Shipwright Archive
Thread: An Observation Regarding Low Ballers and their Future as Shipwrights.
Demio_Olaron
Sun Nov 14, 2004 4:00 am
#53
Biggens77 wrote:im enjoying shipwright alot. i charge 10 cpu for chassis, which i do not keep my chassis vendor stocked. if someone wants it they have to ask me and i only make them when im sure somoene will buy it. prices per part are:mark 2 - 30kmark 3 - 75kmark 4 - 125kmark 5 - 225kmark 2 proton missle pack 11uses - 15kmark 3 packs 14 uses - 30kim sure people can find stuff cheaper on my server but let me just tell you im not hurting 1 bit. im happy with the profit im making on parts, although it is nothing like being a weaponsmithyou know i never realized how much i made on weapons till i started doin shipwright lol.
Imo, thats a tad too expensive m8. Im not a lowballer but not a highballer either:
My Prices:
---------------
Equipment:
Mark I/Light: 3k
Mark II/Mid-Grade: 7k
Mark III/Heavy: 14k
Mark IV/Advanced: 30k
Mark V/Experimental: Not Available Yet
---------------
New prices:
Chassis:
Novice 30k
Tier I: 90k (110k if good experimentation)
Tier II: 180k (240k if good experimentation)
Tier III: 380k (480k if good experimentation)
Tier IV: N/A Yet
Master: N/A Yet
---------------
SharkBoy007
Sun Nov 14, 2004 4:13 am
#54
CapnKate wrote:
I have no doubt you are correct, Tanks. In fact, even the people who are bankrolling their SW using something like Weaponsmith will eventually get tired of it cutting into their WS profits and either re-price or leave.
My concern, though, is where this leaves everyone else.
The low-balling is eductating the consumer to believe that lower prices are reasonable and the norm. They're getting used to finding ships at 2 cpu and lower. Now, fast-forward to the post-lowballing phase, we find some things to be likely:
-Fewer Shipwrights overall.
-Fewer SWs = more work for existing SWs.
-More work = more hassle
-More hassle = SW hikes prices Andthen there's theupcomingsolo group nerf, in which people will have even less credits.
I'm sure everyone gets the idea. this is why the 2cpu SWs bug me. We already have an unreasonable expectation amoung the consumer base that ships shouldn't cost this much. "What about newbs" and "Luke said 10K for a ship!" are already thrown around a ton. The low-cost SWs make this expectation worse... and when they go, I'm almost 100% sure the rest of us will have to raise prices as we get buried in orders. But that's they way it goes. It's just not going to be at all good for the profession in the long run, but what can you do?
What are you SWs planning on doing for that? Out of simple curiousity
Mox Shehalis
TomoRainer
Sun Nov 14, 2004 4:59 am
#55
I just bought a real nice survival knife. My wrists are getting pretty strong from all this crafting, but I think it'll be sharp enough to do the trick.
SLK
Sun Nov 14, 2004 5:17 am
#56
Im no a master yet, and I have made millions selling chassis for 4 cpu.
While it is only 1-3 cpu gain (thank god for 1,5 cpu sales) it enables me to do shipwright for free and make money while I do it, not by selling it afterwards.
And more importantly, I dont pump the cheap chassis out on the marked, I sell them to an established shipwright which again sells them for five. He gains, I gain, we all gain. And I dont have to grind at all, just have fun.
While it is only 1-3 cpu gain (thank god for 1,5 cpu sales) it enables me to do shipwright for free and make money while I do it, not by selling it afterwards.
And more importantly, I dont pump the cheap chassis out on the marked, I sell them to an established shipwright which again sells them for five. He gains, I gain, we all gain. And I dont have to grind at all, just have fun.
Shivash
Sun Nov 14, 2004 9:17 am
#57
Tanks wrote:...but we got 8 million profit, enough to last us for quite a while. In the end, perhaps its YOU who need to rethink.Well, 6-7 CPU is pretty low, but I am glad you are happy with your "8million" profit.Let me tell you how far that 8 million takes you.The other day, I ran into this person that was selling 996OQ, 980PE radioactive. She had 600K at 5CPU. That is 3 million there. While wondering around I saw this resource vendor that had really nice copper amazingly at 2CPU. Another million there. I needed power for my harvesters, found some at 1.5CPU. a million and a half.That is 5.5 million right off the bat. Then on top of that add harvester maintanance, etc., etc.What are you going to do when a good resource becomes available for sale at 5-6 CPU? I'd guess you'd have to pass on it. Heck, I have already seen the shipwright radioactive on a resource vendor at 5CPU. Most of the resources I am using, I could sell to Weaponsmiths at 10+CPU. On components, resources do make a big difference. On Chassis not as much, but the extra 2-3K mass I could get on a TIE-Interceptor could make the differenceof being able to put one more higher level components in it. The extra hitpoints mean one or two more deaths before the customer would have to replace his.People will pay premium for a great weapon over a cheap average one. It applies to Shipwrights as well.
Plonk a harvy on it?
