Shipwright Archive

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-Redux- wrote:

For those of you that are not aware, factories were supposed to have a 100 item per schematic limit, but a typo in the code made it a 1000 a long time ago. So I propose the following:

1. Make all schematics for all professions a 100 item limit except for components, food, and other consumables (like ammo, paint kits, etc) which will stay at 1000. The 100 item limit on durable goods will help keep monster crafters from dominating the market, but still allow the reasonable mass production of items.

2. Leave factory run time at 8 seconds per complexity point per item.

3. Create jobber npc's so that those that are lot crunched or don't want to mess with tending 10 factories can go to the jobber with a schematic and the resources, and place an order for a reasonable fee based on the cost of operating a factory for the given time of production. When you place the order you choose one of your vendors to have the finished order delivered to. When the order is done running, it is dropped on the vendor chosen in the stockroom. If you do not have a vendor, the finished product will be dropped on the bazaar terminal as available items in the npc city where the jobber is located. This system will also eliminate some server load because if the cost was similar, it is reasonable to assume many crafters would use the jobbers rather than maintain factories, thus many factories would come down so lots could be used for harvesting or storage.

So if anyone has any constructive suggestions or ideas on this, please post them as this is just an off the top of my head idea while I am bored at work. It might be good, it might be crap, but it is better than just whining and flaming.

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Pervel, I second your suggestion.

A focus thread would be good.

And regarding the conversion rate, the devs will decide. However, they might consider a ratio we suggest. If they decide, there should be force conversion.

Regards

Niacia

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Niacia wrote:
I believe some devs somewhere wrote, that the schematics were supposed to be for a run of 100 originally. Well, a mistake happened, was assigned low priority to fix. In the beginning there was a lot stuff a lot more important to fix, then schematic size.

Trouble is, after only a little time, it would have been perceived as a big nerv to fix that number.

So the devs decided, it was not worth the trouble.

Regards

Niacia

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I really doubt this. If it was meant to be 100 for all kinds of schematics, it would mean that you could only make 10 T21 rifles in a factory run for example.

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pervel wrote:

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Niacia wrote:
I believe some devs somewhere wrote, that the schematics were supposed to be for a run of 100 originally. Well, a mistake happened, was assigned low priority to fix. In the beginning there was a lot stuff a lot more important to fix, then schematic size.

Trouble is, after only a little time, it would have been perceived as a big nerv to fix that number.

So the devs decided, it was not worth the trouble.

Regards

Niacia

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I really doubt this. If it was meant to be 100 for all kinds of schematics, it would mean that you could only make 10 T21 rifles in a factory run for example.

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If this does proove anything, then it proves, that industrialist were not planed...

Anyway, if somebody still has a link to this post, sharing it with us would be apreciated.

Regards

Niacia

I believe some devs somewhere wrote, that the schematics were supposed to be for a run of 100 originally. Well, a mistake happened, was assigned low priority to fix. In the beginning there was a lot stuff a lot more important to fix, then schematic size.

Trouble is, after only a little time, it would have been perceived as a big nerv to fix that number.

So the devs decided, it was not worth the trouble.

Regards

Niacia

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-Redux- wrote:

Well, that was an interesting read.....

4) Be thankful that we have a correspondent and a voice. The Devs could very easily do away with correspondents and give us no access to them whatsoever.

Let's try to be a little less negative and inflamatory, and instead let's try to be more constructive. Offer up ideas. And when ideas are offered up, don't just flame them. Offer constructive criticism. Have an open mind.

Now, here is my idea for factory support that should help shipwrights, help the novice crafters, and help the economy. On the downside, the established big corporate crafters might be a little bummed, but in the long run should not be hurt too badly by it.

For those of you that are not aware, factories were supposed to have a 100 item per schematic limit, but a typo in the code made it a 1000 a long time ago. So I propose the following:

1. Make all schematics for all professions a 100 item limit except for components, food, and other consumables (like ammo, paint kits, etc) which will stay at 1000. The 100 item limit on durable goods will help keep monster crafters from dominating the market, but still allow the reasonable mass production of items.

