Shipwright Archive
Thread: For those having trouble deciding on a price
loonatik wrote:
The resources are worth more than 1cpu period. If you can sale said resource for Xcpu, then to use it in your ship you need to make Xcpu or you are losing money PERIOD.
So again, the original post is dead wrong.
Message Edited by loonatik on 10-28-2004 12:57 PM
You cannot lose something you do not have! I disagree with the word "loss". Maybe opportunity "loss". But I do agree with you in concept.
Now, in your scenario, is it a good business idea to sell these resources in the form of an X-Wing at half the price you could selling the resources in raw form on the market? Heck NO, it's bad business! But SWG long ago stopped making sense economically due to exploits and combat imbalances.
Until crafters are forced to work within real world economics (I wish I had access to the Dantooine mission terminals in real life and could kill 5 Cavemen and a Totem Pole every 30 seconds
), they do not need to run a smart business. The Janta's can bankroll them, as well as all that duped money floating around in the economy causing certain loot kit parts for ugly sculptures and tablesto besoldat3 million. Stake out the Chunkers just outside Dearic Starport and loot 2 or 3 adhesives a night. Then you sell those on auctionand never have to worry about running a smart business
. Make those duped credits in the economy work for you, take them out of the economy by buying resources at 300 CPU and selling finished product at 1 CPU
Hope SOE does not look at this and realize price controls set low would have this effect.
And before some smart guy or gal comes along and says adhesives and such are not that valuable anymore; yes, I know. Something else will come along, it always does. Heck, I have even seen an increase in demand for Holos again.
Message Edited by jrscott on 10-28-2004 04:24 PM
jrscott wrote:
loonatik wrote:
The resources are worth more than 1cpu period. If you can sale said resource for Xcpu, then to use it in your ship you need to make Xcpu or you are losing money PERIOD.
So again, the original post is dead wrong.
Message Edited by loonatik on 10-28-2004 12:57 PM
You cannot lose something you do not have! I disagree with the word "loss". Maybe opportunity "loss". But I do agree with you in concept.
I cant tell if you are agreeing here or not, in your statement below it sounds like you are disagreeing. But above it sounds like you are agreeing.... *scratches head*
Now, in your scenario, is it a good business idea to sell these resources in the form of an X-Wing at half the price you could selling the resources in raw form on the market? Heck NO, it's bad business! But SWG long ago stopped making sense economically due to exploits and combat imbalances.
I did not say to sell it for half price. I said the exact opposite, the other guy is saying to sell it for less than what you could sale the resources for.
Until crafters are forced to work within real world economics (I wish I had access to the Dantooine mission terminals in real life and could kill 5 Cavemen and a Totem Pole every 30 seconds :smileyhappy
And before some smart guy or gal comes along and says adhesives and such are not that valuable anymore; yes, I know. Something else will come along, it always does. Heck, I have even seen an increase in demand for Holos again.
I cant figure out how exactly what you are saying here applies to what everyone is talking about in this thread.
Message Edited by loonatik on 10-28-2004 01:27 PM
Message Edited by loonatik on 10-28-2004 01:29 PM
loonatik wrote:
jrscott wrote:
loonatik wrote:
The resources are worth more than 1cpu period. If you can sale said resource for Xcpu, then to use it in your ship you need to make Xcpu or you are losing money PERIOD.
So again, the original post is dead wrong.
Message Edited by loonatik on 10-28-2004 12:57 PM
You cannot lose something you do not have! I disagree with the word "loss". Maybe opportunity "loss". But I do agree with you in concept.
I cant tell if you are agreeing here or not, in your statement below it sounds like you are disagreeing from what im saying.. But here it sounds like you are agreeing....
Now, in your scenario, is it a good business idea to sell these resources in the form of an X-Wing at half the price you could selling the resources in raw form on the market? Heck NO, it's bad business! But SWG long ago stopped making sense economically due to exploits and combat imbalances.
Who said anything about selling it half price? I said the exact opposite, this other guy is saying to sell it for less than what you could sale the resources for.
Until crafters are forced to work within real world economics (I wish I had access to the Dantooine mission terminals in real life and could kill 5 Cavemen and a Totem Pole every 30 seconds :smileyhappy
And before some smart guy or gal comes along and says adhesives and such are not that valuable anymore; yes, I know. Something else will come along, it always does. Heck, I have even seen an increase in demand for Holos again.
I havent the faintest clue what you are trying to say here....
Some how I knew you were going to say that. Bottom line: You CANNOT lose what you do not have in your possession. PERIOD.
But I know what you are getting at: It is stupid to sell things for any fraction of the price you could have gotten selling the resources separately (which is not what you do, but othershave suggested). And those of us who want to run an intelligent business cannot, because of competition from people who flood the market with parts and products sold at cost and not at value.
And the whole ranting paragraph thing is an explanation as to why you cannot apply sound economics to SWG. The economy is unsound and that paragraph is an explanation why. The gist of the last paragraph is that there is WAY TOO MUCH MONEY in SWG's economy, and that money is created by the mindless Janta mission grinding in the Solo Groups and by the illegal credit dupes that have occurred due to flaws in the software. When people have too much money they do not have to run their businesses intelligently at all. And those of us who want to cannot as a result.
