Shipwright Archive
Thread: A quick heads up on TC changes (please read I need data from you to discuss with QA)
Page 2 of 2
Loki_Ashaman
Wed Dec 01, 2004 9:54 am
#14
I keep a small stock of Sycks and TIE Lights on my vendor, listing at I believe 15K on Kettemoor, and they do sell.
styx66
Wed Dec 01, 2004 1:17 pm
#15
Thanks RD for spotting this, I will try to get word on the issue.
Sorry I haven't been around, my comp died on friday (happy thanksgiving!) and i just put a new one together last night, and my new laptop arrived tonight, so im busy reconfiguring etc... Will be more active soon!
4Bidden
Thu Dec 02, 2004 2:03 am
#16
I disagree with the TC changes... If these changes take place, shipwrights wont need to makenovice shipsanymore. The devs really need to think before they make hasty changes like this one..I'm starting to feel that the shipwrightprofession is someone's red-headed step child..
Lets see.............. Some looted comps are godly, making equivalentSW crafted comps worthless......SW'shave very limited factory support, in turn, having to spend huge amounts of time crafting (because if this, I know 2 SW's that quit making anything for the general public).......... And now, free novice ships have lightspeed and are upgradeable. Further taking away from SW's cause those novice pilots wont need to purchase anything until they advance.
This willundoubtedly affect the novice shipwrights more than the masters. If a novice pilot whats a lightspeed capable ship, they should pay for one.
If this change goes thru, I will feel very sorry for any novice SW trying to roleplay their way thru the profession.
Red-Dwarf
Thu Dec 02, 2004 3:08 am
#17
Cross post from the TC bug thread since there has been a recent trend for threads to be archived to a dev only access forum and I want to keep these on record.
Stats summary
Crafted
ArmourCraftedPrototype Booster
Armour180250 R.Drain612
Mass8791500 Mass846
R.Drain01200
Crafted
ArmourCraftedPrototype Booster
Armour180250 R.Drain612
Mass8791500 Mass846
R.Drain01200
Capacitor Chaff
R.Drain10971200 R.Drain1119
Mass9791500 Mass1102
Energy451500
Recharge rate1820 Droid Int.
R.Drain555
Engine Mass441
R.Drain16541200
Mass8651500 Proton
P/Y/R4148 R.Drain1075
Speed3942 Mass1066
R.Drain10971200 R.Drain1119
Mass9791500 Mass1102
Energy451500
Recharge rate1820 Droid Int.
R.Drain555
Engine Mass441
R.Drain16541200
Mass8651500 Proton
P/Y/R4148 R.Drain1075
Speed3942 Mass1066
Reactor
Energy Out94928000
Mass10901500
Energy Out94928000
Mass10901500
Shield
R.Drain27461200
Mass10821500
Shields HP224300
Recharge1.82.0
R.Drain27461200
Mass10821500
Shields HP224300
Recharge1.82.0
Blaster
Energy Drain21101200
Mass9431500
Damage Min276330
Damage Max371420
V sh/armour0.4760.5
Energy per shot17.717
Rate of Fire0.3570.345
Energy Drain21101200
Mass9431500
Damage Min276330
Damage Max371420
V sh/armour0.4760.5
Energy per shot17.717
Rate of Fire0.3570.345
CraftedFree
Totals
Mass (basic)671710500
Energy (basic)76077200
Mass (full)1017213955
Energy (full)103569949
Energy avail.94928000
Mass avail/1170011000
Mass avail/1170011000
Even when you account for mass and energy swap out the reactor and armour and you can fit in a droid interface and booster, and with a bit of luck fit in a proton or chaff launcher.
So I would love to say why this is a problem, but I've signed an NDA and can't post in that forum cause it's OT (Catch-22 hey)
Thanks
Red-Dwarf
Red-Dwarf
Thu Dec 02, 2004 3:10 am
#18
Figured this one might be useful here as well, it's a cross post from the Update notes thread, since they sometimes go archived as well. 
Why do people buy Tier0 ships?
