Shipwright Archive
Thread: One Newbie Pilot’s Desires of the Shipwright Vendors
Greetings! Fledgling pilot here (yes, some of us in fact DO still exist). And after dragging my lowly-skilled carcass from one end of the galaxy to the other in painfully ill-equipped fashion--braving the likes of commerce pirates, rabid baby creatures, and the tedium of long distances on foot because I can’t afford a decent speeder yet--all just to have the privilege of entering one of your fine establishments, I have a few comments to make.
You might call them tips, you might call them rants, you might even call them inane dribblings, but I think it’s time a few of you “masters” at least hear the cries of a potential customer viewing your profession from a perspective you have apparently long-since forgotten….
1. Location, Location, Location
Yeah, you all know this one reasonably well, but allow me to drill it a little further home from my POV.
If you want me in your shop, it needs to be accessible to me. Close proximity to a starport is ideal (ie. no more than a few kilometers), close proximity to only a shuttle port is OK, and close proximity to neither of these is a pretty good guarantee I won’t be stopping by any time soon. The problem isn’t just a matter of distance and time spent traveling—if I have to fight my way to your shop due to random spawns, chances are I will be incapped or killed along the way. This adds a whole new level of frustration for us newbs who can have enough trouble just scrabbling credits together to pay off insurance as it is. I’ve actually given up visiting someone’s shop due to this on several occasions.
Shuttles cost money too for that matter, which is why it’s somewhat of a pain to beginners to have to use one to reach you safely and quickly—and may deter us from visiting if funds are low or we just value our creds for other uses--but it’s still MUCH better than hoofing it in the back country.
2. The “Other” Side of Customer Service
I’ve seen it hammered into you in the FAQs and guides here: customer service is key. But what is usually discussed is stuff like treating your customers well, being accessible, and providing personalized service. These are all good things of course, and I encourage the practice. But guess what? Sometimes we want you to shut the hell up and let us browse/buy on our own without being bothered, probed, or doted upon. If you’ve ever gone to a store and had an irritating salesman follow you around, you know exactly what I’m talking about.
Balance is important here. Not all your customers want to chat it up with you—some us in fact don’t even care to look at you. heh. A brief, pleasant greeting and an indication that you are happy to help and/or answer questions should we need assistance is good enough, then step back and be silent while we shop. If we have a desire to discuss in detail the ideal specific mass/thrust ratio for a Mark II booster, by the Emperor we’ll ASK YOU. This ensures a pleasant buying experience for all customer personality types and will increase your repeats. And while this point may be true of all customers—not just us newbs—it’s a perfect tie-in for my next point.
3. Stupid Good-for-Nothing “Empty” Vendor Says What?
Many of us don’t want to have to ask you for specific items either. So where the hell are the Scyks, Dunelizards, Z-95s, Y-Wings, TIE LDs, and TIE Fs? Don’t just assume that hand-me-downs are in good circulation. Whether by accident or design, a fledgling pilot’s very first thrill of actually—you know--ACQUIRING HIS OWN SHIP is an exercise in frustrating futility because the vast majority of you seem reluctant to stock these “low tier” vessels on your vendors. Have you forgotten the substantial increase in experience it takes to gain access to the next tier of ships? Some of us are gonna be logging some serious mission time for a good while before we can, and doing it in the non-upgradeable starter vessel only makes it more difficult. And on up the chain, etc., for that matter.
Your vendor should stock at least a few items of each tier of both chassis and components. I’ll leave the factional choices up to you—if you want to be known as an “Imperial vendor only” or whatever, that’s your business—it’ll just be a less profitable one. After all, if I can’t use the items your vendor is selling because they are too high a tier (or faction-prohibitive), then that vendor might as well be empty to me.
