Shipwright Archive
Thread: Would making SW able to craft Better than looted really be better??
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Odajja
Sun Dec 12, 2004 4:45 am
#1
Would it be better For the Whole Game or just more of a uber cash cow. Yes I know you need to make Credits. But the income of the pilot as comp to the prices charged.
Convince Me a Pilot why we should push for the SW to get the Better than Looted!
Velneth
Sun Dec 12, 2004 7:07 am
#2
Quality item avaliability. With bringing crafted componants up to, or above the average looted part, tier for tier, it'll be avaliable, rather than you having to hunt down the part in space, or go after the auctions.
In general, shipwright's fees are far below auction prices on similarly tiered items, so you'd be saving money.
Not to mention if we can get the crafted items bumped up to loot standards, then we won't start pushing for loot nerfs, or worse, push for only sub componate drops.
In general, shipwright's fees are far below auction prices on similarly tiered items, so you'd be saving money.
Not to mention if we can get the crafted items bumped up to loot standards, then we won't start pushing for loot nerfs, or worse, push for only sub componate drops.
Marzuk147
Sun Dec 12, 2004 8:30 am
#3
I dont think anyone wants to see REd loot bieng better gone - I love my loot. At this point, its just TOO much better, and pretty easy to get too IMO.
I think that certain things need to be looked at like I mentioned in another thread.
Old steel caps at 650 conductivity, and thats a requirement in most of our schematics. Of course I could always wait for that new uber spawn of shipwright steel and pray its 900+ in 3 catagories, but for some reason Im doubting that - because the resource stays in the system 3x as long.
They need to make it such that you can loot upgrades, that make a crafted component better in that area, than a looted and REd item. There also needs to be the possibility of limited run schematics for many more things when you RE. Maybe a random chance for the firespray, a random chance to get a run of 5 for what you RE, and a random chance to get an unrelated schematic.
None of this makes loot inferior or worthless, but it does even things out a bit.
I think that certain things need to be looked at like I mentioned in another thread.
Old steel caps at 650 conductivity, and thats a requirement in most of our schematics. Of course I could always wait for that new uber spawn of shipwright steel and pray its 900+ in 3 catagories, but for some reason Im doubting that - because the resource stays in the system 3x as long.
They need to make it such that you can loot upgrades, that make a crafted component better in that area, than a looted and REd item. There also needs to be the possibility of limited run schematics for many more things when you RE. Maybe a random chance for the firespray, a random chance to get a run of 5 for what you RE, and a random chance to get an unrelated schematic.
None of this makes loot inferior or worthless, but it does even things out a bit.
Kalano
Sun Dec 12, 2004 10:01 am
#4
Velneth wrote:
Quality item avaliability. With bringing crafted componants up to, or above the average looted part, tier for tier, it'll be avaliable, rather than you having to hunt down the part in space, or go after the auctions.
In general, shipwright's fees are far below auction prices on similarly tiered items, so you'd be saving money.
Not to mention if we can get the crafted items bumped up to loot standards, then we won't start pushing for loot nerfs, or worse, push for only sub componate drops.
That is about the opinion that most of the SW have. bring us up just above loot drops, let the RE be where the uber parts come from. So that way they stay rare, and SW feel that they can produce something of value instead of crap grind like all the other crafters.
Insidius
Sun Dec 12, 2004 11:57 am
#5
If you, as a SW find that more people are coming to you to get items RE'd than they are buying your stuff, simply charge them for REing.
*shrugs*
*shrugs*
pervel
Sun Dec 12, 2004 7:40 pm
#6
Insidius wrote:
If you, as a SW find that more people are coming to you to get items RE'd than they are buying your stuff, simply charge them for REing.
*shrugs*
That is not the solution. The problem isn't about how much money we can make. It is about having fun and being satisfied with your profession. Shipwright is a crafting profession. RE is only a minor part of this profession. There is no point in having a crafting profession where most of the crafted items are inferior to what players can loot. It simply defeats the purpose of crafting in the game.
Ryche_Mykola
Sun Dec 12, 2004 8:09 pm
#7
If the devs had any intelligence they would have put in subcomponent loot drops for ship parts. It will keep the SW's involved and crafting while keeping people hoping and hunting for the uber loot drops.
Chavabegga
Sun Dec 12, 2004 10:45 pm
#8
pervel wrote:
Insidius wrote:
If you, as a SW find that more people are coming to you to get items RE'd than they are buying your stuff, simply charge them for REing.