1) Because they think of them as cool – these guys are likely to be after high quality ships and will be looking for Masters or at least 4xxx SW’s to make them with mass of 12.2k+
2) To get to Tier1. To be honest I suspect many don’t as the starter ship is now good enough to reach 1000 or even 1111 without much difficulty (you shouldn’t be taking on more than Tier 2 enemies anyway at that level) and then they can buy a Tier1 ship. (I suspect Ken's "more robust chassis" would probably be tier 1 but feel free to correct me)
3) To make use of free travel. This market has just been stripped out as no one will need to buy a ship to get this.
4) To have the full range of components (specifically shields (TIE), booster, droid interface, chaff, missiles). This market has been stripped out almost completely as you can use them all in a prototype ship, only mass may be an issue.
1) Because they think of them as cool – these guys are likely to be after high quality ships and will be looking for Masters or at least 4xxx SW’s to make them with mass of 12.2k+
2) To get to Tier1. To be honest I suspect many don’t as the starter ship is now good enough to reach 1000 or even 1111 without much difficulty (you shouldn’t be taking on more than Tier 2 enemies anyway at that level) and then they can buy a Tier1 ship. (I suspect Ken's "more robust chassis" would probably be tier 1 but feel free to correct me)
3) To make use of free travel. This market has just been stripped out as no one will need to buy a ship to get this.
4) To have the full range of components (specifically shields (TIE), booster, droid interface, chaff, missiles). This market has been stripped out almost completely as you can use them all in a prototype ship, only mass may be an issue.
The mark-up from a prototype ship to a tier0 crafted ship is only 700mass (out of 11k) and 800 hp. Since hp has very limited impact (since you can still fly with 0hp, just if you lose your shields and armour you die quicker, and I only recall dying once during Tier 1 when my computer froze up, as long as I didn’t stray into Tier 3 zones) and mass with tier 0 components is only a problem if you want to get chaff and droid interface installed.
The issue is all about new players – experienced players will not have a problem with this as SW’s will make other stuff and pilots have enough cash to burn. But a new shipwright who can only make tier0 chassis trying to sell to a new pilot who has no cash except what he can get from selling loot is going to find it very tough to sell, since the pilot will likely have enough xp for Tier 1 before he has the cash to pay 10k chassis fee and 5-50k blueprint cost. He may be able to sell a basic reactor, booster and chaff or droid interface, but competing in that market is tough as you are against both other novice sw, sw who can add in upgrades (at tier 1) and loot, which is already a big issue with us as far as balance goes.
If Tiggs or another dev wants to PM me on why once the NDA is lifted the dev goals will be shown to be against this policy I’ll reply to them, otherwise I’m gonna point QA tothis thread to see if they can pass it on as well andthenleave the fight on this, it never affected me personally (and never will unless TC gets a wipe). I’ll report any bugs I see with these and will repost any rebalanced stats if they come in, but otherwise I think we may just agree to disagree.
I trust nothing I have said has been taken personally and apologise for any ‘short’ comments, whether I am right or not will only emerge over months as new players arrive but I don’t want to have hurt anyone’s feelings now (or ever).
/bow
Thanks for reading
Red-Dwarf
neutrineaux
Thu Dec 02, 2004 11:54 am
#19
I sell entry level chassis for 15k and they sell, albiet at a slow rate. I keep several on the vendor.
I also see entry level chassis on our galaxy's bazaar every time I check, sometimes for as low as 500 credits. I do not build entry level chassis anymore for this reason. When I need a restock, I buy them from the bazaar to conserve my resources for more lucrative items.
Humdoros
Thu Dec 02, 2004 1:34 pm
#20
I sell them quite regularly for 25k each, as do most of the Shipwrights on Wanderhome.
PaladinX333
Sat Dec 04, 2004 6:19 am
#21
Red-Dwarf wrote:
Probably not much to the MSW's as the view I've been told is that there aren't enough live sellers of Tier0 ships out there, hence this change. (For avoidance of doubt Tier 0 = Syck, TIE Light, Z-95, Tier 1 = Y-wing, TIE Fighter, Dunelizard)
There are Tier 0 ships on almost every other shipwright vendor on Corbantis. You can buy them for 6K on the bazaar. The Tier 0 ships are extremely easy to find and very cheap (5K to 15K). They are WAY off base on this. I have no idea what gave them the idea that there are not enough sellers of Tier 0 ships. If anything, there is an over supply of them!