Seriously I agree with the origonal poster 8mill is plenty of cash. If you see a good resource spawn just plant harvies on it. I rarely buy resources, mine it all. This is both for my chef business and my SW business.
00over0
Sun Nov 14, 2004 9:43 am
#58
It seems that many if not all of those who constantly harp on low prices as being evil are completely reliant on purchasing their resources.
There's this thing called vertical integration--it means, for example, that you supply your own raw materials. Is it more work? Yes. Is it more fun? Often. Does it mean you have more control (that is, more profit or more ability to lower prices in a competitive market) over your product? Absolutely.
It's your choice to engage in only one tier of your profession, or to engage more fully. It's not others' fault because they want to do more and have the ability to have lower prices. That's a choice you made and continue to make everytime you walk into some overpriced resource shop so that you can spend 5cpu for ore that doesn't have a single stat over 500--or even ore with every stat above 900 for 500cpu.
You also don't have to have a vendor--you could just craft ships and let someone with merchant sell it all for you. Hell, they could even handle custom orders for you--just give them a checklist of questions and options.That would give you even more reason to whine,complain, and cry about people undercutting your prices.
To paraphrase a comment above--what exactly are you going to do with 100 billion in-game credits? You can't take it with you.
Tanks
Sun Nov 14, 2004 10:15 am
#59
It seems that many if not all of those who constantly harp on low prices as being evil are completely reliant on purchasing their resources.
There's this thing called vertical integration--it means, for example, that you supply your own raw materials. Is it more work? Yes. Is it more fun? Often. Does it mean you have more control (that is, more profit or more ability to lower prices in a competitive market) over your product? Absolutely.
I have 14 harvesters on the F. Silicastic Ore on Dath as the spawn was very good on my server. A 998 CO decent OQ Copper spawned on Dant I have 42 Harvesters on it. I have 9 harvesters on very nice Lube Oil. I have 18 harvesters on Steel. I have 9 harvesters on Ore. I go through survey droids like candy 
.
.I tend to strip mine as good resources come by. However, even then you still need to buy resources if you want to make the best of the best. Also, do not forget that chassis eat a lot of resources. I have probably used close to3 million units of Steel or more since release on chassis alone.
I can compete with lower prices, but why should I sell completed product for less than what I could sell resources to a WS. My pricing is determined by the turnover rate of my components vendor.
Message Edited by Tanks on 11-14-2004 09:54 AM
Rolassk
Sun Nov 14, 2004 11:14 am
#60
ExcaliburCH wrote:
I just got a tell from a customers who was asking me, what I charge for my TIER 2 ships. I told him 190k. That is a 6CPU price plus 10k for the running to find resources and the time to craft and advertising. So there is not much win with that price.
His answer was very short and also painful. He asked me, if I am aware, that most of the Shipwrighter sell their TIER2 ships for 75k.
Good god. 75k.. that is a 2 CPU price. Either they use very low quality resources for their chassis or they make a lost of around 120k each ship they sell.
I already bought some very nice Ore and it cost me 720k for 200k. Now I'm close to be blank. If I can't sell any ship chassis soon, I will be in some serious troubles. Don't get me wrong. I don't wanna complain here. But those cheap price are destroying the market and taking out the fun of the serious shipwrighters.
The question is, what can we do against it? Can we really sit it out until all those wanna be's have no more money or resources?
I mean, I wouldn't have been able to get up to TIER3 chassis, if not a friend helped me out with a huge amount of resources for me.
The answer is yes, of course you can sit it out. Read my example at the bottom of page #2. If this customer is askingyou for a chassis then obviously they were not able to find oneat the 2CPU price. A lot of the time players hear from a friend or guildie that they got this or that for some cheap price, and suddenly it becomes what most crafters are charging.
If you are struggling for chassis sales, then you need to lower prices (try 5CPU flat) and cut your costs. Mine as much resources on your own as possible, and get any friends or guildmates to harvest for you at a low CPU cost. I have a few of my friends and guildies mining fulltime for me atm and paying them 2CPU. Sure they could get 4+CPU for the resources, but they know I will buy all their stock right out of the hoppers, no need for merchant skills/vendor stocking/forum advertising etc...
*Kettemoor
ravingbantha
Sun Nov 14, 2004 4:37 pm
#61
Well I've been thinking alot about these lowballers and this problem we seem to be having with them... and hear's m thought now....
I'm glad they are their.... they take the time to go out gather the resources put together a ship and put them all in 1 convient place for me to go and pick them up add 8cpu to the price and open another vendor in anther location. Do you people realize how much time that saves me? I mean it's really nice of them to do this for me.
When I made my crafter I named him Tim-the-Toolman because I thought it would be funny, never really occured to me how much that would stick in people minds.... I would imagine that played a large part in my sucess as an architect.... well that and a fully stocked structure and furniture vendor... People know my name and will come to my vendor's fur architect needs and see my ship vendor's and buy from me there...it's a matter of convience.
So thank you lowballers.... kepp up the hard work, so I have more time to have fun, and do the things I want to do.
