Shipwright Archive
Thread: Focus Thread: Loot Versus Craftables
EnFERn0
Tue Nov 23, 2004 1:38 pm
#14
Crafted Boosters and Capacitators can't compete with loots.
Problem with these is that their capacity is way to low.
Engines:
Experimenting on YPR, this has very little effect.
This makes looted and the gift engine valuable.
Loot Issues:
Weight increase has been exaggerated.
SinjenRandall
Tue Nov 23, 2004 4:30 pm
#15
The biggest issue I have when sitting down and trying to compose my thoughts on the subject is the simple fact that space loot is fun. I think the overwhelming majority is not going to be in favor of nerfing loot, and even as a master shipwright I am loathe to give up any of my looting fun. But here is where I see some balance taking place:
1) Make loot possibly great in one stat, not multiple stats. This "nerf" would be nullified with Reverse Engineering, of course, but the loot wouldn't be of anysignificantworth without RE. This puts the components in our hands whether they are loot or not. For instance, a looted reactor can have a really high energy, but it should weigh a ton. Or if it is really light, it shouldn't put out nearly as much energy. We can still RE these to get a nice reactor. I think what aggravates me more than people ending up with nice loot is people using raw, non-RE loot that is better than what I can make.
2)Boost the bonuses of some of those subcomponents we make. Raise the bonuses we get with some of the components, or maybe we need a couple more. Something toboost engine YPR would be nice, and the capacitor subs just flat don't raise it enough. I won't ask to be able to make a 1500 cap 40 recharge capacitor, but one or the other would be nice. Does that make sense? I would like to outdo loot in at least one stat consistently. Like I do with weapons. I can beat the capacitor energy per shot of looted components 99% of the time. I like that. I want that with more stats.
Well, I ran out of time to add things to this list. Basically, I don't want to see loot go away, or get worse, but what I do want to see is a more consistent involvement of the shipwright to the entire process. Plus I want people to have a really good desire to come and get a custom made component from me, and I be able to tweak whatever stat they need tweaked. Something they just can't get with loot.
Brilyn
Tue Nov 23, 2004 5:54 pm
#16
< Weaponsmiths still have a lot of work to do to keep the pepole happy. Why shouldn't this be the same for shipwrights? >
As a WS *and* a SW I'm pretty happy that most Space loot that drops is junk.
The sole exception being Capacitors.
The only people who fixate on the YPR values on engines are the people who haven't figured out the 'sweet spot' for turning on their chassis-of-choice. I can 180 in a Rihryxk (More vowels, dammi!) at 40% throttle *very* quickly. YPR is meaningless in that context.
00over0
Tue Nov 23, 2004 5:59 pm
#17
SLK wrote:
Why cant loot be subcomponents like in the groundgame?
Would make some nice interaction
I second this. Component loots don't need to be eliminated, but it would be nice if subcomponents were also looted so that a great crafted weapon could exceed loot. I wouldn't want SW to become like WS, in which loot determines everything and woe be it to the poor potential SW who has no great loot with which to make a name with, but occasional great subcomponent loot would be a nice addition to help round things out, I think.
ravingbantha
Tue Nov 23, 2004 6:06 pm
#18
I have no problem with looted items being better than what can be made. But those items need to be like looted weapons on the ground. Occasionally better, or add skill mods or different effects, but for the most part only good for RE'ing. Perhaps raise the bar on crafted resultes to beat out 90% of what's looted with the occasional "good stuff".
Mejowepra
Wed Nov 24, 2004 1:48 am
#19
Just wanted to comment on looted weapons in my experience:
Although often they have both A/S vs values at 0.6ish, they usually have slower refire rate and significantly higher energy per shot. I have yet to loot a single weapon which I would consider to be comparable to shipwright made ones. Only exception is the weapon I got at 4444 rebel (I believe), which has 14.1 energy / shot and nice dmg (but same > 0.4 refire rate).