I am not a shipwright, but I feel that this is a very bad change. Putting together your first ship is an important experience for people in JTL. You can make mistakes fairly inexpensively at Tier 0.
Just to be clear: THERE ARE TIER 0 SHIPS ALL OVER THE DAMN PLACE AND YOU DONT NEED TO WORRY ABOUT THE SUPPLY OF THEM.
Where the heck did
PaladinX333
Sat Dec 04, 2004 6:26 am
#22
Red-Dwarf wrote:
Probably not much to the MSW's as the view I've been told is that there aren't enough live sellers of Tier0 ships out there, hence this change. (For avoidance of doubt Tier 0 = Syck, TIE Light, Z-95, Tier 1 = Y-wing, TIE Fighter, Dunelizard)
There are Tier 0 ships on almost every shipwright vendor on Corbantis. You can buy them for 6K on the bazaar. The Tier 0 ships are extremely easy to find and very cheap (5K to 15K). They are WAY off base on this. I have no idea what gave them the idea that there are not enough sellers of Tier 0 ships. If anything, there is an over supply of them! This idea is based on a faulty premise.
I am not a shipwright, but I feel that this is a very bad change. Putting together your first ship is an important experience for people in JTL. You can make mistakes fairly inexpensively at Tier 0. Outfitting a 12K mass ship is great practice for the mass and power challenges you will face at the higher tiers. I had as much fun making my Z95 into a good ship as I did flying it.
Just to be clear: THERE ARE TIER 0 SHIPS ALL OVER THE DAMN PLACE AND YOU DONT NEED TO WORRY ABOUT THE SUPPLY OF THEM.
Where the heck did they ever get the idea that there were not enough tier0 ships??? With all the JTL issues still outstanding, why are they wasting *ANY* time at all on this?
Jagged-F3l
Sat Dec 04, 2004 3:30 pm
#23
I don't understand this change at all. Since the beginning of this game the devs have touted how they can't do this and they can't do that because they believed it would hurt the economy. With this change, it is my opinion that the space aspect of this game hurts the economy in three distinct ways:
- Looted Ship Components - I don't care if they're better than what an SW can craft, players are going to use them. Given a choice of having to spend your hard earned credits on a player crafted ship component or use the looted component, what is the typical player going to do? They are going to use the looted component. Especially in a system where they are going to have to turn around and upgrade all their components once they reach the next tier of their pilot progression.
- Starter Ships - starter ships should be so basic that they merely exist to familiarize a new pilot with space. It should be something akin to a trashcan with an engine.
- Decay - I realize that ship chassis and components do experience decay. However, let's be realistic. How many SWs have had a customer come back to replace a ship chassis or component due to decay?
If these issues aren't addressed, then this profession will suffer the same fate as Droid Engineer. I would like to toss some proposals out on the table:
- Greatly reduce worthwhile looted space components.
- Introduce looted space component upgrades. The precendent for this already exists in the ground game. For example, a combat type can loot Janta Blood, which results in superior medicines.
- Introduce looted space component "attachments". For example, introduce an "Engine Turbocharger" which would increase speed by a couple of points.
- Introduce space missions that can sustain a pilot's financial needs.
- Keep the starter ship thing the way it currently exists on live.
sbob
Sat Dec 04, 2004 5:45 pm
#24
I have had a few come back for more armor as it is often the hardest hit. Also figureing that the stuff we are making now is the basic for that level and that later there will be more added. The thing to look at is that the equipment all has a very easy system in place to be upgraded with newer and better items down the road. EVERY componet has an upgrade slit that curently had the class 1-5 upgrades that we can make in them. In the future it will be easy to slowly switch over from the looted items being only full fledged items to being upgrade pieces with certan levels set on them. I have a feeling such an adition was planned and why they made every ship item have those level restrocted upgrade slots as well. Right now i think that the fevs are trying to make it easy to get people into the space game and that once there enough there can do the switch over. No one ever said the loot revamp that is taking place now was going to be limuted to the ground game. Who is to say phase 2 or 3 of it will not change and add in such space based loot.
Capt_Moroni
Sun Dec 05, 2004 1:14 am
#25
I sell Tier 0 ships for 35K, and they seem to be selling well.
Page 2 of 2