Shipwright Archive
Thread: What CAN we, and what CAN'T we make schematics for?
Roadracer wrote:
This bother me. I have a life. There should be no reason why Shipwrights can't use a factory. I don't have time to make all the Mark upgrades to keep a stocked vendor. Your talking about 10-15 upgrades per ship.
but I agree we should get factories.
Iggep wrote:
errrm. Ouch. For some reason I thought it was discussed yesterday if we redeed our factories they could accept schematics. Guess I got confused as to which schematics were being talked about. What the heck was SOE thinking that we couldn't use factories for ship components? Thats a little outrageous. Lets see.... run off 200-300 ship chassis by hand. Then run off 10 or so ship component per ship chassis by hand? They crazy?? I've already got orders for components coming out of my ears and I can't keep up.
wellt hats the essense of the argument. they dont WANT u to run off that many. the more realistic number is something liek 2-3 of each chassis for each tier up to 3, and custom chassis above tier 3. and 3 of each component up to tier 3. thats alot fo craftign still, but its got soem variety and i have been fairly sucessful doing that, and making xwings and stuff custom for customers who email me.
pneumonic81 wrote:
Iggep wrote:
errrm. Ouch. For some reason I thought it was discussed yesterday if we redeed our factories they could accept schematics. Guess I got confused as to which schematics were being talked about. What the heck was SOE thinking that we couldn't use factories for ship components? Thats a little outrageous. Lets see.... run off 200-300 ship chassis by hand. Then run off 10 or so ship component per ship chassis by hand? They crazy?? I've already got orders for components coming out of my ears and I can't keep up.
wellt hats the essense of the argument. they dont WANT u to run off that many. the more realistic number is something liek 2-3 of each chassis for each tier up to 3, and custom chassis above tier 3. and 3 of each component up to tier 3. thats alot fo craftign still, but its got soem variety and i have been fairly sucessful doing that, and making xwings and stuff custom for customers who email me.
Nobodie's going to run a successful business like that. You can't keep up with demand, and it's simply too much work to do on a daily basis. I can't think of a single good reason why we shouldn't be able to factories. Don;t mind the hull situation, but the ship components are to varied and too much to ask us to do them by hand over the long term.
Iggep wrote:
errrm. Ouch. For some reason I thought it was discussed yesterday if we redeed our factories they could accept schematics. Guess I got confused as to which schematics were being talked about. What the heck was SOE thinking that we couldn't use factories for ship components? Thats a little outrageous. Lets see.... run off 200-300 ship chassis by hand. Then run off 10 or so ship component per ship chassis by hand? They crazy?? I've already got orders for components coming out of my ears and I can't keep up.
I'm not trying to be rude - but don't keep up! Either adjust your prices upward to make a balance between what you can charge and what you are comfortable investing timewise, or even better - form an alliance with several friendly builders on your server and refer excess business amongst yourselves. There is no rule saying you have to fill every order personally and make every credit possible.
I'm not really ranting at you, but I am one of those that is glad that shipwright is not 'factoryable' to give those of us without 300 traded lots and spare factories etc a change to participate. Hand crafting is a pain in the ass - but it an equitable pain in the ass. The only argument contrary says you want to fly, fight and build all at once on one account - but you really can't have your cake and eat it to. I sympathize for those caught out in the no factory policy but I don't want to see it change.
Best of luck with your business.
Beladan wrote:
Iggep wrote:
errrm. Ouch. For some reason I thought it was discussed yesterday if we redeed our factories they could accept schematics. Guess I got confused as to which schematics were being talked about. What the heck was SOE thinking that we couldn't use factories for ship components? Thats a little outrageous. Lets see.... run off 200-300 ship chassis by hand. Then run off 10 or so ship component per ship chassis by hand? They crazy?? I've already got orders for components coming out of my ears and I can't keep up.I'm not trying to be rude - but don't keep up! Either adjust your prices upward to make a balance between what you can charge and what you are comfortable investing timewise, or even better - form an alliance with several friendly builders on your server and refer excess business amongst yourselves. There is no rule saying you have to fill every order personally and make every credit possible.
I'm not really ranting at you, but I am one of those that is glad that shipwright is not 'factoryable' to give those of us without 300 traded lots and spare factories etc a change to participate. Hand crafting is a pain in the ass - but it an equitable pain in the ass. The only argument contrary says you want to fly, fight and build all at once on one account - but you really can't have your cake and eat it to. I sympathize for those caught out in the no factory policy but I don't want to see it change.
Best of luck with your business.
I just wanted to add that I also don't mind so much that most of the stuff can't be done in a factory run.
Factory runs mean the folks with mountains of resources can essentially corner the market on ships.
How is someone who can only churn out a few of these at a time supposed to keep up?
With factories, it's all about grinding to Master and then just generating a few schematics and doing factory runs.
It gives the novices someone to sell to. Sure their parts may not be the best, but they can churn them out as fast as everyone else.
--
Ibav Ackem
Sending you into space one piece at a time.
People stating that the lack of factory capacity for shipwright is a means toward enabling newcomers simply can't be grounded in reality. My ability to run off components in a factory has no bearing in anyone elses ability to take up the profession. If the shipwright profession is not to have factories for the stated reason, then how do you square that with the fact that armorsmiths and weaponsmiths have them? Better yet, how do you square that with the fact that architects have them? And architect is probably closer to our economic model than the other crafting professions. The logic simply doesn;t stand. Especially when you look at Droid Engineer and Tailor as tertiary examples.
No, we need factory support, and we deserve it. More to the point, our customers deserve it, and that's the bottom line.