*shrugs*
That is not the solution. The problem isn't about how much money we can make. It is about having fun and being satisfied with your profession. Shipwright is a crafting profession. RE is only a minor part of this profession. There is no point in having a crafting profession where most of the crafted items are inferior to what players can loot. It simply defeats the purpose of crafting in the game.
That is the point right there. It is not about wanting to make money. Its about wanting to be a shipwright and actually make the stuff! I wanted to be a shipwright so I could have fun making ships and all the parts. Its no fun when I can not make a bunch of things that are on par with looted stuff. Right now there is no point in making capacitors, boosters, and almost no point in engines.
Odajja
Sun Dec 12, 2004 11:18 pm
#9
Ryche_Mykola wrote:
If the devs had any intelligence they would have put in subcomponent loot drops for ship parts. It will keep the SW's involved and crafting while keeping people hoping and hunting for the uber loot drops.
Only prob with this is that they would make it like Kryat pearls and such. Thus the same prob we have now. i can see it now WTS KRYAT ION CANNON LVL 1 1billion min 300 billion buyout!!! One thing would be allow crafted to be RE with looted thats a good idea i think it would prob work well. Also i feel missles need to be Nerfed on the materials needed Just make them like spice. set stats. 60k for a pack of 10 proton II is not helping the profession at all. They are not worth it.
Eaca
Mon Dec 13, 2004 1:34 am
#10
I pay my SW's 10k per RE level, and I also bring them all of the parts, already in a tool so all they got to do is click the button. Honestly, other than caps and boosters (and there it's only even level boosters and caps) crafted, is for a vast majority of parts, better than loot. Reactors are almost always better (yes I know there's some 30k+ loot reactors out there, but I've never seen one and I've looted hundreds, the highest I've ever looted was like a 16k L10 one, which is pathetic vs crafted), shields generally suck vs crafted (tho I did get one 2433 front/back L8, but it had very high mass (43k) and moderate energy usage, recharge was relatively low as well), loot guns are either very high mass, or sucky damage if the mass is about equal. Since the engine nerf, most loot engines are very low speed vs new crafted, tho YPR still is way above (that or I've just had the worst luck ever with engine loot), armor is normally either too weak for the weight or very massive for the level, not much experience with DI's, I have one of the old "pre-nerf" L1 DI's, which probably won't get upgraded... ever, since its at minimum condition anyway 
That being said the only crafted item I have in my fighter, is infact the reactor (a very nice 14.2k mark 3 I might add, kudos to tpok on flurry for making it for me 
). Everything else I have on my fighter now is RE'd, that 2433 shield is now 2550, weighs 25k, has about 2k energy usage, and recharges at 14.4. And I payed a SW 80k to make it for me, and I provided everything. One L8 RE'd gun, one L9 RE'd gun, even my armor is RE'd (mostly because of the now free fix in deep space to be honest tho...).
). Everything else I have on my fighter now is RE'd, that 2433 shield is now 2550, weighs 25k, has about 2k energy usage, and recharges at 14.4. And I payed a SW 80k to make it for me, and I provided everything. One L8 RE'd gun, one L9 RE'd gun, even my armor is RE'd (mostly because of the now free fix in deep space to be honest tho...).Honestly I think the real money maker in SW, and this is what I've told every SW I've ever worked with, is to get into the part storage/resell for RE business. Lets face it people sell you what they deem junk, but people that want an RE need that "junk" to RE the good stuff they save. And alsopeople are often stupid about what they deem "junk". They look at a gun and see low max damage and completely ignore the fact that the gun has about 10-20% more min damage than other guns its level, 1/3 the mass, 1/4 the energy use, and the best damage vs armor anyone's ever seen at that level. Is the weapon good for use as it is? No, it rightly sucks most vs crafted most likely. Throw that gun in a RE kit with a gun with good max damage, another gun with good speed, good armor/HP, and another gun with good damage vs shields, and you've just made a SUPER gun for its level.
Personally I think you all should focus more on making money REing (since its effectively "free" or cheap at best for you to do), and worry less about how your crafted stats match up. Lets face it, even with decay there's little incentive for people to upgrade thier parts other than armor or parts that overloads affect, since they still work just fine with 10 armor/hp (that seems to be the lowest it will go). Pilots will always be on the lookout for better parts thru REing tho, no matter how much of a twitch/skill based game JTL is, faster is faster, more damage is more damage, better shields is better shields. Last SW I worked with got handed 5 tools full of parts, 2 minutes later he handed the finished product back to me and recieved an almost 300k tip, not bad for 120 seconds worth of work, no?
