point. No one wants to use a CDEF. They never should have been a player craftable weapon. They are pathetic and disgarded just moments after starting a new character. We would have been better served by having them be soley freebie weapons or the CDEF should have been made a usefull weapon if player crafted. Why? It's a starter weapon, that no one questions to be better. If CDEFs were better then players would skip over the other weapons until later on. Which by reading your words is what you want. To use your Z-95, Scyk whatever up to near master pilot. You don't want to use a better light fighter because of it's looks?That's nonsense,if itallows you to play the truestyle you want.

By the way, I am NOT asking that the freebie starter ships be given anymore "mass". They should certainly stay just as they are. I am only asking that player-made tier 0 ships be given the extra mass.
Well you can't tinker with the freebie anyways so mass is 0 in a way.I understand that the freebie shipsessentially have 0 mass. I was just saying that they should not be improved while the player crafted ones would haveincreased mass, making them desirable ships to purchase. At the moment, anyone that actually buys a player-made tier 0 ships is wasting money that would be better put towards their teir 1 ship.But why should a crafted version be an advanced version compared to the freebie? It is the same ship. Yes, it is the same ship with a distinct style and look that has been relegated to oblivion due to its uselessness.

Personally I don't think they should have added the starter chassis to SW. The devsshould have known that some players would view this the wrong way and think, 'I can get one for free, or I can expend resource to make one, therefore it should be vastly better then the freebie'. This is why I think we are disaggreeing. I feel the exact same way, I just want the problem rectified while you are content to leave it be and move on to better ships.

I am assuming that you are a Rebel or Imperial Pilot. For them this is not such a pressing matter as they both get similar but better versions of the same tier 0 craft later in their career (Z95 to X-Wing and LD TIE to TIE Fighter). Privateers are not so lucky. We do not get a better version of the Scyk later in our career and if we like the look and feel of this original little craft we are out of luck.

So, if you disagree with what I've proposed in making the tier 0 ships more desirable, perhaps you would not be against us Privateers recieving a better version of our Scyk so that those of us that prefer its style and look can recieve the same consideration that the faction pilots got?

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Message Edited by LekoDroka on 10-31-2004 06:33 AM

Great list--I have some additional problems and data:

• Reverse Engineering - using a component analysis tool with 1 charge left can result in unpredictable behavior. However, most of the time the tool is destroyed along with the reverse engineered component. Sometimes it put the original components that were being reverse engineered into my inventory. Sometimes it only puts the final reverse engineered component in my inventory, but it doesn't let me name it. Sometimes it put the original components into a container that I'm standing near (no kidding--very strange).
  


• Component Names - ok, we all know that sometimes the name of a component can be truncated to the first word when a pilot removes the component from a ship--I have customers that have seen this on crafted and looted components. Worse though, these components are essentially rendered unusuable. They cannot be equipped to a ship, nor can they be reverse engineered.
  


• Ship Data - it would be great if we could see more data on a ship without having to buy it, obtain a deed, and use the management capability of the starship terminals. For example, it would be good to be able to see (from the schematics) that a ship can hold a pilot plus a gunner, how many weapons it can hold and which kind, and how about a picture (come on, these are supposed to be schematics).
  


• Resource Quality - I have observed that the quality of the resources going into crafting some items (most notably a chassis) makes little difference in the statistics pertaining to the final product. While this might be good in some respects, it restricts how shipwrights might distinguish themselves.
  


• Experimentation - in my opinion, experimentation makes little difference in the final product. Please don't flame me on this one, I am an experienced crafter and expect to be able to differentiate my products a little better than this profession allots us.
  


• Component Mass - this is my own perspective, but I have concerns about the mass of Mark IV and V components. Are these components strictly intended for big ships, like the Kimo and multi-player ships? Because the high mass of these components (even after experimenting exclusively on mass) indicates this. Worse, the description of many comonents misleads customers. I crafted Mark IV durasteel plating and observed a desscription that indicated that it would be useful for small starfighters, such as X-Wings and Z-95 Headhunters--the average mass of one of these plates is 12K and a Z-95 is lucky if it can hold 12K (withlots of experimentation on its mass).

That's all I can remember at the moment.

010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101Jagged' Fel
010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101"The Oppressor"
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