And remember who you are targeting with those goods: marking up a Tier 1 item 1000% because you can isn’t lazy or greedy—it’s just stupid. Those who can afford such prices likely don’t need the components. If you wanna charge a high premium for your top notch YT-1300 or Firespray, by all means go right ahead. But don’t try to make huge profits on the lower tier stuff—you’re just going to frustrate your potential customers and yourself. And frankly, a 15,000 credit asking price on a Mark I Droid Interface is an insult—we’re green, not idiots. A savvy vendor might even discount lower-tier items for the future business (*poke*).
4. Companion Component Stocking is Your Friend
Yeah, I’m talking to you, Mr. “I sell one type of counter measure pack only”. Hell, let’s not even go there yet—let’s start with something more basic: If you are going to sell a missle/cm launcher or a certain type of missle/cm pack, the LEAST you can do is also stock the complimentary gun or the ammo that go with them. Stocking one or the other only just means I’ve gotta scramble all over the place to find the appropriate other item for use. And yeah, I know you only buy the launcher once, but guess whose vendor I’m gonna latch onto?—that’s right, the one who makes the gun AND ammo both available to me the first time.
Next, you ought to think about storing as many of the different types of both missle and countermeasure packs as you can. If I’m in your shop and I have a micro-chaff launcher and all you provide is sensor decoys, I’m gonna take my business elsewhere (and maybe for good). And while I’m on this subject, it wouldn’t hurt your business to stock—at a minimum—blank programming chips. You could do worse by not stocking astromechs/flight computers as well. Yeah, I know that isn’t necessarily your thing--I’d still find a Droid Engineer supplier for the chips at least.
5. Why Should I Give A Bantha’s Butt?
Lastly, I see a few of your minds still working—“I can make good money on high-tier, high quality components—why should I waste my time stocking lower-priced, low-tier stuff that won’t move nearly as fast as the other items or yield as high a profit?”.
My answer to that is simple: don’t care if I drop my measly little 500 credits of hard-earned cash on your vendor? Fine. Someone else eventually will, and guess who I’m going to be coming back to for repeat business again and again on my way to master pilot? Hint: don’t look at your name tag. It’s just human nature. I’ve been amazed that, at least in my galaxy, finding a decent shipwright vendor who will cater to the needs of the lower-tier pilot has been such a daunting task in comparison to the other merchant types.
If I finally find a vendor reasonably close, accessible without being overbearing, and fully stocked with everything I need from the beginning who doesn’t look like he’s out to gouge me, I’m going to be plopping down a waypoint to come back again and again. I won’t even mind if some of the higher quality items are a little pricier as I advance. And who knows? Over the course of my long and industrious flying career, I might even start to feel comfortable enough to want to deal with the owner of my favorite space shop directly for some custom work.
Additions, comments, and criticisms welcome.
ps. This is not the thread to advertise your shop as a response. Heh.
Blade wrote:
Greetings! Fledgling pilot here (yes, some of us in fact DO still exist). And after dragging my lowly-skilled carcass from one end of the galaxy to the other in painfully ill-equipped fashion--braving the likes of commerce pirates, rabid baby creatures, and the tedium of long distances on foot because I can’t afford a decent speeder yet--all just to have the privilege of entering one of your fine establishments, I have a few comments to make.
You might call them tips, you might call them rants, you might even call them inane dribblings, but I think it’s time a few of you “masters” at least hear the cries of a potential customer viewing your profession from a perspective you have apparently long-since forgotten….
1. Location, Location, Location
Yeah, you all know this one reasonably well, but allow me to drill it a little further home from my POV.
If you want me in your shop, it needs to be accessible to me. Close proximity to a starport is ideal (ie. no more than a few kilometers), close proximity to only a shuttle port is OK, and close proximity to neither of these is a pretty good guarantee I won’t be stopping by any time soon. The problem isn’t just a matter of distance and time spent traveling—if I have to fight my way to your shop due to random spawns, chances are I will be incapped or killed along the way. This adds a whole new level of frustration for us newbs who can have enough trouble just scrabbling credits together to pay off insurance as it is. I’ve actually given up visiting someone’s shop due to this on several occasions.
