Shipwright Archive
Thread: No Longer Making Components For General Public.
Raise your prices to a level that gives you the money you think your time is worth? At worst it's the same as no longer making components. At best, you make better money.
Devs should have added better factory support. Plain and simple.
Gooney wrote:
Ultimately this debate will boil down to the differences between true Shipwrights versus FOTM Shipwrights.
True Shipwrights will be similar to all of the other crafting masters, regularily stocking what thier customers want, usining thier time to perfect their trade and make superlative items.
FOTM Shipwrights will want the biggest bang for the buck. They will fade as quickly as any of the holo-crafters or first generation crafters (launch time).
Theres a reason that on each server any experianced player has a regular supplier of armor and weapons, clothing, droids, etc. Its because they (the craftsmen) play the game to BE a Droid Engineer, Weapon Crafter, Armor Smith, Tailor etc. That is how they get their enjoyment of the game.
Now on any server you can find tons of vendors (not as many now) full of mediocer weapons, armor, etc. These are folks that took up the craft to try it out but found for one reason or another that it didnt suit them so moved on. This is a natural process in the game.
I like many veteran players are waiting for the true Shipwrights to emerge. Right now its all confused and hectic, sure you can find chasis everywhere of wildly varying qualities, this is because the craft is new so theres tons of profiteering and dabbling going on. In a month we will begin to see a few true shipwrights popping up, and as veteran players we will do as we always do.
We will put thier shops WP in our datapad and gladly pay the higher price for quality goods that their dedication to their craft demands.
Until then I use a FOTM (as far as I can tell) shipwrights chasis and looted components.
-Gooney
Message Edited by Gooney on 11-04-2004 10:46 AM
For one, I am a true crafter. I have 3 accounts and I've had a master architect, master artisan, master chef and master DE for over a year now... I enjoy shipwright and I also appreciate what it brings to swg. I love the crafting process and I also love dealing with customers. I am in this profession for the long haul and I intend on becoming one of the elite.I am only doing thistemporarily till thingsare ironed out.. I will still make components for my guildmates and friends.. Shipwright needs work, factory support is needed.
Guessing by your last statement ""Until then I use a FOTM (as far as I can tell) shipwrights chassis and looted components."" you are not a shipwright. If you are not a shipwright then I'm not sure why are commenting at all. I was both a shipwright in beta and now.. Its a totally different feel doing it on a live server than it was on beta. A few important things were never really tested.. For one, the shipwright marked was overlooked. Many people including myself mastered shipwright and made parts for other people. But, after a while frogs were included that allowed others to master it in seconds. Factory support was never needed in beta cause many people had mastered shipwright and were making their own parts. Resources were also free in beta, so "crafting" to "resource usage" was never really tested either.
Many aspect of swg was changed to help the casual gamer. One of which is the Jedi system. I can say with complete confidence that shipwright is not for the casual gamer. How cana person who can play for an hour a day do anything significant with shipwright? Like I said, there are things in this profession that need to be ironed out..
Gooney wrote:
Ultimately this debate will boil down to the differences between true Shipwrights versus FOTM Shipwrights.
True Shipwrights will be similar to all of the other crafting masters, regularily stocking what thier customers want, usining thier time to perfect their trade and make superlative items.
FOTM Shipwrights will want the biggest bang for the buck. They will fade as quickly as any of the holo-crafters or first generation crafters (launch time).
Lemme get this straight... because I want to use factories to be able to provide my customers the best priced stuff, and to ensure that I always have stuff in stock... vs bleeding my finger tips to death grinding out product after product like I am a robot, just for hours worth of work to sell out in about 20 minutes... because I don't want to be a human factory that makes me NOT a true shipwright? BULL... let's not forget getting nagged by everyone and their mother... if I had 100 credits for everytime someone said "can you make me...". Granted I stand by my product and answer questions about it, but it really does get annoying where people think you are a walking JTL manual. I will give you some examples...
"Hi, I see you're a shipwright... How many skill points does it take to be a pilot?"
