Shipwright Archive
Thread: Shipwright Profession Issues August 2005
xtxShifter
Tue May 31, 2005 9:10 pm
#27
To me, the lack of FSXP conversion is a top three issue. I'm wasting millions and millions and millions of xp just keeping my vendors stocked...
The least I could ask for is a response from the devs as to why we were excluded.
The least I could ask for is a response from the devs as to why we were excluded.
Message Edited by xtxShifter on 05-31-2005 09:11 PM
Okidievi
Tue May 31, 2005 11:53 pm
#28
Or just make it so that you can't go to deep space unless your ship is 100%.
IIscandar wrote:
Using Deep Space to minimize decay to starship components during repairs
- There are many confirmed cases of Pilots PVP or PVE'ing in sectors other than deep space, travelling to deep space and using that sector to repair with. Rather than the full decay that would take place on these components with a full repair at a regular station, these pilots are only receiving the decay from 25% repairs so they can then travel to deep space to repair the rest. While no decay for deep spacewas a solution to encourage pvp, it does not seem that it was intended to bypass the normal repair process for combat in other sectors. This is having an effect on business from Master pilots who can go much longer than intended without replacing components due to repair decay.
- Suggestion 1: Modify deep space to only allow damage from death in that system to be repaired without decay. Any damage a ship has when it enters deep space will not be repairable without decay.
- Suggestion 2: Modify deep space so that only damage from PVP is repairable with no decay upon death. This would still allow damage from pvp deaths in other sectors to be repaired, but would not allow PVE death damage to be repaired without decay.
Message Edited by IIscandar on 05-24-2005 10:34 AM
IIscandar
Wed Jun 01, 2005 9:09 am
#29
Or just make it so that you can't go to deep space unless your ship is 100%.
Interesting suggestion.Pretty simple at leastit seems so.
Yalton
Thu Jun 02, 2005 6:37 pm
#31
Arands wrote:Unable to view or work on another player’s ship
- Shipwrights often find themselves in an instructional role when working with players. Many questions must be asked to determine what a pilot is actually able to put in a ship. Mass of chassis, mass in use, mass of parts to be replaced, max reactor generation, energy drain of components to be replaced are some of the items you must know. If a pilot just wants to see if you can do better than their current components a complete rundown of the pilot’s parts must be done in chat. Mass and other calculations must be done out of game on paper or in a spreadsheet.
- Suggestion 1: Create an interface between the shipwright and the pilot’s datapad view of the starship or a trade type window that lists chassis & component stats. At a minimum this would allow a shipwright to view the current stats of a pilot’s starship and components. Many calculations would still need to be done by hand, but this would eliminate the 100 questions session just to determine the starting point.
- Suggestion 2: Create a starship customization terminal that can be placed in a shipwrights shop. The starship still resides at starport but this special terminal is an interface with the starport’s ship terminal. It would allow a pilot to grant a shipwright the ability to customize the ship much as an ID window works. The shipwright can remove and replace components and when both are satisfied, the pilot pays and they both accept the changes. Any components removed are transferred to the pilot’s inventory. If the pilot’s inventory is too full, the transaction will not be allowed to complete. In the event of this failure, the added items return to the shipwright’s inventory.
- Suggestion 3: Create a Starship Hanger structure. This special building would allow a player’s ship to be worked on in a traditional monkey wrench kind of way. This might be difficult with the larger ships such as YT-1300, but could be possible. It would need to be the size of a generic guildhall with both floors above ground and opened as one giant space. Not only would this allow the same interaction with the pilot’s ship as a terminal, but would also grant both the shipwright and the pilot the ability to see the ship on the ground. This would also allow for a very starwarsy walk around your ship experience. It could also provide a preview of texture kits, and or paint kits. These buildings could have a high storage limit (500 – 1000) items and a “master shipwright” only requirement. When a shipwright is present in their hanger, they can register on the planetary map as open for business. Players could see right away where to go to have their ships customized.
