Shipwright Archive
Thread: Shipwright pricing. Is this the new Architect problem?
Architects got their pricing screwed up early because it was an easy class to master, it just took a ton of resources. So people who wanted to master architect would offer to build anything if people brought them the resources. By the time everyone was done leveling, a large percentage of the players already had the buildings they wanted.
Shipwrights are getting chassis pricing problems because of the number of resources that goes into it, the poor xp per resource spent, and the fact that chassis are the only effective way to level. It takes so many resources that no one is willing to do this in practice mode. So many people levelling are producing more chassis than they have demand for. The quick and easy solution is to just sell them cheap to pay for the resources you spent.
I think what we'll end up with is something like vehicles. Most people will continue to sell cheap, because thats how the market is. Some of us will sell for what we consider reasonable prices (I'm not going to sell a ship for less than I would sell the resources to make it). Over time it may come back in line. Components should keep some value though.
Val_Hunter wrote:
Its is similar to the architect problem, but for a slightly different reason.
Architects got their pricing screwed up early because it was an easy class to master, it just took a ton of resources. So people who wanted to master architect would offer to build anything if people brought them the resources. By the time everyone was done leveling, a large percentage of the players already had the buildings they wanted.
Shipwrights are getting chassis pricing problems because of the number of resources that goes into it, the poor xp per resource spent, and the fact that chassis are the only effective way to level. It takes so many resources that no one is willing to do this in practice mode. So many people levelling are producing more chassis than they have demand for. The quick and easy solution is to just sell them cheap to pay for the resources you spent.
I think what we'll end up with is something like vehicles. Most people will continue to sell cheap, because thats how the market is. Some of us will sell for what we consider reasonable prices (I'm not going to sell a ship for less than I would sell the resources to make it). Over time it may come back in line. Components should keep some value though.
I really hope so. This is getting insane in some regards. I watched as someone sold a YT chassis for 100k flat. The fact it takes 160k of various resources means that either the SW was mining his own or taking a serious hit on it. Even at 1cpu he lost money.
Tyranus
PetaByte32 wrote:
czarnp wrote:
I agree with that, hopefully things will settle and I would be happy to meet with you and try to get the other shipwrights on Kauri to at least meet to talk about the state of the profession. I was a little bummed to see Firespray chassis on our trade forum going for 6M buyout, I thought that was too cheap. However that was just my opinion, I bought one and somebody else bought the other. I can't figure how an AV-21 can bring about 2 Million and a Firespray only 6 million?
Yah that surprises me too. I see a suit of RIS going for 30+ million and a Firespray is worth only 6? Something very wrong with oureconomy.
But we have no one to blameexcept ourselves. I was one of the idiots standing in Coronet selling holos for 5 million a piece. I didnt help matters for sure.
Maybe in a few weeks we can sort something out. Just need to let the rush die out.
Tyranus
The reason RIS goes for 30 million is because it requires several extremely rare components to make: Peko Peko Albatross feathers, GDK scales, Gurk King hides and Woolamander Bones. These components are difficult to obtain and extremely expensive to buy.
Firespray schematics are rare, but after the first week most servers already have at least one. How long was it before any server had a fullsuit of RIS armor? And Firesprays don't require any special subcomponents (that I'm aware of). As RE'ing really takes off I think Firesprays will become relatively common.
In an MMORPG you can't just think of things in terms of what the object is or what it does or the resources required to make it. You have to think in terms of rarity. A small house is only around 8K, but a Scythe blade with a good slice can go for 1 million or more.
I've said it before, and I'm saying it again: there is absolutely NO future in ship chassis. Experimentation and resource quality makes little difference, shipwright grinders are churning them out like crazy flooding the market, they have a huge sticker shock effect given the number of resources involved and customers are already becoming accustomed to low prices on them due to grinders and under-bidders. Ship chassis are basically perceived as generic commodities, almost like houses and factories. Their only saving grace is decay, but even with decay the replacement rate will likely be low enough that you won't be able get a decentcpu for them.
The long-term profit potential in shipwright lies in consumables and certain crafted components. Also, RE'ingwill be a big money maker for anyone willing to go through the trouble of matching upwards of 10components to make the best possible item.Any weaponsmith can tell you that people will paylots of money to have the best possible item.
Slim Vargo, Corbantis
Message Edited by EdOWar on 11-08-2004 01:20 PM
EdOWar wrote:
The reason RIS goes for 30 million is because it requires several extremely rare components to make: Peko Peko Albatross feathers, GDK scales, Gurk King hides and Woolamander Bones. These components are difficult to obtain and extremely expensive to buy.
Not really. I see them offered in trade forums and by people shouting in cities all the time.
Firespray schematics are rare, but after the first week most servers already have at least one. How long was it before any server had a fullsuit of RIS armor? And Firesprays don't require any special subcomponents (that I'm aware of). As RE'ing really takes off I think Firesprays will become relatively common.
The main reason it was so long before we saw RIS was because it was bugged.
In an MMORPG you can't just think of things in terms of what the object is or what it does or the resources required to make it. You have to think in terms of rarity. A small house is only around 8K, but a Scythe blade with a good slice can go for 1 million or more.