I hope that helps.
Sevardos wrote:
Not to split hairs, but a loss is a loss whether it's through a direct action or not fulfilling it's full potential.
(A) I bought something at 10K ... I sell it for 5K. I have 5K less credits than I did before.
This is a loss. Very good.
(B) I found something free and I sold it on the bazaar for 5K. However, if I sold it through an auction, I could have gotten 10K for it. I have 5K less credits than I could have had.
This is not a loss. You cannot write this off on your taxes. Try it! The IRS will have microscopes stuck in places you do not want to have things stuck in.
Stupidity, Naivety, and/or Ignorance<> Loss
Man, I feel like I am arguing that Black is really Black here and nobody gets it!
Brilyn wrote:
< In the books, the accountingit would show as 2 months of revenue (full price) and then a second line with $20 contra.Contra is then subtracted from revenue. You neverreceived the $20 (was never yours as you put it) but it's still considered a loss; i.e., unrealized revenue / earnings. >
And this is why I have nothing to do with accountancy, where I can help it.
Not to belittle your work, but the above is the work of fantasy, and is general nonsense.
It's all well and good to say "but that's how it works in RL". I know. I understand that.
And it's still gibberish and nonsense.
Which is why *I* want nothing to do with it in *my* game time.
Conversely, I think this thread has demonstrated admirably the 2 main thoughts on pricing, and as such I consider the discussion to be excellent.
jrscott wrote:
Sevardos wrote:
Not to split hairs, but a loss is a loss whether it's through a direct action or not fulfilling it's full potential.
(A) I bought something at 10K ... I sell it for 5K. I have 5K less credits than I did before.
This is a loss. Very good.
(B) I found something free and I sold it on the bazaar for 5K. However, if I sold it through an auction, I could have gotten 10K for it. I have 5K less credits than I could have had.
This is not a loss. You cannot write this off on your taxes. Try it! The IRS will have microscopes stuck in places you do not want to have things stuck in.
Stupidity, Naivety, and/or Ignorance<> Loss
Man, I feel like I am arguing that Black is really Black here and nobody gets it!
Bah ... I'm getting off this train after this only because I couldn't resist. I said nothing about taxes and doesn't change the fact that unrealized earnings isstill aloss. And with all due respect, I'm actually the one argueing that Black is really Black - you're argueing the counter.
Real-life example: When a cellular phone carrier does a promotion giving $10/month off for the next2 months, the accounting on it is treated as a loss. The $20 promotionis treated as "Revenue Contra" (loss of revenue).
In the books, the accountingit would show as 2 months of revenue (full price) and then a second line with $20 contra.Contra is then subtracted from revenue. You neverreceived the $20 (was never yours as you put it) but it's still considered a loss; i.e., unrealized revenue / earnings.
Bah. No more real life comparisons. I feel like I'm giving a lecture I'm done on this topic ... please don't reel me back in LOL
Sevardos wrote:
Real-life example: When a cellular phone carrier does a promotion giving $10/month off for the next2 months, the accounting on it is treated as a loss. The $20 promotionis treated as "Revenue Contra" (loss of revenue).
In the books, the accountingit would show as 2 months of revenue (full price) and then a second line with $20 contra.Contra is then subtracted from revenue. You neverreceived the $20 (was never yours as you put it) but it's still considered a loss; i.e., unrealized revenue / earnings.
Bah. No more real life comparisons. I feel like I'm giving a lecture
Im fine with my one million creds that took me 6 months to make But DE DOES require a lot of master artisan components AND named resources/stuff from factory crates.
BillyBobthe50th wrote:
I infact, am LOSING money doing my profession. But I dont care
In short, high prices are ok, but if you wanna be a respected shipwright, think out FAIR prices, when you are selling a Y-wing blueprint to someone, dont think "what amount of resources did I use on this, and should I charge 100cpu?" think "what would I want to pay for on this?" Because many of you who are wanting to put stuff up for millions of credits obviously arent even giving a thought to "would I actually want to pay THIS MUCH for something that can only do so little?"
I say this respectfully, not as a flame: If there were a lot of people like you, it would be impossible for any pure crafters to get any enjoyment from the game because they could not run a competitive business at all. If all of their credits come from their business and everybody else is selling at a loss, they will not sell anything and have no way to make any money. And this statement is coming from a Weaponsmith who undercuts just about all of the other Weaponsmiths on his server while delivering the same amount of "Bang". I know I frustrate them, and I am making a profit, albeit slim compared to theirs. The only thing that keeps them in business is the fact I do not advertise (SPAM) and that there are not another 100 of me out there. Just imagine 100 people on the same server selling great weapons at a loss!
I admire your desire to be "FAIR" to the consumer, but just because JohnDoe wants his own Death Star and does not want to pay more than 1000 credits for it does not make 1000 credits "FAIR". You have to consider what is "FAIR" tothecrafteras well.
You are part of a community - the server you play on. If everybody takes your advice, the economy of your server will deflate, and money will become scarce for those who are not high level fighters. Which means less weapons, less armor, less medicines, less everything. Then there will be less fun. The continued survival of your server's economy and therefore your enjoyment of the game depends on people not removing excessive amounts of wealth from a delicate system by buying high and selling low.