While #3 would probably be the hardest to implement, I think it would definitely bring SWG the closest to the 'real' experience as you can get. Free movement around your X-wing, seeing how it changes when a different blaster or engine is put on? I just don't know WHERE they would fit. They'd easily be the hardest thing to place, out of any building. But, sithfire! It'd be worth it.
There is a way to work around this. The hagar is underground. Only a pad and a small building next to it are above ground. Sort of like the launch pads you see for the shuttles at certain Imp posts. Ince it would be underground there wouldn't be a need for a huge foot print on level ground.
I do have one other comment on a player structure. Make it a city structure with a limit of 200 items. Placed my a Master SW and a limit of one per city, certed at the same box as the shuttleport in politician. It shouldn't take any lots from the MSW that places it but it ahs a cost in tax money for a week like other public structures.
If there isn't some way to limit the number, either foot print on the ground or number limit per planet then it is less likely to be implemented.
Another way to get a hangar since hangars would be near starports, and there is a "no build area" around cties is to make a special door on the starports MSWs can go in. This door would lead to their own hangar. The door would be like the doors that lead to diffrent instances on Kash for the new wookie content. They can invite people in their group in with them also. This would be an instanced hangar so there wouldn't be a limited number and you would be right next to where you're client base is going to be using the ships.
Edited for my poor English skills.
Message Edited by Yalton on 06-02-2005 05:42 PM
Message Edited by Yalton on 06-02-2005 05:45 PM
Shierre
Fri Jun 03, 2005 1:23 am
#32
For me the asteroid resources as has been mentioned is prolly a big one. As was also said but atleast I am another voice for it is fs conversion. After all we arent reaping space xp, its crafting resource costing xp just like every other class.
I dont find Tapes to be to big a concern. I would love to get some but as a Sullustan I am already 15 experiment points on engines/ weapons and booster.. If I am right it would take a human to get anywhere near me to need +25 engine weapons and booster exp tapes aswell as completing the FS experiment line and I think then they would be a 14 point experimenter so I am still ahead from race alone so it all balances out.
And again I would love to see the Hangar inplemented. There is no way on earth that a 500 - 800 item holding Hangar with room to land a ship in is going to be 3 - 4 lots... I am expecting and happy to lose 7 or 8 to this building. If possible and practical why not allow for smaller hangars? Need say 3-4 lots, only allows the landing of tier 1 or 2 ships to work on and holds 200 -400 items or something... Maybe not those exact numbers but you get my drift. I like the idea of being open for business, maybe have it so POB ships just cant go there from size but maybe 2 or 3 fighters, Person contacts you while you are open, you agree they can come and go to admin part that allows landing. Instead of speeding out to you they can travel withthe option to land at hanger you just cleared them for. Would love to see landing your own ship there as a private landing area and even allowing only 1 or 2 other people on admin to land there as well. Not sure how practical but would be good if you ask me.
Jagged-F3l
Fri Jun 03, 2005 4:28 am
#33
Yalton wrote:
Arands wrote:
Unable to view or work on another player’s ship
- Shipwrights often find themselves in an instructional role when working with players. Many questions must be asked to determine what a pilot is actually able to put in a ship. Mass of chassis, mass in use, mass of parts to be replaced, max reactor generation, energy drain of components to be replaced are some of the items you must know. If a pilot just wants to see if you can do better than their current components a complete rundown of the pilot’s parts must be done in chat. Mass and other calculations must be done out of game on paper or in a spreadsheet.
- Suggestion 1: Create an interface between the shipwright and the pilot’s datapad view of the starship or a trade type window that lists chassis & component stats. At a minimum this would allow a shipwright to view the current stats of a pilot’s starship and components. Many calculations would still need to be done by hand, but this would eliminate the 100 questions session just to determine the starting point.
