Shipwright Archive

Thread: new weapon capacitor 5/10/2005

Resetgun
Tue May 10, 2005 8:45 am
#14

Here issmall tablefrom looted capacitator components (213 samples):



Capacitators                                                                                            

Level 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Fluctation Change / Level
Energy Drain 857 884 930 853 929 833 961 1 034 976 956 14 % 20
Mass 872 1 467 2 330 3 962 5 842 9 357 14 995 29 239 37 678 46 797 11 % 4 592
Capacitator Energy 605 893 610 912 647 1 015 777 1 109 805 1 228 16 % 62
Recharge 22,7 34,2 26,8 34,9 27,6 38,5 29,7 44,7 32,9 50,0 15 % 2,7

Notes: Odd levels are junk rule!

If you find component that have better value than listed in table above, you have just found component that is top 15% component (-->85% of components are worse).

Here is another table that shows max and mins:
Tiedot                 1        2        3        4        5        6         7         8         9         10        

Avg. Energy Drain 1 026,06 998,69 1 038,88 985,62 1 063,68 1 011,82 1 136,38 1 148,68 1 149,29 1 154,33
Min Energy Drain 747,9 763,8 848,1 759 726,1 740,3 673,8 908,9 673,8 757,7
Max Energy Drain 1490,5 1152,7 1191,9 1199,5 1274,8 1289,4 1447,8 1360,3 1447,4 1479,8
Energy Drain Std. Dev. 168,70 114,65 109,01 132,59 134,70 178,60 175,85 114,53 173,40 198,06
Avg. Mass 954,55 1 658,67 2 510,40 4 458,16 6 428,67 10 851,69 17 022,02 31 823,14 42 730,21 53 600,06
Min Mass 797,5 1179,3 2246,5 3143,5 5119,4 8422,5 11930,6 26394,6 31899,7 41341,4
Max Mass 1121,1 1896,1 2771,6 5142 7426,8 13630,7 20451,9 36396,6 50886,9 64095,2
Mass Std. Dev. 82,09 191,66 180,32 495,73 587,12 1 494,67 2 026,60 2 583,74 5 052,51 6 802,84
Avg. Energy 528,11 755,44 534,95 775,69 567,98 852,73 654,55 987,07 685,52 1 048,56
Min Energy 398,4 414,3 377 384,6 416,2 641,6 433,7 661,7 515 705,7
Max Energy 726,6 1020,8 632,1 970,4 726,1 1157,5 1032,3 1214,3 955,8 1335,3
Energy Std. Dev. 76,59 137,64 75,04 136,13 78,68 162,33 122,60 122,30 119,82 179,13
Avg. Recharge 19,83 30,25 23,14 30,02 24,80 32,96 25,89 39,74 28,03 42,27
Min Recharge 14,4 24,4 18,5 16,2 18,8 24,4 17,2 29,5 20,6 30,6
Max Recharge 25,9 36,5 28,6 39,2 29,5 43,7 32,5 50,4 37,6 58
Recharge Std. Dev. 2,85 3,91 3,62 4,88 2,83 5,49 3,82 5,00 4,89 7,69
Sample Count 27 20 13 21 18 17 28 26 23 20



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Scoooter
Tue May 10, 2005 9:15 am
#15






Darth_Platypus wrote:






RPMayhem wrote:
Either something didn't patch right, or we need DP to make another look at this.



Balancing against reverse engineering is a very difficult process, because you guys come up with some killer RE combinations that are very hard to see coming on my end. That, and looking at the data again, there are some low level capacitors with very high stats that throw the whole process off.

It does look like recharge rates in particular are still too low, so I'll make another pass on the numbers and see what I come up with.

Thanks for the continued feedback.






I am not a SW. However I am not sure crafting should be better than RE. It should be better than the loot definitely.


2 reasons


1) SW needs a reason to RE for the firespray disks


2) With the way loot has been nerfed it takes a long time to get enough of the same high level component. Takes a lot of kills to get 8 level 8 blasters or capacitors for example







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CeearemWareign
Tue May 10, 2005 11:02 am
#16

The capacitors are uselss as they are right now. But i dont think that they need an increase like mentioned here from some people.

The lvl 6 capas i loot regulary have about 1000 energy and 40-44 recharge rate, at 12k mass. I think lvl 7 crafted ones should do something comparable: for me good stats would be:


crafted lvl 7 should reach:

1200 energy 45 recharge rate 16k mass.


This should be reachable using good resources (900 stats)

My reason why i dont think that they should be doable aboth these values are, that loot items should potentially reach better values if you use some time for collecting. One of the my personal loves in space is the collectors attitude. I love to find new slightly better things as before, tweaking my ship to highest possible performance.

On the other hand we need to be able to craft usefull components and the numbers above are definately useable, and still leave place for loot components for the additional kick.


Btw, i can do lvl 7 engine now with 103 top speed, i got a lot of top resources here and know what the actual caps in the stats are at least on chimaera.





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IIscandar
Tue May 10, 2005 11:19 am
#17







CeearemWareign wrote:


The capacitors are uselss as they are right now. But i dont think that they need an increase
like mentioned here from some people.