I've said it before, and I'm saying it again: there is absolutely NO future in ship chassis. Experimentation and resource quality makes little difference, shipwright grinders are churning them out like crazy flooding the market, they have a huge sticker shock effect given the number of resources involved and customers are already becoming accustomed to low prices on them due to grinders and under-bidders. Ship chassis are basically perceived as generic commodities, almost like houses and factories. Their only saving grace is decay, but even with decay the replacement will likely be low enough that you won't be able get a decentcpu for them.
The long-term profit potential in shipwright lies in consumables and certain crafted components. Also, RE'ingwill be a big money maker for anyone willing to go through the trouble of matching upwards of 10components to make the best possible item.Any weaponsmith can tell you that people will paylots of money to have the best possible item.
Slim Vargo, Corbantis
The biggest thing for me is the loot I had to RE. I tried to sell a firespray once. Didnt work out. Partly because I had a hidden reservation but I didnt know about that at the time or how it would affect people. The other bigger reason was because of the price. They couldnt understand that I was also including the price of my time to RE loot and the costs to get the loot to RE. In fact the general consensus was it was my choice to RE loot to get the disks and they shouldnt have to pay for it. I went through 5k pieces of loot for my first set of disks. At an average cost of 3k each you can figure out the final total. All I was looking for was 30 million for my time and money spent. Didnt matter I spent 1.6 million on resources, 15 million on loot to RE or spent 3 days of constant REing to get it. For the most part I was flamed like mad for it.
Seems ok for an AS to sell a suit of RIS at a huge cost, even if it was his choice to get the items required. Perfectly fine for a WS to sell a krayt weapon at a high price even it was his choice to get the KTs. But I better not even think to do that myself. Sorry not trying to lay a guilt trip on you dude. Just still cuts me when I think about that.
People value things differently. I value my time. I pay to play like everyone else and I am going to make money on my time. But now I have a different cause. These guys wanted to flame my auction? Fine. Lets see how much they laugh when everyone in my guild has a firespray and we got a dozen more sitting around.
Tyranus
Happymob wrote:
rols_cerentz wrote:
For me, charging 2.5 CPU for a chassis is quite a profit margin, in that I always mine my own resources. I see no reason to ever pay for resources. In fact, I have no issues with obtaining even more resources then I should be able to, due to my guild mining for me.And if you sold your resources for 4 cpu, you'd make even more money, with far less mouse clicking. I am a resource vendor and not a shipwright, but what I do know is I can't can't keep quality shipwright resources on my vendor at my normal quality resource prices (4 to 9 cpu) and I can't keep steel on my vendor at 10 cpu right now.
I'm not going to tell anyone how they should price product as people have very different motivations in this game. Not everyone is trying to maximize profit. But you specifically mention profit margin and I can assure you, you can make more money by not turning those resources into starships at the price you are selling them for.
That's really great for you to be able to sell resources alone for 4 to 10 CPU. If you are playing SWG to role-play a commodities broker or member of a mining consortium/guild or what-have-you, that's really awesome.
I am playing Star Wars Galaxies, since day one, to be able to be a shipwright. I recreated, as close as I could, a character that I played in the old West End Games d6 Star Wars Pencil and Paper game to be able to do so.
If I was looking for massive profits, I would make my toon into a Master Doctor, or mine and sell resources and even rent out lots from other player's accounts to be able to maximise the amount of resources I could mine and sell. However, I am not playing SWG to play that role.
PetaByte32 wrote:
The biggest thing for me is the loot I had to RE. I tried to sell a firespray once. Didnt work out. Partly because I had a hidden reservation but I didnt know about that at the time or how it would affect people. The other bigger reason was because of the price. They couldnt understand that I was also including the price of my time to RE loot and the costs to get the loot to RE. In fact the general consensus was it was my choice to RE loot to get the disks and they shouldnt have to pay for it. I went through 5k pieces of loot for my first set of disks. At an average cost of 3k each you can figure out the final total. All I was looking for was 30 million for my time and money spent. Didnt matter I spent 1.6 million on resources, 15 million on loot to RE or spent 3 days of constant REing to get it. For the most part I was flamed like mad for it.
You have a good point about this. Unfortunately REing components seems to be a 'hidden' cost that most non-shipwrights are not aware of. The value of krayt tissues and GDK scalesis pretty well known and established, which is one reason why people are willing to pay a lot of money for those items. Most people aren't aware of the amount of REing required to get all the fragments for a Firespray schematic.
Perhaps trying to farm Firespray disk fragments isn't the best approach--i.e. RE components for resale, eventually you'll get enough fragments to make the schematic. Then sell the Firesprays for what you can get;they'dbe almost all gravy because you would have already made your money backselling the RE'd components.
Seems ok for an AS to sell a suit of RIS at a huge cost, even if it was his choice to get the items required. Perfectly fine for a WS to sell a krayt weapon at a high price even it was his choice to get the KTs. But I better not even think to do that myself. Sorry not trying to lay a guilt trip on you dude. Just still cuts me when I think about that.