- Suggestion 2: Create a starship customization terminal that can be placed in a shipwrights shop. The starship still resides at starport but this special terminal is an interface with the starport’s ship terminal. It would allow a pilot to grant a shipwright the ability to customize the ship much as an ID window works. The shipwright can remove and replace components and when both are satisfied, the pilot pays and they both accept the changes. Any components removed are transferred to the pilot’s inventory. If the pilot’s inventory is too full, the transaction will not be allowed to complete. In the event of this failure, the added items return to the shipwright’s inventory.
- Suggestion 3: Create a Starship Hanger structure. This special building would allow a player’s ship to be worked on in a traditional monkey wrench kind of way. This might be difficult with the larger ships such as YT-1300, but could be possible. It would need to be the size of a generic guildhall with both floors above ground and opened as one giant space. Not only would this allow the same interaction with the pilot’s ship as a terminal, but would also grant both the shipwright and the pilot the ability to see the ship on the ground. This would also allow for a very starwarsy walk around your ship experience. It could also provide a preview of texture kits, and or paint kits. These buildings could have a high storage limit (500 – 1000) items and a “master shipwright” only requirement. When a shipwright is present in their hanger, they can register on the planetary map as open for business. Players could see right away where to go to have their ships customized.
While #3 would probably be the hardest to implement, I think it would definitely bring SWG the closest to the 'real' experience as you can get. Free movement around your X-wing, seeing how it changes when a different blaster or engine is put on? I just don't know WHERE they would fit. They'd easily be the hardest thing to place, out of any building. But, sithfire! It'd be worth it.
There is a way to work around this. The hagar is underground. Only a pad and a small building next to it are above ground. Sort of like the launch pads you see for the shuttles at certain Imp posts. Ince it would be underground there wouldn't be a need for a huge foot print on level ground.
I do have one other comment on a player structure. Make it a city structure with a limit of 200 items. Placed my a Master SW and a limit of one per city, certed at the same box as the shuttleport in politician. It shouldn't take any lots from the MSW that places it but it ahs a cost in tax money for a week like other public structures.
If there isn't some way to limit the number, either foot print on the ground or number limit per planet then it is less likely to be implemented.
Another way to get a hangar since hangars would be near starports, and there is a "no build area" around cties is to make a special door on the starports MSWs can go in. This door would lead to their own hangar. The door would be like the doors that lead to diffrent instances on Kash for the new wookie content. They can invite people in their group in with them also. This would be an instanced hangar so there wouldn't be a limited number and you would be right next to where you're client base is going to be using the ships.
Edited for my poor English skills.
Message Edited by Yalton on 06-02-200505:42 PM
Message Edited by Yalton on 06-02-200505:45 PM
I like the idea of implementing this underground. However, I have to seriously disagree with many of the other points you have made here:
- What is the rationale for making the structure a player-city structure?I personally I am not a citizen of a player-city, and have no desire to be. I always had a problem with the fact that medical centers were made player-city structures. However, there was a some rationale behind that one--the number of doctors on any given server is quite high. How many shipwrights do you think there are on each server? From what I have experienced, there can't be too many.
- Why limit the number of items so severely? IIscander is doing us a favor here. Shipwrights require a huge number of resources. I personally have no less than 700 stacks of resources at any given time. Shipwrights have limited factory support, and thus our finished products do not come from a crate. If you're willing to use the lots, I don't see why we should haven't a comparable maximum item count.
- I think it should require lots. I don't know of any shipwrights that can actually survive without an alt. My shipwright uses his lots for factories and a single house--giving him storage and a storefront. My alt uses his lots for harvesters.
- Again, I think there is no rationale for limiting the footprint and worrying about a proliferation of these structures. I would love to see the percentage of characters on each server that currently hold the title of Master Shipwright. I am willing to bet that this number is not only lower than any other profession, but relatively small compared to any other profession.