"Hi, I see you're a shipwright... How come I can't attack stuff in my Sorosuub?"
"Hi, I see you're a shipwright... Do you make droids?"'
On and on and on... Maybe if I wasn't getting carpell syndrome trying to just keep my vendor stocked for 2 min I wouldn't be so cranky to answer questions from excited people.
Here is what it boils down to... Using factories or not has nothing to do with being true to your profession. I like the author of this thread will probably stop stocking my vendors and only do stuff on order by order basis. I am already rich, I really didn't take this profession on to get rich, my stuff is by far priced the lowest on Radiant (to my knowledge). I did it because I thought it would be enjoyable, and I was excited about getting peopel the tools they need to enjoy the space element of the game.
I've been in space maybe a whole 2 or 3 hours since I got JTL... Enough is enough for me, if Devs don't want to throw us a bone, screw it... I want to enjoy the game, not be a robot.
And this guy who tries to label factory users as FOTM and non "true" shipwrights, that is totally untrue... more than likely you are just afraid of competition, and while most feel factories are needed, if you take the high road and resist, you look like the valor. True crafters are those who do it to help others in the game... but it really makes it undesirable when they make it so complicated to do it without being a robot.
Message Edited by zineotic on 11-04-2004 03:22 AM
zineotic wrote:
emme get this straight... because I want to use factories to be able to provide my customers the best priced stuff, and to ensure that I always have stuff in stock... vs bleeding my finger tips to death grinding out product after product like I am a robot, just for hours worth of work to sell out in about 20 minutes... because I don't want to be a human factory that makes me NOT a true shipwright? BULL... let's not forget getting nagged by everyone and their mother... if I had 100 credits for everytime someone said "can you make me...". Granted I stand by my product and answer questions about it, but it really does get annoying where people think you are a walking JTL manual. I will give you some examples...
"Hi, I see you're a shipwright... How many skill points does it take to be a pilot?"
"Hi, I see you're a shipwright... How come I can't attack stuff in my Sorosuub?"
"Hi, I see you're a shipwright... Do you make droids?"'
On and on and on... Maybe if I wasn't getting carpell syndrome trying to just keep my vendor stocked for 2 min I wouldn't be so cranky to answer questions from excited people.
Here is what it boils down to... Using factories or not has nothing to do with being true to your profession. I like the author of this thread will probably stop stocking my vendors and only do stuff on order by order basis. I am already rich, I really didn't take this profession on to get rich, my stuff is by far priced the lowest on Radiant (to my knowledge). I did it because I thought it would be enjoyable, and I was excited about getting peopel the tools they need to enjoy the space element of the game.
I've been in space maybe a whole 2 or 3 hours since I got JTL... Enough is enough for me, if Devs don't want to throw us a bone, screw it... I want to enjoy the game, not be a robot.
And this guy who tries to label factory users as FOTM and non "true" shipwrights, that is totally untrue... more than likely you are just afraid of competition, and while most feel factories are needed, if you take the high road and resist, you look like the valor. True crafters are those who do it to help others in the game... but it really makes it undesirable when they make it so complicated to do it without being a robot.
Message Edited by zineotic on 11-04-2004 03:22 AM
Calm down fella, thats not what was written or implied, re-read it.
Youve completely missed the point.
-Gooney
Not the important part. Just background.
If you aren't making enough profit to be worth your time, it's either time to withdraw from the public market and possibly the profession, or it's time to rethink your pricing.
Factories are a TERRIBLE IDEA. Someone mentioned that things were very different in Beta. True. One of the things we didn't see in beta was an extreme shortfall in resource availability. Well, it's happening. Steel and ore are, at least on kettemoor, very hard to come by in quantity and quality right now. You think FACTORIES are going to help that? You think scarcer resources are going to DROP your prices? No, Sorry. Don't think so.