The lvl 6 capas i loot regulary have about 1000 energy and 40-44 recharge rate, at 12k mass.
I think lvl 7 crafted ones should do something comparable: for me good stats would be:




crafted lvl 7 should reach:


1200 energy 45 recharge rate 16k mass.




This should be reachable using good resources (900 stats)


My reason why i dont think that they should be doable aboth these values are, that
loot items should potentially reach better values if you use some time for collecting.
One of the my personal loves in space is the collectors attitude. I love to find new
slightly better things as before, tweaking my ship to highest possible performance.


On the other hand we need to be able to craft usefull components and the numbers
above are definately useable, and still leave place for loot components for the additional kick.




Btw, i can do lvl 7 engine now with 103 top speed, i got a lot of top resources here
and know what the actual caps in the stats are at least on chimaera.













Hmm, so it seems that even with boosted recharge and energy, We still have to compete with the
low mass of loot like you presented. I wouldn't argue with that. Perhaps an even higher boost to
the recharge and energy lvl, would make up for the larger mass? I mean if you want low mass with
good performance, you get a shipwright to RE one. If you want high performance and don't mind the
mass increase, crafted could always beat loot on recharge and energy. Still, the system has to
encourage shipwrights to continue to reverse engineer items and encourage pilots to purchase them.




What if player crafted ship components where better than anything you could loot in space.
The loot would have one outstanding stat that beats any player crafted component stat, but not be
able to compete with crafted components without being RE'd. When reverse engineered and combined, the
result of the looted components would be better than any crafted components.

This would reduce the amount of "loot" only pilots unless, they'd visited a shipwright to have
that loot reverse engineered. It would keep shipwrights in the loop and still allow quest reward/loot
componentsto be the stuff of Uberness that pilots are craving. Until pilots found enough loot to have that special
component made, they would be encouraged to purchase components from shipwrights since they are
the best you can get at that point.




This may very well be the eventual goal of this system already, it is just a rocky road of
adjustments and balance to get there. Only time or a Dev will tell

Message Edited by IIscandar on 05-10-2005 01:24 PM

S-1-l2-H-C
Tue May 10, 2005 11:32 am
#18

not a bad idea, make each of the loot components have one stat they are know for. for example, you could have all the"incom elite" engines drop with a high yaw rate, and allthe mandalmotors elite enginesdrop with good pitch. then you collect one of each type of engine in that re lvl, and re it (add filler parts if needed)



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EEMAN
Tue May 10, 2005 11:36 am
#19






Scoooter wrote:





Darth_Platypus wrote:






RPMayhem wrote:
Either something didn't patch right, or we need DP to make another look at this.



Balancing against reverse engineering is a very difficult process, because you guys come up with some killer RE combinations that are very hard to see coming on my end. That, and looking at the data again, there are some low level capacitors with very high stats that throw the whole process off.

It does look like recharge rates in particular are still too low, so I'll make another pass on the numbers and see what I come up with.

Thanks for the continued feedback.






I am not a SW. However I am not sure crafting should be better than RE. It should be better than the loot definitely.


2 reasons


1) SW needs a reason to RE for the firespray disks


2) With the way loot has been nerfed it takes a long time to get enough of the same high level component. Takes a lot of kills to get 8 level 8 blasters or capacitors for example








RE doesnt have to have higher attributes to be better.. it already benefits from being lower mass. Even IF I could make a mark IV engine with the exact same mass as the original reward level 6 inferno ( 92.2 speed 63 Y/P/R) the reward engine can be RE'd down to 8.5k mass whereas my mark IV still endures 14k mass. But, with the rest of the stats on parr, it makes the slap in the face more like a brush not a hard sting. If you look at my original post you will seea level 2 caacitorwith 1/10th the mass. Even the level 6 RE'd that I use in my Xwing enjoys lower mass. So RE will always have a purpose, butit will take 6 different parts each with one good attribute to finally make the component that beats out thecrafted one.. Atleast thats my personalconcept of a balance betweenloot and crafting.


As to your statement about the firespray, who is going to want to spend 10mil on that (even a single disk fragment sells for 2mil anymore) when the heavy Xwing, the royal interceptor, and whatevership the neutrals are getting is free and enjoys good mass as well. I understand they arent identical flight models, but 10milvs 1 day of questing... not much of a comparison. The ratiois 1 out of 500 RE's drops a schematic; Not components, but RE's.If you stuck to just RE level 1 parts and RE'd 500 of them, you are faced with 2 options - 1) collect 500 RE level 1 parts (you yourself admitted this would take forever and a day) 2) buy them at which case we have to spend 1000 - 2000 credits to compete with a chassis broker wich makes each disk go for around 1mil plus labor and time hunting parts off vendors. or 3) pay the 2mil extortion fee because its a lot faster and if you really added up what your time is worth you may actualy end up spending less this way.