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These aren't constructive, they're destructive. Honestly what rock have you crawled out from?

First of all, I do not have to be thankful for correspondents. The devs have scored a 2 out of 10 for their communication, even with ineffective correspondents. The only improvement we've seen is that they are recently better at communicating around bugs, and bugs only, still not design and gameplay issues.

Second of all, the devs have been operating in crisis mode since the jedi grind came out, and all due to a lot of bias around gameplay design on behalf of the dev leadership, and very poor project management. Thank goodness they're hiring new design leaders. Thank goodness.

As for factories, that's insane. Thats more of the dev design bias against INDUSTRY and CONVENIENCE and RESPECT FOR PLAYER's VALUED GAMING TIME that have crippled this game with BUSYWORK since the beginning and is LARGELY RESPONSIBLE for the design mess we're in today. NERTZ TO THAT.

100 items. Bah. The 1,000 item limit as it stands now is already a major inconvenience. Not because I want to flood the market, but because I want to do a lot of manufacturing in bulk so I don't have to scr#w with it all the time and want to go enjoy other elements of the game that we never seem to have time for because we're burried in BUSYWORK. NERTZ to 100 items.

There is no easy solution to the fact that a player starts today, vs. the player that's been playing for a year or more. The veteran will have the resources, the harvesters, the factories, the cash, the mods, the knowledge to prosper and flourish. The guild structure provides an easy way for new players to find support structures and to apprentice and partner with veteran players, the latter is often looking for such assistance as they're trying to work around things like 1,000 item counts on schematics and finding time for other elements of gameplay. Such nonsense. 100 items. OMG.

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Niacia wrote:

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pervel wrote:

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Niacia wrote:
I believe some devs somewhere wrote, that the schematics were supposed to be for a run of 100 originally.
*snip*

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I really doubt this. If it was meant to be 100 for all kinds of schematics, it would mean that you could only make 10 T21 rifles in a factory run for example.

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If this does proove anything, then it proves, that industrialist were not planed...
Anyway, if somebody still has a link to this post, sharing it with us would be apreciated.

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Sorry, left off the above quote and realized this message lost a lot of context witout it


Anyways, here is one of those threads that discussed the factory schematic count being 100 or 1000 items...

To Quote Holocron from September, 2003:

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This is an upcoming change on TC. The change was made because this is what schematics were always supposed to be limited to--there is a bug that lets you put in a value larger than 100 right now.

I see some negative reaction to this change. How impactful is it? What is a reasonable limit in your mind?

I'll state up front that there may be DB reasons why we don't want a huge number here, so I will have to check on whether changing it is feasible at all.

-Raph Koster
Chief Creative Officer,
Sony Online Entertainment


Also, ex-Creative Director of SWG

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Here is a link to the thread:

clicky

Message Edited by Flop on 11-29-2004 03:50 PM

Message Edited by Flop on 11-30-2004 09:43 PM

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GraySeven wrote:

styx66, I hate to say this, but we need increased factory support. I'm getting tired of going through 8 crafting steps to make one piece of SS Armor, or one Booster, or one of any component. I don't want to make runs of 1000 of them for crying out loud, but I'd like to be able to make a run of 50, put 10 on my vendor and not have 40 items littering my house.

Without the ability to make factory runs, people will forget about the Shipwrights and go with loot components. I got real tired of searching vendors for a Mark II Blaster and just started using loot items (before I went shipwright). I'm sorry, but we really need it, no matter what the poll said (and I didn't see the poll so I didn't get to vote).

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Another well-said example of crafting busywork. My houses are littered with parts that were excess this component and left overs of that component, and were too expensive to throw away. Good points all around.

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RedDestinyCC wrote:

100 items. Bah. The 1,000 item limit as it stands now is already a major inconvenience. Not because I want to flood the market, but because I want to do a lot of manufacturing in bulk so I don't have to scr#w with it all the time and want to go enjoy other elements of the game that we never seem to have time for because we're burried in BUSYWORK. NERTZ to 100 items.