Edit to add: Loot hoarding is all the JTL end game pilots really have left, instead of trying to destroy the only fun we can really have, why don't you use it to your advantage and monopolize on it
Message Edited by Eaca on 12-12-2004 12:41 PM
FuryoftheStars
Mon Dec 13, 2004 7:00 am
#11
Pilot speaking here.
From what I have seen, most looted stuff is not better than the crafted items when you compare all the stats. It's when you RE the stuff when it becomes better. But, either way, the only problem I have with crafted becoming better than looted/RE'd is then we end up with a similar loot system in space as what we currently have on the ground. Pointless.
From what I have seen, most looted stuff is not better than the crafted items when you compare all the stats. It's when you RE the stuff when it becomes better. But, either way, the only problem I have with crafted becoming better than looted/RE'd is then we end up with a similar loot system in space as what we currently have on the ground. Pointless.
Jagged-F3l
Mon Dec 13, 2004 7:32 am
#12
Odajja wrote:
Would it be better For the Whole Game or just more of a uber cash cow. Yes I know you need to make Credits. But the income of the pilot as comp to the prices charged.
Convince Me a Pilot why we should push for the SW to get the Better than Looted!
Forget you, the individual. Think about the health of the game as a whole. Think about the health of the community, which is directly linked to the player economy. Giving essential components away hurts the player economy. There is a reason why looted weapons aren't better than that a weaponsmith can make. There is a reason why you don't loot armor. There is a reason why loot a limited schematic for a "cool thing", rather than directly looting that "cool thing".
Furthermore, this topic has a direct relationship to SWs having factory support. The devs have given us a clear answer that they don't want us to have factory support because they envisioned the profession founded on customer-orders and heavy pilot-SW interaction. This contradicts the looted component aspect of the game.
It is clear that the devs feel the space aspect of this game is taking off like they envisioned. I have heardthat the reasonfor space loot and hyperspace-capable starter ships concerns prices. Well, destroying the ability for a SW to make a living is the answer to this problem. This is yet another case of the devs curing the symptom rather than understanding the problem. So, what is the problem? The player economy is inflated. Why? There are many reasons. First, there is too much cash in the player hands. Hopefully the devs fixed one of them when they nerfed solo groups. Second, it is my opinion that the system that the devs gave us for harvesting resources isn't necessarily condusive to something as resource intense as they have made SW. SW has its own problems, and these didn't make themselves evident during beta because the test servers didn't have an economy (i.e., everything was given away).
Rogue1970
Mon Dec 13, 2004 9:07 am
#13
99% of loot is crap.
Items like the 92 speed cert 6 engine exist, but are UBER rare (no longer given as a reward anymore) and will decay. I can make an 89.5 speed cert 7 engine to replace it with anyway - not far off.
The 2433 front/back 43k cert 8 shield is a reward, not loot. It'll decay away anyway and they can buy my 2200 front/back sheild from me then. No other shieldloot comes close to the crafted stats that I've seen yet.
I've seen some killer guns, but I suspect a couple of them are a Tier 4 reward I may have missed getting, as I see exact duplicates of the common one (forgot stats offhand).
There is a rare instance of an Uber reactor dropping - I have a 30k output one myself, but it decays....
In the end I have sold THOUSANDS of parts for 25k-160k each depending on level, and they keep coming back to buy more. They ask me what they can replace their 92 engine with and I tell em. I'll even buy their 5 condition 92's and RE it into a 95.9 if they haven't yet, eventually when I get more cert6 engine loot.
If a shipwright can't meet or beat 99% of loot, they need better resources - not less loot.
I use loot to teach Pilots a lesson, as most of them THINK they have better parts, altho they may only have one or two stellar loot pieces. I can usually match or beat their stats and or improve their mass usage so significantly they are amazed in their ship performance afterwords.
If a shipwright complains about loot - I suggest they stop crafting and Master Pilot first, then re-evaluate their argument. Learn what your pilots know - then you can craft better.
You should also craft the majority of your items out of 900+ stat resources and pay attention to what lines you experiment on.
ALWAYS use a sub-component upgrade unless the situation requires you not to take the mass hit the upgrade plops in (like armor). Basic starship parts are a joke without an upgrade in most cases, and I wouldn't consider putting them in any ship myself. Would you buy 30% composite armor(to compare the difference)? Neither would I.
Compare your stats to the uber armorsmith or weaponsmith on your server who went shipwright and gets uber cash for his parts - if you can't meet or get close to them, figure out why.
Leave loot alone and stop complaining - it's not all that good. It's a nice change to the crafting monotonyand without some nice loot occasionally- why Reverse Engineer anything?
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