Although often they have both A/S vs values at 0.6ish, they usually have slower refire rate and significantly higher energy per shot. I have yet to loot a single weapon which I would consider to be comparable to shipwright made ones. Only exception is the weapon I got at 4444 rebel (I believe), which has 14.1 energy / shot and nice dmg (but same > 0.4 refire rate).
Mejowepra
Wed Nov 24, 2004 1:50 am
#20
SLK wrote:
Why cant loot be subcomponents like in the groundgame?
Would make some nice interaction
I feel like the current loot system is great. It makes it so you don't EXCLUSIVELY need to contact a shipwright for items (although they still play an important part).
The ability to ALSO loot a limited use schematic (we already do loot random funny data disks), exceptional components (only good one - the excessive dropping of crap components in the ground game seriously sucks) and such isn't a bad idea. Perhaps as a bonus, allow RE to randomly yield these times IN ADDITION TO the normal item.
As a Pilot the system works great. A majority of my components are made by shipwrights. Some are looted, some are RE'd loot.
I agree that caps, boosters and engines are where shipwright needs the most help.
Ackew
Wed Nov 24, 2004 1:54 am
#21
Well since Farstar has'nt had a even a half decent copper for makeing weapons caps i can't comment on how good they will be when we do. But my boosters and weapons beat the hell out of any looted ones I've seen. Even with a really crappy JTL ore i can make an engine with a TS of over 103 and y/p/r of about 55.x
Zilod
Wed Nov 24, 2004 3:49 am
#22
in my opinion the big umbalance is on capacitators and this need to be fixed (boost of SW ones)
for engines is it true that generally looted engines have better YPR but is also true that the drop rate of good engines, expecially good speed ones is really low.
with SW "speed boost" i see them more balanced, and now that the 92speed engine got nerfed i think that there will be more customers
for weapons i also don't see big imbalances, SW ones seem worse cause of bad mods but they have very good speed/energy 4 shot, for my taste adv and exp ion guns with speed enhancement and experimented on speed/energy 4 shot are among the best guns, comparable even to good RE stuff.
reactors are ok in my opinion, a good SW can craft very nice low level reactors 
, some looted ones are better than that but overall i don't see so big differences... things change with high level stuff where some very rare reactors outclass the best SW ones, also high level reactors are totally useless atm.
, some looted ones are better than that but overall i don't see so big differences... things change with high level stuff where some very rare reactors outclass the best SW ones, also high level reactors are totally useless atm.boosters... i don't bother with them very much i use mostly high speed engines and when i use them doesn't make big differences for me if they are really good or just decent. so i can't express an opinion here.
i don't use too much even armors (most of my craft have not them to save space 
) the ones i use are crafted ones that seem to be generally better than looted.
) the ones i use are crafted ones that seem to be generally better than looted.shields... crafted ones are generally better, to beat them you need a good RE one
Dark_0ne
Wed Nov 24, 2004 4:07 am
#23
2 issues:
1) capacitors - crafted ones cannot even get close to most of the low level loot drops
2) weapons - experimenting on the vs shield or armour mods is rubbish !!! nowhere near enough improvement to allow us to approach some of the looted values.
Also - why are odd numbered levels of loot generally worse than the level lower ? Not only is the mass lower, but more often than not the effectiveness is higher as well !!
If that was a misguided attempt to make crafted items more preferable, it doesn't work !! I'm still using a lot of even numbered loot in my ship, and I am a master shipwright with access to some pretty good resources.
I would think it was fairly straightforward ....
Let the shipwright achieve the max/min available value on any single experimentation line when using the best resources, and average values on everything else.
That way, we would be able to compete against a fair proportion of the loot, but would naturally not be in the same league as a reverse engineered component.
1) capacitors - crafted ones cannot even get close to most of the low level loot drops
2) weapons - experimenting on the vs shield or armour mods is rubbish !!! nowhere near enough improvement to allow us to approach some of the looted values.
Also - why are odd numbered levels of loot generally worse than the level lower ? Not only is the mass lower, but more often than not the effectiveness is higher as well !!