4Bidden
Sun Nov 14, 2004 5:44 pm
#62
Tanks wrote:
I am almost out of my mid level "Inert Petrochems" and did not want to use my stacks of 998OQ Lube Oils to make starter ships so I went in search of my favorite resource vendor.
First I stopped at another SW shop and saw that he had 10 Y-Wings at 20K, so I bought them all. My immediate problem solved. I headed out to the resource vendor. This guy prior to JTL had 9 resource vendors each vendor having multiple pages of resources. Steel, ore, iron, alum, and inert chem vendors were picked clean. I did see some decent Known Inert Gasses and bought a million units for 3CPU. I looked at his energy vendor and saw that he had several 100K stacks of the SW radioactive at 5CPU. But, no other radiavtive at all since the last time I was there and bought all of his stock.
This brings me to my point. The people that are lowballing right now are going to be running out of resources soon. The replacement cost of these resources is going to be more than the price they are charging for their ships and components.
I have a feeling eventually, once the novelty wears off, people that do not have a commitment to the profession are going to leave or go out of business. There are just too many resources involved to be able to mine it all and still be able to sell at a discount rate. Either that or they are not going to be using optional components, which will be their failure as Pilots begin to start looking at stats. Experience tells me that people will pay premium for a good weapon then buy a cheap average weapon, this translates into SW profession as well.
So, I'd say that the lowballing will go away soon.
You need to keep a couple things in mind.. Sure, there will be lowballers.. But, you have to look at this thru the eyes of a resource seller. Most of them have no problem selling at 2cpu. I know one thats made almost 200 million in the last 3 weeks selling resources to shipwrights at 2cpu. Simply put, if you can afford to sell resources at a cheaper price, they have the right to do so.... Another thing you have to keep in mind is that the bulk of those resources are being used to make ship chassis. Most shipwrights know that you dont need high quality resources to make a pretty good chassis.. So why bother buying high quality stuff? The bulk of the lowballers will leave, but the lowballers who can affordit will most likely remain...
Ackew
Sun Nov 14, 2004 6:26 pm
#63
Well I price my components on based on how much i could sell the resources for if i put them on my vendor plus a bit more for the time and effort put in to make all this stuff by hand. I'm by no means the cheapest on the server probley far from itand i just can't keep the vendors stocked. If you want the best you have to pay for it. Its that simple. I have i think maybe 2 people out of hunderds complain about the prices and each time i went to the shop the told me was much cheaper then mine and found the compnents where FAR worse than mine. One told me about this shop that sold for a third of what i charged and when i had a look my mk2 stuff was 50% better than thier mk4. I use the best resources i have gathered in a years playing plus what i have manage to get since i started s/w. If i sold at prices in those other shops i would not of been able to buy any of the nice reources i have got or even still be in busines. I do this mainly for fun but if i want to KEEP doing it HAVE to make a GOOD profit so i can buy what resources i need. Even with guildhelp trying to get the 8 different JTL reources and everything else is hard work. There is room in the market for people who want to use low end items at low prices as there is in all markets. But if you want HIGH quality prodcuts you have to PAY to get them.
Tanks
Sun Nov 14, 2004 7:54 pm
#64
...went to the shop the told me was much cheaper then mine and found the compnents where FAR worse than mine. One told me about this shop that sold for a third of what i charged and when i had a look my mk2 stuff was 50% better than thier mk4.
Yep, my experience exactly. Today I went to this shop that had "great" selection and prices. His Mark 4 reactors were 60K compared to mine that are 75K, however my MK3 reactors which sell for 45K have 1.3K more regeneration rate. So, it is a good deal if someone is looking at prices only, but in reality they are getting ripped off.
I think part of what we need to do also is to educate the Pilots. Components with optional sub-components will cost more and of course provide better performance as well. That is already happening somewhat, I have people coming to my shop and buying stuff for their friends as well, once they see the stats.
Biggens77
Sun Nov 14, 2004 10:05 pm
#65
Demio_Olaron wrote:
Imo, thats a tad too expensive m8. Im not a lowballer but not a highballer either:
My Prices:
---------------
Equipment:
Mark I/Light: 3k
Mark II/Mid-Grade: 7k
Mark III/Heavy: 14k
Mark IV/Advanced: 30k
Mark V/Experimental: Not Available Yet
---------------
New prices:
Chassis:
Novice 30k
Tier I: 90k (110k if good experimentation)
Tier II: 180k (240k if good experimentation)
Tier III: 380k (480k if good experimentation)
Tier IV: N/A Yet
Master: N/A Yet
---------------
not to be rude but you know you can sell the resrources on there own for more then your selling them in ship parts. and if you dont consider those pricing low balling lol im scared to see what you consider low balling.
granted im charging a high price but to make a mark 4 item it takes 3750 resources. 2500 for the final product and 1250 for the enhancemet that goes in it. to me its just to many resrouces to just give the item away but thats just me and alot of my fun is to see how many credits i can make.
but thats just me and alot of my fun is to see how many credits i can make.