In my experience, people usually acquire their own RIS components and then bring it to a RIS certified AS to have them made. Because of this, they are aware of how much work goes into making a suit of RIS.
Krayt tissues sell for ridiculous amounts, sometimes for more than the final weapon can be sold for. Again, many people buying tissues are bringing them to their favorite WS to be made into weapons.Ultimately most Krayt weapons won't fetch millions unless they get high damage slice on it--i.e. a large factor of luck is involved (though, admittedly,not unlike getting Firespray disks).
People value things differently. I value my time. I pay to play like everyone else and I am going to make money on my time. But now I have a different cause. These guys wanted to flame my auction? Fine. Lets see how much they laugh when everyone in my guild has a firespray and we got a dozen more sitting around.
Tyranus
EdOWar wrote:
PetaByte32 wrote:
The biggest thing for me is the loot I had to RE. I tried to sell a firespray once. Didnt work out. Partly because I had a hidden reservation but I didnt know about that at the time or how it would affect people. The other bigger reason was because of the price. They couldnt understand that I was also including the price of my time to RE loot and the costs to get the loot to RE. In fact the general consensus was it was my choice to RE loot to get the disks and they shouldnt have to pay for it. I went through 5k pieces of loot for my first set of disks. At an average cost of 3k each you can figure out the final total. All I was looking for was 30 million for my time and money spent. Didnt matter I spent 1.6 million on resources, 15 million on loot to RE or spent 3 days of constant REing to get it. For the most part I was flamed like mad for it.
You have a good point about this. Unfortunately REing components seems to be a 'hidden' cost that most non-shipwrights are not aware of. The value of krayt tissues and GDK scalesis pretty well known and established, which is one reason why people are willing to pay a lot of money for those items. Most people aren't aware of the amount of REing required to get all the fragments for a Firespray schematic.
Perhaps trying to farm Firespray disk fragments isn't the best approach--i.e. RE components for resale, eventually you'll get enough fragments to make the schematic. Then sell the Firesprays for what you can get;they'dbe almost all gravy because you would have already made your money backselling the RE'd components.
Seems ok for an AS to sell a suit of RIS at a huge cost, even if it was his choice to get the items required. Perfectly fine for a WS to sell a krayt weapon at a high price even it was his choice to get the KTs. But I better not even think to do that myself. Sorry not trying to lay a guilt trip on you dude. Just still cuts me when I think about that.
In my experience, people usually acquire their own RIS components and then bring it to a RIS certified AS to have them made. Because of this, they are aware of how much work goes into making a suit of RIS.
Krayt tissues sell for ridiculous amounts, sometimes for more than the final weapon can be sold for. Again, many people buying tissues are bringing them to their favorite WS to be made into weapons.Ultimately most Krayt weapons won't fetch millions unless they get high damage slice on it--i.e. a large factor of luck is involved (though, admittedly,not unlike getting Firespray disks).
People value things differently. I value my time. I pay to play like everyone else and I am going to make money on my time. But now I have a different cause. These guys wanted to flame my auction? Fine. Lets see how much they laugh when everyone in my guild has a firespray and we got a dozen more sitting around.
Tyranus
I agree that your time has value, and that you shouldreceive fair compensationfor the time you spent. But it cannot be denied that there's already at least one Firespray schematic on almost every server. Maybe this is just a product of established players having the resources to buy up enough loot to farm the disks quickly. But it would be understandable ifthis created the impression that Firesprays aren't necessarily all that rare.
Slim Vargo, Corbantis
I know for a fact there is at least 3 on my server. I found 3. Muahahahahahahahahahaha. Kidding. Seriously I did find3 so far. One more disk 6/8 and I got another one. Heck three more disk 6/8s and I got 6 total. I got at least 3 of everything else.
Tyranus
Val_Hunter wrote:
Its is similar to the architect problem, but for a slightly different reason.
Architects got their pricing screwed up early because it was an easy class to master, it just took a ton of resources. So people who wanted to master architect would offer to build anything if people brought them the resources. By the time everyone was done leveling, a large percentage of the players already had the buildings they wanted.
Shipwrights are getting chassis pricing problems because of the number of resources that goes into it, the poor xp per resource spent, and the fact that chassis are the only effective way to level. It takes so many resources that no one is willing to do this in practice mode. So many people levelling are producing more chassis than they have demand for. The quick and easy solution is to just sell them cheap to pay for the resources you spent.
I think what we'll end up with is something like vehicles. Most people will continue to sell cheap, because thats how the market is. Some of us will sell for what we consider reasonable prices (I'm not going to sell a ship for less than I would sell the resources to make it). Over time it may come back in line. Components should keep some value though.
Well normally I would agree, except hear's my situation. I got JTL on the friday after it went live, I mastered it 2 hours after I logged on, and took all the chassis I made and put them on my vendor at 10cpu.... I had to work saturday and didn't get home till midnight. When I logged in I had made 14 million that day. At that point I was and still am convienced that Shipwright's will sell chassis at 10cpu... as far as deeds being resold, I wouldn't worry about it too much... people die too much up there to make the ships really worth buying used.