Shuttles cost money too for that matter, which is why it’s somewhat of a pain to beginners to have to use one to reach you safely and quickly—and may deter us from visiting if funds are low or we just value our creds for other uses--but it’s still MUCH better than hoofing it in the back country.
Why? With the advent of travelling in one's ship, one can go from one startport to another in a blink of an eye. Shuttles cost a relatively small amount. Shuttle wait times have become neglible. BARC speeders are faster than any vehicle ever. Finally, the Galactic Search option on public bazaar saves you hours of looking all over the galaxy for your desires.
While you're ahead, you should stop complaining and ask some veteran players what things were like back when SWG first went live. There was no ships until JTL. The only means of travel was to use the public system. Shuttleport and starport wait times were 10 minutes. There were no mounts or speeders. There was no Galactic Search option on public bazaar. Sometimes you'd spend weeks looking whatever you desired. Location WAS important then. I would say it is much less so now.
2. The “Other” Side of Customer Service
I’ve seen it hammered into you in the FAQs and guides here: customer service is key. But what is usually discussed is stuff like treating your customers well, being accessible, and providing personalized service. These are all good things of course, and I encourage the practice. But guess what? Sometimes we want you to shut the hell up and let us browse/buy on our own without being bothered, probed, or doted upon. If you’ve ever gone to a store and had an irritating salesman follow you around, you know exactly what I’m talking about.
Balance is important here. Not all your customers want to chat it up with you—some us in fact don’t even care to look at you. heh. A brief, pleasant greeting and an indication that you are happy to help and/or answer questions should we need assistance is good enough, then step back and be silent while we shop. If we have a desire to discuss in detail the ideal specific mass/thrust ratio for a Mark II booster, by the Emperor we’ll ASK YOU. This ensures a pleasant buying experience for all customer personality types and will increase your repeats. And while this point may be true of all customers—not just us newbs—it’s a perfect tie-in for my next point.
I have a news flash for you. First, our vendors typically don't have a lot on them because we have extremely limited manufacturing capabilities. Second, you talk about approach, but telling us to "shut the hell up"? The last customer that was impolite in my shop was quietly ban from it. His loss--I'll make out at the end of the day anyways.
3. Stupid Good-for-Nothing “Empty” Vendor Says What?
Many of us don’t want to have to ask you for specific items either. So where the hell are the Scyks, Dunelizards, Z-95s, Y-Wings, TIE LDs, and TIE Fs? Don’t just assume that hand-me-downs are in good circulation. Whether by accident or design, a fledgling pilot’s very first thrill of actually—you know--ACQUIRING HIS OWN SHIP is an exercise in frustrating futility because the vast majority of you seem reluctant to stock these “low tier” vessels on your vendors. Have you forgotten the substantial increase in experience it takes to gain access to the next tier of ships? Some of us are gonna be logging some serious mission time for a good while before we can, and doing it in the non-upgradeable starter vessel only makes it more difficult. And on up the chain, etc., for that matter.
Your vendor should stock at least a few items of each tier of both chassis and components. I’ll leave the factional choices up to you—if you want to be known as an “Imperial vendor only” or whatever, that’s your business—it’ll just be a less profitable one. After all, if I can’t use the items your vendor is selling because they are too high a tier (or faction-prohibitive), then that vendor might as well be empty to me.
And remember who you are targeting with those goods: marking up a Tier 1 item 1000% because you can isn’t lazy or greedy—it’s just stupid. Those who can afford such prices likely don’t need the components. If you wanna charge a high premium for your top notch YT-1300 or Firespray, by all means go right ahead. But don’t try to make huge profits on the lower tier stuff—you’re just going to frustrate your potential customers and yourself. And frankly, a 15,000 credit asking price on a Mark I Droid Interface is an insult—we’re green, not idiots. A savvy vendor might even discount lower-tier items for the future business (*poke*).'