IIscandar
Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:41 am
#34
Shierre wrote:Instead of speeding out to you they can travel withthe option to land at hanger you just cleared them for. Would love to see landing your own ship there as a private landing area and even allowing only 1 or 2 other people on admin to land there as well. Not sure how practical but would be good if you ask me.
*playername* requests permission to land at your hanger. (grant) (deny)
*playername* grants you permission to land at *players hanger name*
or maybe you just add *playername* to the landing list.
I do think the biggest challenge to the idea of the hanger is going to be the landing of player ships there. This would make the shipwright hanger different from any other crafting professions "special building". We are talking about a shuttleport with a house attached in essence.
If the shipwright has to be present for someone to be able to land, then that means the planetary map has to be updated for landing sites every time a master shipwright would register at the hanger. I know shuttleports are setup to minimize the need to update possible destinations on the travel terminal. What if a shipwright decides one day that they want to move? Lets say the first part of the day they were open for business on one planet. They close up shop (drop of the planetary map), re-deed the hanger, fly to another planet, setup and register. Now they are on the map of another planet as a landing site all in the span of an hour lets say. Same goes for moving on the same planet. I don't know how complex the part of the code that makes that happen is. But it does seem excessive due to the current state of planetary shuttle travel.
That brings the idea of a player city only structure that replaces the shuttleport to mind. It sounds like a much more easy to code solution than a place anywhere shuttleport/hanger. The other professions that have special buildings must place them in a city, so why not shipwright? This fits the spacebarn concept. In my perfect world, the city could be any size and have a shipwright hanger.
I don't think having 5 shipwright hangers in one city would be a good idea, that's 5 places you could land at in one city. I don't like the idea of limiting the number of hangers in a city, but it might be needed.
I totally dig being able to place your hanger in the wilds away from any city and being able to land there. Brings to mind little secret settlements only landable by being on the "landing list". Great for pirates or smugglers or others who wish to keep a low profile. But why should we get a special building placeable anywhere, while other professions are still tied to a city? Kinda tough to justify that one.
In the end, perhaps including this in the list of player city buildings would not only be inline with other special profession buildings, but encourage the growth of commerce in player cities.
Great discussion going on in this thread, lets keep it going.
Message Edited by IIscandar on 06-03-2005 09:42 AM
Yalton
Fri Jun 03, 2005 8:50 pm
#35
I like the idea of implementing this underground. However, I have to seriously disagree with many of the other points you have made here:
What is the rationale for making the structure a player-city structure? I personally I am not a citizen of a player-city, and have no desire to be. I always had a problem with the fact that medical centers were made player-city structures. However, there was a some rationale behind that one--the number of doctors on any given server is quite high. How many shipwrights do you think there are on each server? From what I have experienced, there can't be too many.
Why limit the number of items so severely? IIscander is doing us a favor here. Shipwrights require a huge number of resources. I personally have no less than 700 stacks of resources at any given time. Shipwrights have limited factory support, and thus our finished products do not come from a crate. If you're willing to use the lots, I don't see why we should haven't a comparable maximum item count.
I think it should require lots. I don't know of any shipwrights that can actually survive without an alt. My shipwright uses his lots for factories and a single house--giving him storage and a storefront. My alt uses his lots for harvesters.
Again, I think there is no rationale for limiting the footprint and worrying about a proliferation of these structures. I would love to see the percentage of characters on each server that currently hold the title of Master Shipwright. I am willing to bet that this number is not only lower than any other profession, but relatively small compared to any other profession.
Jagged' Fel, Chilstra, Master TKA / Master CM / Imperial Lt. Colonel I
Soontir' Fel, Chilastra, Master Shipwright / Master DE/ Imperial Warrant Officer II
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
IIscandar went over one of the biggest thing is that we want a special building. Special buildings go with cities from what the Devs have shown us. A realistic reason would be support. A building of this size would need more then a house next to it. Also a city/town would grow around a place peaople could land at any way. That is what happened with Train stations and other choke points for travel.