Beladan wrote:
Iggep wrote:
It is impossible to corner a market in this game. All one need do is look at the weaponsmiths and armorsmiths as an example. Sure, well stocked smiths have an initial advantage over new comers, but that's the case in all professions is it not? You don;t see any lack of new comers rolling into the weaponsmith or armorsmith trade do we? No. Why? Because there simply is no way to corner anything in the game. There is an unlimited amount of resources. There is no definable way to determine the span of clientele for a given product. There is no way to cutout competitors.
People stating that the lack of factory capacity for shipwright is a means toward enabling newcomers simply can't be grounded in reality. My ability to run off components in a factory has no bearing in anyone elses ability to take up the profession. If the shipwright profession is not to have factories for the stated reason, then how do you square that with the fact that armorsmiths and weaponsmiths have them? Better yet, how do you square that with the fact that architects have them? And architect is probably closer to our economic model than the other crafting professions. The logic simply doesn;t stand. Especially when you look at Droid Engineer and Tailor as tertiary examples.
No, we need factory support, and we deserve it. More to the point, our customers deserve it, and that's the bottom line.Iggep wrote:
It is impossible to corner a market in this game. All one need do is look at the weaponsmiths and armorsmiths as an example. Sure, well stocked smiths have an initial advantage over new comers, but that's the case in all professions is it not? You don;t see any lack of new comers rolling into the weaponsmith or armorsmith trade do we? No. Why? Because there simply is no way to corner anything in the game. There is an unlimited amount of resources. There is no definable way to determine the span of clientele for a given product. There is no way to cutout competitors.That's a pretty bold statement and I guess your experiences are your own - but mine tell me that to try and get in on armorsmithing would pretty much be financial suicide. Why? Because the top two or three on my server have traded lots all over the galaxy, have already made credits in the billions, have the liquidity to buy experience enhancing crafting suits that cost upward of 75 million credits and can simply outcraft me from the get go.
"Can" I get in on armorsmith and probably scratch around the pickings by undercutting price and what not? Probably. Could I really reasonably expect to 'compete' with the behemoths of my server given their resources and passion? Probably not. I could tinker around the edges. Part of their advantage lies solely in the fact that these guys can run 10-20 or more factories on one character because of lot trades, freeing them up to place storage houses and merchant tents and in some cases, miners if they aren't lot traded also.
No offence, but you argument of unlimited resources = unlimited sales is spurious at best.
People stating that the lack of factory capacity for shipwright is a means toward enabling newcomers simply can't be grounded in reality. My ability to run off components in a factory has no bearing in anyone elses ability to take up the profession. If the shipwright profession is not to have factories for the stated reason, then how do you square that with the fact that armorsmiths and weaponsmiths have them? Better yet, how do you square that with the fact that architects have them? And architect is probably closer to our economic model than the other crafting professions. The logic simply doesn;t stand. Especially when you look at Droid Engineer and Tailor as tertiary examples.I agree. It's not a means towards enabling newcomers - it's a means towards enabling equitable crafting between all crafters. The lack of ability to run of parts in a factory means that you can't simply garner a whole bunch of accounts/lots, crank out crap by the boatload and swamp the market using KMart like volume/profit margins to price out everyone else.
Possibly unintended but also a good thing in my (probably hated) opinion is that It also works to stop the Sunday cowboys who want the best of both worlds but fighting all night and whipping off the odd chassis. It forces (and I know people won't appreciate this) shipwright to be a profession for the real crafters - those that love the cut and thrust of creating and combining. For those folks, shipwright is ideal. If you simply want to mass produce a product, take up DE. Crank out all the stuff you want to. If you want a profession that requires careful attention to detail, the ability to get dirty with the crafting process, the interaction with a customer base and to really be respected as a 'crafter', then take up shipwright. Honestly, it's not that hard to create this stuff and stack your vendor and still have plenty of time to whizz through space shooting the crap out of things. If your primary focus is combat and not crafting, then what does it matter what crafting profession you want? Get something easy like architect where you can grind quick, sell high and automate factory runs.
And I square it with the fact that other professions have factories for two reasons:
1. The above argument that this is a crafter's profession and not a filler cashcow profession for fighterjocks, and
2. The devs wised up. They also made master via xp and not ap. Why? Because it makes more sense in a game that is a year older now. Just because they borked the original way of doing things does not mean they are bound to do it that way forever and ever and ever. I would not be surprised to see other professions lose the AP requirement for master and see it swapped out for XP based advancement. Obviously, removing factories from existing professions would be untenable (As much as I would actually like to see it done in some cases) but it doesn't mean they cannot experiment with new models going forward. I think we are seeing a new model and I think it will work well.
Finally, for what it's worth, any tailor worth their salt knows that it's well and good to create metal fasteners in a crate from a factory (partly because their schematics FORCE them to use one - ours don't) but they also know that they sell via custom assembly at order time. They are a better example of how and why our profession doesn't 'need' factories moreso than they are an argument of why we do.
No, we need factory support, and we deserve it. More to the point, our customers deserve it, and that's the bottom line.When does the collection plate come because I can see the sermon has begun already... Nice rhetoric though. Throw in a 'Truth, Justice and the American Way" and it would be 'super.'
LOL. It CAN NOT be squared. In a discussion such as this, we must use logic. It stands to reason that the same "arguement" must be able to be made for all crafting professions, or it can not be made for Shipwright. The FACT is that new armorsmiths and weaponsmiths join those professions every day, and go on to become well known and rich smiths. If you want to flout your opinion on the matter, thats fine, but lets filter out opinon and stick to facts when discussing something as important as this.