Again, you have demonstrated your lack of understanding concerning our situation. First, we have limited manufacturing capabilities. Most of the important items have to be manufactured by hand. Second, resource requireemnts are so intense that committing resources to items to place them on the vendor isn't always the best approach for survival. Third, since RotW went live, demand is so high that keeping our vendors stocked has become nearly impossible. Finally, prices are high for two reasons: steep resource requirements and high demand.
4. Companion Component Stocking is Your Friend
Yeah, I’m talking to you, Mr. “I sell one type of counter measure pack only”. Hell, let’s not even go there yet—let’s start with something more basic: If you are going to sell a missle/cm launcher or a certain type of missle/cm pack, the LEAST you can do is also stock the complimentary gun or the ammo that go with them. Stocking one or the other only just means I’ve gotta scramble all over the place to find the appropriate other item for use. And yeah, I know you only buy the launcher once, but guess whose vendor I’m gonna latch onto?—that’s right, the one who makes the gun AND ammo both available to me the first time.
Next, you ought to think about storing as many of the different types of both missle and countermeasure packs as you can. If I’m in your shop and I have a micro-chaff launcher and all you provide is sensor decoys, I’m gonna take my business elsewhere (and maybe for good). And while I’m on this subject, it wouldn’t hurt your business to stock—at a minimum—blank programming chips. You could do worse by not stocking astromechs/flight computers as well. Yeah, I know that isn’t necessarily your thing--I’d still find a Droid Engineer supplier for the chips at least.
You must think we Shipwrights stupid, right? This is exactly what we do; however, what is going to stop someone from coming in and buying just a launcher or just the pack? And like I said, the high resource requirements and high demand right now make it difficult to keep vendors stocked the way you would like. This isn't our job--it is a game.
5. Why Should I Give A Bantha’s Butt?
Lastly, I see a few of your minds still working—“I can make good money on high-tier, high quality components—why should I waste my time stocking lower-priced, low-tier stuff that won’t move nearly as fast as the other items or yield as high a profit?”.
My answer to that is simple: don’t care if I drop my measly little 500 credits of hard-earned cash on your vendor? Fine. Someone else eventually will, and guess who I’m going to be coming back to for repeat business again and again on my way to master pilot? Hint: don’t look at your name tag. It’s just human nature. I’ve been amazed that, at least in my galaxy, finding a decent shipwright vendor who will cater to the needs of the lower-tier pilot has been such a daunting task in comparison to the other merchant types.
If I finally find a vendor reasonably close, accessible without being overbearing, and fully stocked with everything I need from the beginning who doesn’t look like he’s out to gouge me, I’m going to be plopping down a waypoint to come back again and again. I won’t even mind if some of the higher quality items are a little pricier as I advance. And who knows? Over the course of my long and industrious flying career, I might even start to feel comfortable enough to want to deal with the owner of my favorite space shop directly for some custom work.
Additions, comments, and criticisms welcome.
ps. This is not the thread to advertise your shop as a response. Heh.
Given your particularly crappy attitude, I wouldn't want you visiting my shop anyways.
One last note, your attitude is terrible. However, I consider myself a fair person. Thus, I think you need to take your character up Shipwright and a little Merchant and try it on for size. You might be a little less generous in handing out your obviously skewed and biased opinions on the subject matter after you have given it shot.
Good luck.
Points noted JF.
Thanks for taking the time to counter. Nice to see my post wasn't taken personally 
I do not wish to argue with you or to appear to provide a lack of compassion or sympathy for the limitationsof Shipwrights. I'm sure I could learn a great deal of the difficulties Shipwrights face by going through it--I simply have no desire. Which is MY problem I suppose. 
As for my poor attitude--*shrug* maybe it's just my style. Keep in mind I'm telling you what I WANT--doesn't mean I'm gonna get it--but that automatically puts my post in a selfish framework to begin with.
I can't tell you how many times I put up at least three missile launchers and a TON of Ammo packs only to have ONE launcher purchased and ALL of my ammo packs purchased... Talk about frustrating!