Stop thinking like a Weaponsmith(no offense to WSes). we don't need another profession where a dozen or less people can provide for an entire server by cranking out factories from lot-swapped resource harvests. We Have plenty of them. if that's the way you want to play, there are plenty of lucrative options open to you.
Now, if you want to succeed as a SW, you don't need factories. Especially not with what you're saying. You need a realistic sense of self-worth. Tiaga hit it on the head. there are two parts to the equation. Time and profit. You want to fix time, I presume because you expect people to balk at your prices if you raise them. Some will. Some always will. Catering to them is a slippery slope. I assume here that you don't want to fix time due to not wanting to invest that much time into the profession. But if that sad state of affairs *is* the case, my advice is to get out now. Save yourself the trouble and heartbreak later and do it now.
things are just settling into a comfortable zone for me. I don't have to advertise anymore. My customers hear word of mouth and come to me. many buy from my vendor, which is there and full of loot(as a 4443 pilot, I collect it in droves) for both our conveniences. Others see that the sign outside says I specialize in "fine custom ships". And they make orders. I get enough business to make Very Good Money regularly, but not so much that I get burned out on crafting. I run missile packs and such on the factory, because those make sense to factory run, and so on.
Now, regarding pricing. I charge 10 cpu on chassis and 20 for components, with looted components on a scale that depends on how stats compare to the crafted stuff, and that may go up if the resource market doesn't stabilize soon, but I digress. there are people selling loot for 5K a pop regardless... there are people doing ships for 3cpu across the board. Some quality is good, some is bad. Yet, despite this huge disparity, people frequent my shop, and they buy lots of merchandise. And they see other prices, and they come back. Why?
Lots of reasons. But I can sum up, by saying this: I found out today, from customers in my shop when they came to pick up orders I'd finished, that I have a reputation on this server. I am known to be one of if not the most expensive Shipwrights on Kettemoor, apparently. However, I am apparently also known to be one of if not the most consistant Shipwrights on the server with regards to quality, service, and honesty. I was thanked no less then three times today alone for living up tothat reputation. I value my product, i value my time, and i value the credits my customers pay and I value their happiness with the product. And this all means that The CUSTOMER now values my product, and my time, and my store policies MORE then they value their credits paid me. And that is where the key lies. Show a strong face, and you are strong. People like free stuff, and cheap stuff, and deals. But they don't trust them. I get a lot of tells to the effect of "I found [X] for [cheap price]. Do these stats sound good?" They expect a catch at that price. they expect poor quality. They ask me, because they know my standards are high, that I know my profession, and that I'll give the answer to them straight. And i think they know that the 3cpu Shipwright doesn't value their product and doesn't wish to spend the kind of time with the customer and profession that warrants the higher prices. And I'm sorry, but that's not the way the profession is designed. Noone told you to play it if you don't like that.
You don't have to answer every question posed you. You don't. People look to you for authority and answers-- of course. you build the things, you should know a lot about them. If you don't... well. But that DOESN'T mean you need to answer them all and sell yourself short. Shipwrights are busy. Good Shipwrights are VERY busy. It isn't bad customer service to say "You'll have to place an email order, and I'll get to you soon" or "I'm backlogged-- I can't take more orders" or "I have a lot of work right now, please leave an email and i'll get back to you." It isn't bad to say "I can't handle questions right now, i'm really busy." It isn't offputting to put up and afk message saying that you're busy with something, "if this is in regards to parts or a ship, please email and I'll get back to you on it". If this is enough to make them get bent out of shape... if being busy because you are a shipwright that does a lot of work is something they aren't prepared to deal with, they DO NOT value your time. You need to value it, and if a prospective client doesn't value you and your work and your time when they approach you, they never will. You don't have time for that nonsense. You have paying customers to deal with. Your time and attention has a value. Period. But *you* have to assign it. Don't be afraid to be busy. Don't be afraid to say no. the majority of the time, It's more impressive to a potential customer that you are thought highly enough of that you don't have time for random tells. And you don't have to be a waspish, grumpy SW to value your time like this. Simply show that when you are giving a customer attention, that's where your attention is, and everyone's turn comes. But DO NOT let the customer run the show. They aren't always right. It isn't a truism. many players treat Doctors, entertainers, smugglers, IDs, WSes, ASes, and now Shipwrights as if they're just NPCs. To be used at the convenience ofthe player. "Buff me." "Tip you for heals? lol." "Slice my gun." "make me a ship now." "make me a gun, I'll pay." part of this is what they're used to. AFK entertainers. Buffbots. Crafter vendors where you can find 1000 identical suits of uber-composite. You don't have to act like one, though.
