Scout Archive
Thread: Taking away getting pets out in camps, I am against it....
The Devs have bowed to the crying, sniveling and whining of the players who were "forced to have Scout" (an actual quote and title of a post) in order to call pets/droids/vehicles.
Never mind that most CHs need to have some scout.
Never mind you can freaking walk if you "accidentally" store a vehicle, or it stores on its own.
Never mind that you can call a pet or droid and leave them out. God forbid they should get hurt and you would have to actually heal them.
However, as more people will now drop Scout, we make out. They now can't harvest. Less harvestors = fewer organic resources. Demand is not going down. Economics says, we raise prices - or if we are smart, we start bartering with a chosen few and poop on the rest.
I think we will make out on this deal, To be determined.
JB
JBMat wrote:
The Devs have bowed to the crying, sniveling and whining of the players who were "forced to have Scout" (an actual quote and title of a post) in order to call pets/droids/vehicles.
Never mind that most CHs need to have some scout.
Never mind you can freaking walk if you "accidentally" store a vehicle, or it stores on its own.
Never mind that you can call a pet or droid and leave them out. God forbid they should get hurt and you would have to actually heal them.
However, as more people will now drop Scout, we make out. They now can't harvest. Less harvestors = fewer organic resources. Demand is not going down. Economics says, we raise prices - or if we are smart, we start bartering with a chosen few and poop on the rest.
I think we will make out on this deal, To be determined.
JB
Master Ranger/Master Rifleman
Eclipse Server
Personally I see this as a good thing for scouts in general. Why? well it will get the people who only take scout for that reason out of the business and less complaining from them.
Then there is the reduction in people who can harvest. Less people harvesting will equal more demand for the product which SHOULD equal more money per product harvested.
I like camps myself. I am guilty of grinding in camp to get the tree over with, but have found that now i go in the wilds with friends, we take a break from hunting, throw up a camp. The artisan takes some time to grind, I resupply my traps, we heal up and take care of guild business. Break camp and i have some nice camp xp.
funny thing about the servers being different. I hear of servers where organics are in short supply and prices are high. I charge around 5cpu (based on the scout guide for quality) and have had a crafter tell me I am WAY overpriced and it should be within the 1-3 cpu range. I told him that he does not need my hides then. ;-)
It wasn't the creature handlers that got this changed. Our complaints about the need to use camps have been ignored since beta. It was the introduction of vehicles and the problems that non-scouts had with them that caused a general cry that the devs actually listened to.
Never mind that most CHs need to have some scout.
Exactly. We already had the skills to make a camp. To us camps were nothing more than an annoyance because of other severe bugs in our system. While we want the bugs fixed, what is more likely to happen -- fixing our bugs or removing the need to call from a camp?
Never mind you can freaking walk if you "accidentally" store a vehicle, or it stores on its own.
Try taking a five kilometer walk on Dathomir when your bike or mount stores on you and you have zero terrain negotiation. You would be upset, too.
The most us Scouts and Rangers had to deal with was putting up a new tent and calling it again. We had a way around this bug when the non-scouts did not.
Never mind that you can call a pet or droid and leave them out. God forbid they should get hurt and you would have to actually heal them.
We would love if this was possible. On many of the heavily populated planets pets auto-store every few minutes. Auto-storing has been one of our top bugs since the beginning.
I think we will make out on this deal, To be determined.
Eventually, although I realize it will be months before camps are properly addressed.
Seriously, how many times were you contacted to come out into the middle of the wilderness to throw up a camp for someone? If your answer is less than one, what exactly are you losing with this change? If your answer is more than none, I want a screenshot.
From a CH's perspective we could already throw up a camp, and all we needed was the basic one. That does nothing to justify the other three Scout camps, nor the the three Ranger camps. Using calling to justify camps means we have six camps that are ignored because it gives the impression the restrictions make all camps worthwhile.
From a non-Scout perspective they get an annoyance removed and it gives them one less reason to be a Scout when they shouldn't be one to begin with. I am glad they will no longer be one myself. If I have to give up an annoying feature to make my chosen profession more unique you can bet I will be happy about it. (Now if we can remove Scout as a pre-req for Bounty Hunter...)
From the devs perspective, the only reason calling from camps existed was to prevent griefing. (Ignore the fact that timers were later added to prevent this because camps solved nothing and that most combat occurs in cities were camps are not needed.) I'm not sure if anyone here has fought against an 'equal' level handler, but the only griefing was the pet's vitality loss if its owner could not store it before combat started.
Scout are losing nothing over this change. Camps are completely worthless and if you can't admit that and instead try to defend this silly calling mechanic they are never going to improve. Now that it is gone, we can focus on making camps useful and the devs have nothing to justify that they are.
Would you rather a useful camping implementation or a system that does nothing for Scouts and is only an annoyance for a majority of the game's population?
[Edited for grammar and emphasis]
Message Edited by Seiryuu on 03-15-2004 03:12 PM
I do think that it is silly to have a camp out to bring out bikes but camping is part of the fun of the game. Maybe I am trying to force my beliefs on the game but it just takes away from the game now that people are not forced to sitdown and enjoy the camps.
Camps can be enjoyable to have out. I just wish the devs could take away the drive for the grind and bring in some other items that would intice people to do other things then master every profession in one week.
Forcing people to do something does not make them enjoy it. Usually it makes them resent it.