I also have, sitting on my vendor, a large quantity of All-Purpose Repair kits, which are priced QUITE a bit under what it would cost someone to regularly Space Station repair their starships, but THEY NEVER GET SOLD! What's wrong with all the pilots, not buying my inexpensive All-Purpose repair kits. They are just tossing money out of the economy by using the outsourced labor and parts from space station repairs.
It's also really annoying to have a vendor full of starfighters and have only one sell every 3 or 4 weeks. It has become an excersise in futility to keep crafting those post grind to Master. At one time, I did have a vendor, within a well known and well stocked mall that was loaded up with ships, from the various tiers. After three weeks of selling nothing, I cut the prices down and still sold nothing, but that didn't stop other shipwrights in that mall from flipping out and calling foul because I was "undercutting" them.
Eventually, I took a nearly 3 month hiatus from the game and let that vendor decay to nothing. Since then, I simply haven't had interest in mining the resources to craft any ships to leave sitting on my vendor. In fact, if anyone asks me to craft a ship for them, even guildmates, I advise them to go find the resources for me and then I will craft for them the chassis at a massively reduced price. I have had three people take me up on that.
Resource hunting for starship chassis just ain't my thing. I would rather hunt out high quality resources to craft the exceptional starship components that I do regularly sell.
If you have a problem with that, to bad. The reality of Shipwright economics is diametrically opposed to the reality you want to see exist.
Message Edited by rols_cerentz on 07-25-2005 11:28 AM
Blade wrote:
Greetings! Fledgling pilot here (yes, some of us in fact DO still exist). And after dragging my lowly-skilled carcass from one end of the galaxy to the other in painfully ill-equipped fashion--braving the likes of commerce pirates, rabid baby creatures, and the tedium of long distances on foot because I can’t afford a decent speeder yet--all just to have the privilege of entering one of your fine establishments, I have a few comments to make.
You might call them tips, you might call them rants, you might even call them inane dribblings, but I think it’s time a few of you “masters” at least hear the cries of a potential customer viewing your profession from a perspective you have apparently long-since forgotten….
1. Location, Location, Location
Location can be tough to swing depending on what you consider a perfect location, I've seen existingfront row buildings south of Theed go on auction and its not a pretty sight. Given that starships can only be launched from NPC cities, I generally consider a location close to an NPC city to be more valuable then a Player City. Now if player cities could have starports, that emphasis would change.
2. The “Other” Side of Customer Service
I have a vendor, you want to shop go ahead. If I happen to be in my Mall, I'll say Hi and ask if you are finding everything alright as will any of the other merchants in my guild. If you can't find something, you will be refered to the appropriate merchant within our guild. I'll get chatty on custom orders, otherwise I let my vendor do my talking (so to speak).
3. Stupid Good-for-Nothing “Empty” Vendor Says What?
Some people run small outfits and can not afford the massive resource requirements to be a high quality chassis vendor. I am one of them. If a customer needs a chassis, I know the names and locations of a couple of nearby 12-pt chassis SW's who specialize in using high quality resources. If I'm filling a custom order that includes a chassis, I will make good use of my neighbors typically with no mark-up for returning customers.
Vendors take alot of time to stock, every final part is handcrafted. Not to mention I can spend all Friday night and Saturday morning crafting, and it will be stripped clean by Sunday evening. The JtL launch and Christmas holiday's were killer for SWs, as vendors emptied as fast as you could craft. RotW launch neared the JtL launch levels vendor turn-over. I work to keep tier 3 and lower equipment stocked, it sells fast and builds a good reputation with low level pilots who will return later for higher level custom equipment.
4. Companion Component Stocking is Your Friend
I believe the mention of one person cleaning out the packs has been mentioned.
5. Why Should I Give A Bantha’s Butt?
Low level pilots who are return customers equal high level pilots with credits to burn on custom equipment. Nough said.