You don't have to spend all your time crafting. You don't need a factory. You don't need a vendor stocked with hundreds of items. you don't need to beat the server's other prices. You don't need to devote all your play time, casual or otherwise, to the profession to succeed. it can be done, and done well. Forget the other professions. Forget the ground game, this is a JTL profession, and space teaches us that JTL is NOT the game we know. Unlearn what you have learned. Free your mind. Try something new. Shift your paradigm. reassess your values. Value yourself. Value your time.
because, in the end, if you can't pull off any of those things, a little thing like factory support isn't going to save you. With or without them, you won't be sticking around in the long haul.
zineotic wrote:
...while most feel factories are needed, if you take the high road and resist, you look like the valor. True crafters are those who do it to help others in the game... but it really makes it undesirable when they make it so complicated to do it without being a robot.Message Edited by zineotic on 11-04-2004 03:22 AM
Zineotic, this is a hyperbolic statement. It certainly is NOT true that most SWs feel factories are needed.
As for the poster above who said a casual SW can offer nothing, I have to call foul on that statement as well. A casual shipwright, as I'm becoming as the honeymoon wears off, has plenty to offer, and in fact my business is doing VERY well as a casual SW.
It would help if people quit speaking for others. Speak for yourselves.
Message Edited by CerionSkydreamer on 11-04-2004 05:09 AM
CapnKate wrote:
Snip ...
The CUSTOMER now values my product, and my time, and my store policies MORE then they value their credits paid me.
Snip ...
People like free stuff, and cheap stuff, and deals. But they don't trust them. I get a lot of tells to the effect of "I found [X] for [cheap price]. Do these stats sound good?" They expect a catch at that price. they expect poor quality. They ask me, because they know my standards are high, that I know my profession, and that I'll give the answer to them straight.
Snip ...
if a prospective client doesn't value you and your work and your time when they approach you, they never will. You don't have time for that nonsense. You have paying customers to deal with. Your time and attention has a value. Period.
Snip ...
But DO NOT let the customer run the show. They aren't always right.
the above is EXACTLY how I run my shop as well andI get the same response. If you take pride in what you do and set "quality" above "quantity" you well be respected and have plenty of very loyle well paying customers. this is how I Have run my DE shop for the last 15 months and now that I have shipwright as well.My customers knowI charge higher than normal prices but pay me more than I ask, most refuse go to a fellow DE/SWI have tryed to refer them to for faster sevice and say thay can wait as long as it takes to get the product from me,becouse thay knowI stand by my product and always strive to putthere need ahead ofthe "fast buck".
Snip ...
because, in the end, if you can't pull off any of those things, a little thing like factory support isn't going to save you. With or without them, you won't be sticking around in the long haul.
This is one of the best postsI have read in along time. every word rings true. Five stars for you.
as I have said before "factory crafting is NOT the "end game" for a true crafter itsonly the "middle game". "
[EDIT]
let me refine that statment sence its now taken out of its origanal context.I beleve factories are needed in the game and if you use them youmay still be a true crafter. but again (in my humble opinion) its only the "middle game". and you will get to a point where credits are not as important as making the customer the "perfect" probuct for that persons needs. where stocking a vendor for the masses is not your place. where building orders by hand with care and quality is more important. this is whatI beleve is the crafters "end game".
Sorry ifit just sounded meen the way it was above.
Message Edited by babyblue_d on 11-04-2004 05:26 AM