The items is limited because I think it should be a city structure and take NO lots. So we wouldn't lose any lots and would get some storage. More item storage that we don't pay lots for is a good thing. Like multiple PoBs.
There are MSWs that survive with out alts. They are usualy from a supporting guild or network of crafters. Also taking master Merchant gives you 4,000 item storage so a true pure crafter with master merchant cna have 1 tent for sales and the storage vendor, a droid for crafting, and nine lots for harvestors. That gives the person 4,210 items storage figuring they ahve a crafting station and an item storage module in teh droid. If they have four more droids each with a storage module then they can ahve 40 more items. That is before we start to count at least two PoBs for 150 more items. So we are looking 4,400 item storage. I know most things can't be factory made. In fact I like the fact things can't be mass produced to some extent. Some thing that people go through fast should be. Armor comes to mind. Chasis should never be mass produced except droid fighters. We don't make those... might be cool if we could with the help of MDEs... hmmm...
Now the footprint reduction is to make it easier to place them. If the footprint is to large it will be almost impossible to palce them and lead to hem really only being on certain planets in certain areas.
IIscandar,
I don't think they will let us make them places we can land at from space any time soon. They would have to change more code then just making it show on a plantary map. There is also all the landing code and then the problem you mentioned. Making them a place you could "travel" to with you're ship might be a good thing though...
There is one thing I ahve noticed since CU hit. There are a lot mroe small MSWs then ever before. I don't think they are going to impact the SW economy because they won't gather the good resources and don't have the dedication. BUT, the number has increased, so these hangars might pop up every where if there isn't a limit. The respec for crafters was good and bad....
What is the rationale for making the structure a player-city structure? I personally I am not a citizen of a player-city, and have no desire to be. I always had a problem with the fact that medical centers were made player-city structures. However, there was a some rationale behind that one--the number of doctors on any given server is quite high. How many shipwrights do you think there are on each server? From what I have experienced, there can't be too many.
Why limit the number of items so severely? IIscander is doing us a favor here. Shipwrights require a huge number of resources. I personally have no less than 700 stacks of resources at any given time. Shipwrights have limited factory support, and thus our finished products do not come from a crate. If you're willing to use the lots, I don't see why we should haven't a comparable maximum item count.
I think it should require lots. I don't know of any shipwrights that can actually survive without an alt. My shipwright uses his lots for factories and a single house--giving him storage and a storefront. My alt uses his lots for harvesters.
Again, I think there is no rationale for limiting the footprint and worrying about a proliferation of these structures. I would love to see the percentage of characters on each server that currently hold the title of Master Shipwright. I am willing to bet that this number is not only lower than any other profession, but relatively small compared to any other profession.
Jagged' Fel, Chilstra, Master TKA / Master CM / Imperial Lt. Colonel I
Soontir' Fel, Chilastra, Master Shipwright / Master DE/ Imperial Warrant Officer II
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
IIscandar went over one of the biggest thing is that we want a special building. Special buildings go with cities from what the Devs have shown us. A realistic reason would be support. A building of this size would need more then a house next to it. Also a city/town would grow around a place peaople could land at any way. That is what happened with Train stations and other choke points for travel.
The items is limited because I think it should be a city structure and take NO lots. So we wouldn't lose any lots and would get some storage. More item storage that we don't pay lots for is a good thing. Like multiple PoBs.
There are MSWs that survive with out alts. They are usualy from a supporting guild or network of crafters. Also taking master Merchant gives you 4,000 item storage so a true pure crafter with master merchant cna have 1 tent for sales and the storage vendor, a droid for crafting, and nine lots for harvestors. That gives the person 4,210 items storage figuring they ahve a crafting station and an item storage module in teh droid. If they have four more droids each with a storage module then they can ahve 40 more items. That is before we start to count at least two PoBs for 150 more items. So we are looking 4,400 item storage. I know most things can't be factory made. In fact I like the fact things can't be mass produced to some extent. Some thing that people go through fast should be. Armor comes to mind. Chasis should never be mass produced except droid fighters. We don't make those... might be cool if we could with the help of MDEs... hmmm...