Additions, comments, and criticisms welcome.
ps. This is not the thread to advertise your shop as a response. Heh.
Ahh, pst location in sig.
Galaxy vendor search is your friend. It will save you a lot of time, trouble and travel.
Slim Vargo, Corbantis
Additionally I have a lot of reverse engeneered items.
I never talk to my customers, because I am crafting at my station like a machine to keep my vendor stocked. Usually I feel disturbed when a customer asks me something, but I will always be polite and helpful.
And guess what: all items sell in no time. I cannot craft as fast as they sell, regardless of type, sorry. And sorry again, my pices are high because of this high demand (all hand crafted like armor 30 cpu (uber quality), all factory produced like missiles 20 cpu (uber quality again), all chassis 5 cpu (made from medium quality resources)).
I burn a lot of resources each week, and ususally I have to buy some additionally, especially for the chassis.
heh--since when does one need to become a supplier in ordertohave the right to bea dissatisfied customer?!!!
Bottom line: I don't wanna be a crafter---that's what I have you guys for.
Its frustrating to SWs as much as pilots, the only way to keep quality parts on vendors right now is to jack up prices. I can promise that if I had factory support, my vendors would always be fully stocked and at a fraction of my current prices.
Just my two credits, Im sure many SWs would strongly disagree.
Blade wrote:
heh--since when does one need to become a supplier in ordertohave the right to bea dissatisfied customer?!!!
Bottom line: I don't wanna be a crafter---that's what I have you guys for.
There is a well known and well used phrase that stick to mind here;
dont knock it, until you've tried it.
You dont wanna be a crafter, fine. You arent satisfied with one or two vendors that were in all honesty either busy trying to procure resources, or off doing missions to make ends meet (i know that was the case when i started out, the resource cost alone was horrendous), good for you. But where do you get off trying to rudely suggest that we are slack (yes, thats what i gathered from your post)?
How dare you come into the shipwright forums and post 'ideas' on how to make a more successful vendor for aspiring pilots, when you dont have the first idea of what its like to be a SW? Sure, you're a pilot and you know what you want.. but then again so does every other combat profession out there. Difference is, it is alot more time consuming, and resource consuming i might add,to fill vendors with every single part imaginable just on the off chance that someone will come in and buy more than maybe 1 or 2 parts at a time, making our hours of crafting worth while.
Now dont get me wrong, i'm not saying that we feel that people who purchase only a few parts from our vendors are worthless, because if it wasnt for them, we wouldnt have money (since this is how most of our sales are done). RARELY are we commissioned to make a ship, components, ammunition and so forth ALL AT ONCE, as is the case with perhaps, an armoursmith, nor are we able to utilise factories to speed up the process making it easier for us to put components out there.
best advice for you, chum, is to move along.. because your kicking and screaming wont be viewed with as much respect and consideration as it would have been if you had asked politely, or objectively. Yes, you are an arrogant space pilot, i've seen your like before, and i'm sure i'll see them again. I dont care how dissatisfied you are, you want respect? you want to be listened to? then you state calmly and objectively what you would like to see happen. I could almost certainly guarantee that if you were running a business, and someone came to you badmouthing your entire profession, telling you how to run things, you'd be at least a little irate.
/endrant
Many shipwrights get burned out, and leave the profession. SW seems to have a higher turn-over percentage then other crafting professions.
Blade wrote:
3. The number of practicing Shipwrights is low.
Maybe there just simply aren't enough shipwrights in the game yet. It would certainly account for the lack of supply if few people attempted to make a living as one. There could be any number of reasons why theprofession doesn't attract the same numbers as the other crafting types. Difficulty in getting started, maintaining a consistent production, and all the factors I listed in item 2 could all be contributors. Heck, maybe it's just too damn boring for most players (but based on comments here, I don't think that one is particularly the case). Once again, the developers would be the ones to see those numbers, and if low, try to do what they can to attract more players to the profession.