It is a far better design philosophy to make people want to do something.
jjmartin wrote:
I do think that it is silly to have a camp out to bring out bikes but camping is part of the fun of the game. Maybe I am trying to force my beliefs on the game but it just takes away from the game now that people are not forced to sitdown and enjoy the camps.
Camps can be enjoyable to have out. I just wish the devs could take away the drive for the grind and bring in some other items that would intice people to do other things then master every profession in one week.
Unforutnately, a lot of people aren't playing this game to just enjoy themselves. Theyv'e got powerleveling and Jedi slots to grab!
My greatest objection to the camp to call requirement is that it was an annoyance for me as a CH. The reasons given for it were lameass, easily refuted ones about "exploits" that TH and the devs could never adequately explain, except to ignore their own changes in the game that eliminated the exploits they were so worried about totally independently of the camping requirement.
Once non-scouts started needing to call vehicles in the wilds, it became a broader issue, as outlined above. CHs had been bitching about pets autostoring and failing to follow for months, and the devs ignored it. For a two month period there was a bug that allowed you to call virtually anywhere if you had a declared residence, and the sky failed to fall as TH and the devs said it would if anyone could call anywhere.
Camps were originally supposed to be "bases of operation" in the wild, but the instant you go into combat your camp ceases to function as a base of operations, so that idea got axed. Higher level camps were supposed to repell aggro, but I've seen crazed durnis launch attacks into the highest level Ranger base camps. Healing is also a good feature, but if you've got a medical droid, well, that kinda scotches that, particularly when you've got a 110 med level droid and the camp's lousy 45 level takes precedence in determining the heal rate, so you drop the camp to get the higher rate. Then there's the crafting stations that come with the higher level camps; again, a good droid with the right crafting station makes this redundant, and the droid probably is a higher level crafting station, to boot. WIth experimentation being absolutely crucial to med crafting, using the highest level crafting station for emergency med crafting is a must.
The key is making camps really worth the effort. I still use them just to sit and craft out in the wilderness once and a while, to slowly autoheal myself and some friends. They make great rally points when you've just finished up a fight, and to catch your breath after a serious scrum with some mantigrues or vesps.
Seiryuu wrote:
Maybe I am trying to force my beliefs on the game but it just takes away from the game now that people are not forced to sitdown and enjoy the camps.
Forcing people to do something does not make them enjoy it. Usually it makes them resent it.
It is a far better design philosophy to make people want to do something.
I agree but as a player and really no voice to speak of (i mean i feel as if we really do not have a voice to speak of) all I can do is do all of these IMHO or IMO. I just make some of these post to know that I am not the only one who thinks this.
SioBabble wrote:
jjmartin wrote:
I do think that it is silly to have a camp out to bring out bikes but camping is part of the fun of the game. Maybe I am trying to force my beliefs on the game but it just takes away from the game now that people are not forced to sitdown and enjoy the camps.
Camps can be enjoyable to have out. I just wish the devs could take away the drive for the grind and bring in some other items that would intice people to do other things then master every profession in one week.
Unforutnately, a lot of people aren't playing this game to just enjoy themselves. Theyv'e got powerleveling and Jedi slots to grab!
My greatest objection to the camp to call requirement is that it was an annoyance for me as a CH. The reasons given for it were lameass, easily refuted ones about "exploits" that TH and the devs could never adequately explain, except to ignore their own changes in the game that eliminated the exploits they were so worried about totally independently of the camping requirement.
Once non-scouts started needing to call vehicles in the wilds, it became a broader issue, as outlined above. CHs had been bitching about pets autostoring and failing to follow for months, and the devs ignored it. For a two month period there was a bug that allowed you to call virtually anywhere if you had a declared residence, and the sky failed to fall as TH and the devs said it would if anyone could call anywhere.
Camps were originally supposed to be "bases of operation" in the wild, but the instant you go into combat your camp ceases to function as a base of operations, so that idea got axed. Higher level camps were supposed to repell aggro, but I've seen crazed durnis launch attacks into the highest level Ranger base camps. Healing is also a good feature, but if you've got a medical droid, well, that kinda scotches that, particularly when you've got a 110 med level droid and the camp's lousy 45 level takes precedence in determining the heal rate, so you drop the camp to get the higher rate. Then there's the crafting stations that come with the higher level camps; again, a good droid with the right crafting station makes this redundant, and the droid probably is a higher level crafting station, to boot. WIth experimentation being absolutely crucial to med crafting, using the highest level crafting station for emergency med crafting is a must.
The key is making camps really worth the effort. I still use them just to sit and craft out in the wilderness once and a while, to slowly autoheal myself and some friends. They make great rally points when you've just finished up a fight, and to catch your breath after a serious scrum with some mantigrues or vesps.
Gang,
I was against it too. But it's a popular choice, unfortunately.
We do get the bonus of not having a timer if we call without a camp, which is nice.
And I'm using this nerf as a anvil to hammer the Devs for camp changes.
B
I think it's a good change, particularly considering the persistant autostore problem. Also, as was touched on above, it will eliminate the "dabblers" who only took Scout for the camping abilities. Now they can reclaim those points and use them to go blasting away at everything that moves. Meanwhile, existing Scouts will be in greater demand as the harvesters of the organic components necessary to make the medicines and buffs that keep the Galaxies humming.
Great day for Scouts and Creature Handlers. 