Shipwright Archive
Thread: CDEF weapons in space
rols_cerentz wrote:
I can agree with you here. I would like to have the option to fly a Z-95 for significantly longer then just the first handful of missions, until I was ready for the Y-Wing.
Not just because the Z-95 is a very manuerverable ship, but because I like to have options regarding what I am going to go flying around in and have those options be viable throughout my pilot career.
As it stands now, I am likely going to continue flying the Y-Wing or Longprobe well into Mastering the profession, because few people will continue to do so and it does have enough mass to be useful in large space combat missions going after the Star Destroyer and similar. Especially since it is more manuerverable then the B-Wing, from what I understand.
However, it would be nice to see some more use out of the Z-95.
Actually, speaking as an A-Wing/B-Wing/Nova pilot, The B-Wing is roughly as agile as the Y-Wing. The tricky part to handling it is that it takes a little longer to stop turning, and doesn't accelerate/decelerate as quickly as the Y. But this just takes some practice to compensate for. I find the much heavier firepower makes up for it.
Granted, the ground game needs to follow up in the Combat Upgrade ...
but as a privateer, I like to fly medium fighters. Light and heavy just aren't my style.
I stuck with the Dunelizard for ages, and now I'm enjoying my Ixiyen :-)
They suit me as a pilot, and I probably won't change - in fact I may even go back to the Dunelizard after the mass increase :-D
So - to change your original perspective and relate it to armour, there is no "composite" of space IMO, there are diferent style ships suited to diferent playstyles, and aside from a bit more tweaking, it looks like it works pretty well to me ....
BadKarma777 wrote:From a practical standpoint, one would think that certain weapons (whether cannonical in reference or created specifically for SWG) would have been exceedingly common. Generally, the availability of such weapons would be attributed to the fact that they are less costly to produce and thus, buy.
What I find interesting here is that this is simply not the case in SWG at all in its current incarnation. You hardly see CDEF or even DL44's excpet in the hands of complete newbie's because, well, they're lower tier weapons. Never mind the fact that there should (from a realism standpoint) be more of these weapons in circulation than just about any other.
Of course, you can extend that same analogy to just about any weapon type you want, but I like pistols and you get the point I'm sure. ;-)
Additionally, there was a clause in one of the old designs for the Combat Balance (and yes, at that time it was 'Balance' - this was nearly a full year ago) that was going to address this by introducing a full range of every weapon type at every certification level - including master. I remember this because I was excited by it - getting to be a master pistoleer AND use a DL44... that didn't SUCK?! RIGHT ON!
Now, I have no idea if this is still in the plans for the Combat Upgrade, but that's really not the point. The point is, we have an opportunity to do something right now that will prevent this exact same thing from happening in space!
As it stands, I've yet to hyper into Kessel or Deep Space because, well, I've yet to reach a point in my piloting career wherein I can outfit my ship with the level of gear I know I'll need in order to stay competitive.
Having qualified that (and feel free to correct me if I'm worng) I simply can't imagine very many players warping into a PvP zone in a novice level (not 'starter - novice level) ship.
This bothers me for two reasons.
1) From a sheer standpoint of realism and pragmatism, the novice level ships (TIE light duty, Scyk and Z-95) represent the least in terms of resources, time invested and cost to the buyer.
Because of this, it seems to me that you'd be seeing more of these types of fighters than any others in the space lanes - but that will most assuredly not be the case... if my suspicions are correct, it already isn't.
2) It places an arbitrary and unecessary limitation on a player's choice of what craft to fly and what best suits there play style. It essentially breaks down to a war, not of skill, but of who has the better ship and equipment loadout.
Ships and equipment should, no doubt, play a role in deciding the outcome of a confrontation, but not to the extent to which it would between, say, a Z-95 and a TIE Opressor.
What needs to be done? IMO the player crafted versions of the starter ships need a mass increase - nothing major mind you, just bump them to about 20-25K mass.
Why? Because this increase would allow players to, at the very least outfit these ships with 'decent' shields and weapons that will allow them to remain competitive!