Honestly, what makes you think, you are supposed to enjoy all aspects of the game at the same time?
I have a skill point limits, which makes it impossible for me, to enjoy many aspects of the game. This is a design decision, if I ever saw one. A design decision which I think is very inconvenient.

Unfortunately, it is also a necessary design decision, otherwise nobody would need a crafter at all.

Yes, you can go around this limit by playing more then one account. Or by playing on several servers...

Anyway, if you take away the time sinks, where would that leave me? I am a one account, single server player. My char is MDE, MSW and Master Artisan. There is not much I can do, additionally to crafting. Take away the time sinks, and there is not much of a game left for me.

So even while I might not be enjoying all time sinks, I see them as necessary...

Regarding your other comments, please watch you language. There is no need to slight either Styx or the devs. And if you want your points to be taken serious, it is also in your best interest not to offend those people who will decide on your ideas.

Regards

Niacia

Message Edited by Niacia on 11-30-2004 12:19 PM

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styx66 wrote:

No problem really, was really referring to the discussion about whether the poll was valid or whatever...

Maybe i should have had:

10) Is this poll a good idea?

If the majority said yes then...

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Niacia wrote:

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RedDestinyCC wrote:

100 items. Bah. The 1,000 item limit as it stands now is already a major inconvenience. Not because I want to flood the market, but because I want to do a lot of manufacturing in bulk so I don't have to scr#w with it all the time and want to go enjoy other elements of the game that we never seem to have time for because we're burried in BUSYWORK. NERTZ to 100 items.

Honestly, what makes you think, you are supposed to enjoy all aspects of the game at the same time?
I have a skill point limits, which makes it impossible for me, to enjoy many aspects of the game. This is a design decision, if I ever saw one. A design decision which I think is very inconvenient.

Unfortunately, it is also a necessary design decision, otherwise nobody would need a crafter at all.

Yes, you can go around this limit by playing more then one account. Or by playing on several servers...

Anyway, if you take away the time sinks, where would that leave me? I am a one account, single server player. My char is MDE, MSW and Master Artisan. There is not much I can do, additionally to crafting. Take away the time sinks, and there is not much of a game left for me.

So even while I might not be enjoying all time sinks, I see them as necessary...

Regarding your other comments, please watch you language. There is no need to slight either Styx or the devs. And if you want your points to be taken serious, it is also in your best interest not to offend those people who will decide on your ideas.

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Thanks for your even response. Refreshing. Regarding Styx, I don't know Styx, but I do know that I pay for a gaming experience that is reaching about 20% potential and 80% frustration, largely due to poor project management and project leadership, and poor design decisions based upon lead designer's bias, same lead designer that I hope, for the above mentioned reasons, is on their way out the door. Project management has been a disaster. Who can doubt that they haven't been in crisis mode since the jedi grind, and probably before that with players running around the planet on foot because the mounts and vehicle content did not launch? Slight the devs? It's a very honest and fair assessment. It is my wherewithall to rate their service and their product, and I have done so. I do not appreciate the state of the game that they have wrought, respectfully, and I, as a customer, expect them to change, rather than me quit. Fair enough.

As for Styx, I get very frustrated, given the above state of affairs, when players comply with the poor to mediocre elements of the game, and say things like:

"This is the way the devs wanted it, so we should accept it and suffer it." If someone sold you a car with a missing wheel, is that how'd you approach it? You'd drive off the lot on three wheels and a fender dragging on the road? Don't let them off that easy. You're all customers, and if its broke, ask that it be fixed. The game has been in a very sad state, for many reasons. You can say, "It's broke, fix it." Or you can offer suggestions for how to fix various things. I prefer the latter of the two. But by no means will I stand there and pay money to be frustrated by all this and say, "It's the way the devs wanted it." Makes me want to ...

nm