Now the footprint reduction is to make it easier to place them. If the footprint is to large it will be almost impossible to palce them and lead to hem really only being on certain planets in certain areas.
IIscandar,
I don't think they will let us make them places we can land at from space any time soon. They would have to change more code then just making it show on a plantary map. There is also all the landing code and then the problem you mentioned. Making them a place you could "travel" to with you're ship might be a good thing though...
There is one thing I ahve noticed since CU hit. There are a lot mroe small MSWs then ever before. I don't think they are going to impact the SW economy because they won't gather the good resources and don't have the dedication. BUT, the number has increased, so these hangars might pop up every where if there isn't a limit. The respec for crafters was good and bad....
Tammerlane
Wed Jun 08, 2005 9:11 am
#36
I think it's fine that SW skill tapes are starting to appear, but they should be dropping in space only. We shouldn't have to be ground combat elites to try to get skill tapes. We're shipwrights, nearly all of us pilots as well, our tapes should come from taking down big targets in space and/or quest rewards in space.
Kilarny
Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:23 am
#37
Increase the number of asteroid chunks that can spawn from the current 3-4 to 30-60. This would allow more efficient mass mining operations to take place.
MDaniel
Fri Jun 10, 2005 7:35 am
#38
Skill tapes: make them space loot instead of ground loot or make them "surpises" during RE like the Firespray disks? They don't need to be the +25s that the ground combatants find, but a +10 or +15 would be a nice surprise to find during a RE. I don't see why this would be difficult to implement, as the skill tapes exist and the RE method of dropping disks already exists. An alternative could be RE dropping a part that could be used in a personal crafting tool to improve characteristics of the crafting tool (like a skill tape does to clothing). The better the quality of the crafting tool, the more upgrade parts that can be attached to it. Or, make it so that a crafting tool can accept two or three stackable skill tapes. Then SWs could have item specific crafting tools that create certain types of items better. Like a crafting tool that has two +20 weapons system experimentation tapes/discs installed in it from RE loot. I just find the possiblities of either skill tapes or uber subcomponents coming during the RE process to be an untouched resource / avenue.
Just trying to think outside of the box here.
Just trying to think outside of the box here.
Yivvits
Fri Jun 10, 2005 10:48 am
#39
MDaniel wrote:
Skill tapes: make them space loot instead of ground loot or make them "surpises" during RE like the Firespray disks? They don't need to be the +25s that the ground combatants find, but a +10 or +15 would be a nice surprise to find during a RE. I don't see why this would be difficult to implement, as the skill tapes exist and the RE method of dropping disks already exists. An alternative could be RE dropping a part that could be used in a personal crafting tool to improve characteristics of the crafting tool (like a skill tape does to clothing). The better the quality of the crafting tool, the more upgrade parts that can be attached to it. Or, make it so that a crafting tool can accept two or three stackable skill tapes. Then SWs could have item specific crafting tools that create certain types of items better. Like a crafting tool that has two +20 weapons system experimentation tapes/discs installed in it from RE loot. I just find the possiblities of either skill tapes or uber subcomponents coming during the RE process to be an untouched resource / avenue.
Just trying to think outside of the box here.
AGREED
These really SHOULD be space loot. I've heard the tape are dropping off things like dark jedi knight npc's, which, have a cl of like 280. I'm so sick of seeing this stuff sell for millions in the forums when they are primarily looted by people who could care less about what it is. Of course, I say this only because I'll never have the funds to purchase them :-p I mean, it just sickens me to see people tossing around 50mil like its nothing. Being a very respected shipwright shouldn't mean you have to be a rich shipwright.
Yes - make them space loot. These +25 tapes should be from very high end kills, like the star destroyer 
Message Edited by Yivvits on 06-10-2005 12:51 PM