You may be asking yourself, "why would anyone want to fly these ships?"
I'll tell you - for one they represent the most manuverable ships in the game (for the most part) with faster roll and yaw potential than any of the higher tier ships. Speaking as a 'fast and light' kind of guy myself, the handling variables of these ships are highly desirable - though the current mass restrictions make them entirely impractical.
Additionally, making the novice tier (player crafted) ships slightly more viable could also create an additonal sink/ pool affect in the economy. No doubt, the wealthier pplayer/ characters might start using these as 'disposable' fighters, which in essence is what they are - to a degree.
I have one last bone to pick and then I'll quit - and this one is Privateer specific and focuses on (my obvious favorite ship) the Hutt Scyk.
Basically, it seems as though Rebels get higher overall mass, Imperials get better overall handling, and Privateers are somewhere in the middle (relax - that's just how I see it - I didn't say it was gospel =P )
That said, Privateers go through the same progression twice - light, medium and then heavy. That much is fine. What irks me is that while I have two viable choices between medium fighters and even heavies (yes, some players actually dig the Kimo), there's only 1 viable option for a light fighter - and it sure as heck isn't the Scyk.
Pardon me, but that bites!
I'll grant you that it's primarily aesthetic (barring those all important handling variables - which makes it more than an aesthetic argument) but I don't WANT a Blacksun Light fighter - I want a Scyk!
Lastly - do we, as privateers even HAVE a 1.0 speed modifer ship? I don't think we do - in fact, I'm fairly certain that the speed modifier for the Scyk is the same as the Dune Lizard (0.95) which is a grave injustice to a ship which equates to an engine with a seat.
So there you have it - give us tougher novice level ships. Give us more variety in a way that's viable and efficient. Up the mass on novice ships to 20 - 25K. Please don't let these ships become the CDEF weapons of space. =\
Zutono wrote:
One of my guildmates is using a Skyk Fighter at Tier 3. Of course, he's got all RE'd level 7 gear for low mass, quite impressive what he can do with that little mosquito
This is encouraging 
...
Though I myself have yet to find a shipwright cranking out 15K mass Scyks, I'm always looking.
Still, when I look at the raw numbers and imagine what I could do with 5K extra mass in that ship - ohhhh yeah bayabay! =P
BadKarma777 wrote:
Zutono wrote:One of my guildmates is using a Skyk Fighter at Tier 3. Of course, he's got all RE'd level 7 gear for low mass, quite impressive what he can do with that little mosquitoThis is encouraging
Though I myself have yet to find a shipwright cranking out 15K mass Scyks, I'm always looking.
Still, when I look at the raw numbers and imagine what I could do with 5K extra mass in that ship - ohhhh yeah bayabay! =P
5K extra mass? Ouch. I don't think I've made a single starter ship with less than 12K (And people do love the things-- my entire guild stuck to the 12K Zs I was building for them until 2111 or 2211, on account of they could cram even crafted L3 stuff into the Zs, which made them way superior to the standard Y. I'm betting some RE'd loot would take a good pilot much farther even than that-- but skill becomes a major issue to pulling it off, and... honestly, looking around, i don't think pilot skill is in huge supply, in general.)
TurboSith wrote:
Arkenor wrote:It would be nice if there were Advanced versions of some of the early ships that look the same, but had a significantly higher mass. The certifications for these would be higher up the tree. An advanced Z95 and Scyk with similar stats to the TIE/in would be fine by me.i have a feeling that we will see this in time... because if they dont... it will be a bunch of bwings and oppressors going at it in pvp... and how is that any different then everyone in compostite with a DoT pike... hopefully they implement.. i have faithMessage Edited by TurboSith on 11-12-2004 02:28 PM
Wrong. Have you ever flown a B-Wing? It handles extremely poorly. Not only does it turn slow, but when you get it turning it takes a few sec to get it to stop turning. You can not dogfight in a Bwing. A-Wings are the choice of most rebs in PvP, although some people prefer x-wings.