If that was a misguided attempt to make crafted items more preferable, it doesn't work !! I'm still using a lot of even numbered loot in my ship, and I am a master shipwright with access to some pretty good resources.
I would think it was fairly straightforward ....
Let the shipwright achieve the max/min available value on any single experimentation line when using the best resources, and average values on everything else.
That way, we would be able to compete against a fair proportion of the loot, but would naturally not be in the same league as a reverse engineered component.
Kiashia
Wed Nov 24, 2004 5:24 am
#24
Here are some examples of what i use with me being a master shipwright.
Caps, I have a looted level 7 cap 48.9 recharge. 8k mass, cant come close with crafted.
Reactor - I use a lootedlevel 2 13,900 2 k mass reactor. I can craft a level 7 thats 16k tops.
Shields, my best crafted 7 is 1500 ish, I use a looted a level 8 2600 ish
Engines - i use a level 5 looted 92 top speedwith mid 60's for turns. best crafted level 7 i can do is 89 top speed with mid 50 turns.
I found some weapons that are looted that far pass crafted but i don't have numbers and i use my crafted weapons cause i beef speed to death.
Armor i use my own crafted
Boosters I use my own crafted.
Basicly there is a large chance of getting a far better looted item then crafters have the ability to make.
I also have a major issue wirth reverse eng. That being that a novice can reverse eng any level lootitem and skill improvement does not increase the bonus gained.. so anyone that wants to make good money as a parts sales person only needs to be a good pilot with novice shipwright skills and you get better items then a master can make.. seems backwards to me.
Zilod
Wed Nov 24, 2004 7:01 am
#25
i think we should separe looted items from reward ones
looted are the ones normally found, they probably have their own rarity and can be found anytime
rewards are special items that players aquire after various missions, they are 1 time items (if the player don't surrender pilot) and every pilot can get them
Kiashia wrote:
Caps, I have a looted level 7 cap 48.9 recharge. 8k mass, cant come close with crafted.
Reactor - I use a lootedlevel 2 13,900 2 k mass reactor. I can craft a level 7 thats 16k tops.
Shields, my best crafted 7 is 1500 ish, I use a looted a level 8 2600 ish
this is probably a lv8 reward shield that you have RE, different from looted shields... lv7 looted can have stats superior to crafted one but is really difficult to have them on front/back/recharge and mass, generally from what i saw you have to RE looted shields to make one superior to a crafted one. It also depends mostly on how the shield is crafted, for example i'm still using a lv5 1200 crafted shield in one of my ships and don't plan to change it
Engines - i use a level 5 looted 92 top speedwith mid 60's for turns. best crafted level 7 i can do is 89 top speed with mid 50 turns.
even this one probably is a reward (but lv should be 6), there are looted engines superior to crafted but is not so easy to find them so far i have looted only an engine with 100+ speed and i have almost 3 masters and around 20m of prestige points. YPR of looted is far superior to crafted in this i agree and maybe will be better to experiment on all 3 stats at once instead of having them splitted, or to give more points to experiment with.
I found some weapons that are looted that far pass crafted but i don't have numbers and i use my crafted weapons cause i beef speed to death.
now i'm not saying that cause they are rewards is all ok, but isdifferentthan looted items, they are 2 different "designs", i see most of the complains came out of reward items (even the lv8 2500-3600 gun mentioned above is probably a tier4 reward) andis not that all looted items came out with that stats and because everyone have one they are common loot, in my opinion we should separate the 2 things and consider what is really loot and what not
Niacia
Wed Nov 24, 2004 7:03 am
#26
Afaik, a novice cannot reverse engineer EQ level 10 stuff. The level of loot, that can be reverse engineered rises with each tier.
I am not sure I checked this myself, but that is what the description (Alt+S) says.
Does it not work that way in practice? Is there a bug?
Regards
Niacia
I am not sure I checked this myself, but that is what the description (Alt+S) says.
Does it not work that way in practice? Is there a bug?
Regards
Niacia