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jason67
Tue May 10, 2005 11:59 am
#20

I would probably argue that a recharge rate of 50, while nice is by no means necessary. It wouldn't be bad for POB ships, but even POB ships really don't need this kind of power output. However I do think that crafted capacitors should be reaching the 40+ mark, I would expect you to be able to hit about a 45recharge/900+energy with roughly a 20-30k mass involved in it. It would still be on the heavy side but very usable if needed, and if you need a lower mass version then all hte more reason to go out and find parts for your SW to RE.





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sharpie222
Tue May 10, 2005 3:43 pm
#21

I'd say energy rate is a bit better then before but like everyone is saying the recharge is too low to match looted caps,
one thing that could help is let the base stat start higher & make experiment boost it higher per point then it does right now.


I myself made 2 Mark III (level 5) Caps to see, one with a Mark III heavy battery (i think it was about +135 cap. energy, +210 to energy drain,9 exp. to energy, capped off, then 1 to drain)


(5 points on cap. energy & 5 points on recharge, all the same resources)


enhanced one got:


Armor : 294.2

Hitpoint: 588.3

R. Drain: 1381.5

Mass : 6039.6

C.Energy :859.6

Recharge: 28.1



Non-enhanced one got:


Armor : 294.2

Hitpoint: 588.3

R. Drain: 1171.1

Mass : 6039.6

C.Energy :724.3

Recharge: 28.5 (amazing success on this)







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Fuss
Tue May 10, 2005 6:01 pm
#22

Atleast the engines are faster.


Fuss





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KaylBreinhar
Tue May 10, 2005 6:06 pm
#23


ArdenStarmariner wrote:

Rogue1970 wrote:

50-55 recharge is an exceptional RE job or should be the range of a cert 9 capacitor made with 950+ stat resources.

I can run my Krayt with two cert9, a cert8 and a cert7 gun on a 42 recharge with cap overload 3 and rarely run out of energy.

I like how Darth is handling this tho, slowly tweaking the numbers up rather than jumping....

Don't forget to check into the missing UT stat on asteroid resources Darth - try making a Mining Laser, Cargo Hold or Tractor Beam.




There's at least one RE'd level 10 capacitor on Eclipse with a recharge rate of 56. N'Varra Wren has it in her YT-1300. That's the best one I know about. The capactor in my YT-1300 is a RE'd level 10 with a recharge rate of 52.

You might want to start with a recharge rate of 60 for the new Elite POB Only Capacitor and work down from there.

In fact, I suggest you pull up N'Varra Wren's YT-1300 here on Eclipse and look at all the components on it. It's a good example of the top end on just about every catagory of ship component.

Message Edited by ArdenStarmariner on 05-10-2005 11:26 AM



I've got one that'd RE to 60.2 with a reactor drain of 797.8 and a stored energy of 1696.x, I think. Mass would be 35230.0. The drain could be better, but seeing as I have a 45.7k gen L8 reactor, it wouldn't be much of a stretch.

I traded pretty much every one of my L8s away since an Imperial pilot can't really use an L8 even in an Oppressor, but that was a 51.2 regen with about 1400 energy and an EXTREMELY low reactor drain in the 600s.

Message Edited by KaylBreinhar on 05-10-2005 09:09 PM



Death doesn't fly a JSF anymore...he flies a Gallente Thorax in EVE Online
KaylBreinhar
Tue May 10, 2005 6:10 pm
#24

So Arden, if you wonder why there's hardly anything worth buying on the vendor search on Eclipse, it's because I was on that thing like white on rice the first day.

Already picked up several more reward shields, many more post-nerf reward engines, two more Borstel disruptors, and an L4 cap with 26xx mass (far under what I'm used to seeing in the Gallant A1 line).



Death doesn't fly a JSF anymore...he flies a Gallente Thorax in EVE Online
Tripp
Tue May 10, 2005 8:45 pm
#25

Caps in general have really wierd stat combos. My best capacitor is a non-re'd level 4... maybe 5? Sarlacc S2. I use it in everything but the big ol' YT-1300, which has my only higher recharge cap. Cert 10, 49.2

It is very hard to balance though... with a 40.6 and cap overload 3 I can basically tape down my fire button on the krayt, and it has some big power hungery guns on it.

As a pilot, all I ever bother to look for is recharge rate vs. mass and power usage.



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ArdenStarmariner
Wed May 11, 2005 4:25 am
#26


KaylBreinhar wrote:
So Arden, if you wonder why there's hardly anything worth buying on the vendor search on Eclipse, it's because I was on that thing like white on rice the first day.

Already picked up several more reward shields, many more post-nerf reward engines, two more Borstel disruptors, and an L4 cap with 26xx mass (far under what I'm used to seeing in the Gallant A1 line).




Ummm. Read my post again about the market being DOA on Eclipse. Was any of that stuff you mentioned crafted with asteroid resources? Doesn't sound like it. I was refering to the market for crafted items made from space mined resources.

Message Edited by ArdenStarmariner on 05-11-2005 07:27 AM




Arden Starmariner - Master Jedi, Smugglers' Alliance Privateer Ace - Eclipse.
Nemok Starmariner - Elder Commando - Eclipse.
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