Scout Archive
Thread: Minor fix to forage...
DeltaXi65 wrote:
Mat,
I'm working on it. It's not as easy a fix as it seems. I've been bugging TH to do something about forage, but right now there just isn't a lot of Dev time for anything but the core changes coming up.
B
DeltaXi65 wrote:
Mat,
It also seems pretty easy for them to fix the Imperial Hat bug. But it's not. All is not what it seems.
But in any event, I'll bug them about it some more - I've already bugged the hell out of GreenMarine (the old Scout Dev) about it before. When he gets off of space, I think he'll have more time for little things like this.
B
- Doubleall stats on foraged foods. (It costs me ~100 action to forage, and I think there's only one item that even replaces that much HAM when I eat it. And it doesn'treplace action.
- Make all foraged foods 25% filling, so we can eat more than one at a time. I wouldn't mind spending 10 minutes foraging for food if I know that I can pop several when I need them.
- Make all foraged food effects last for 8 minutes.
The simple fact is that an intern at Sony could find these items and change these stats in a very short amount of time. I'm not asking for a mechanism change or anything that requires any design at all--it's just increasing numbers on a very limited set of objects. Hell, the players could do most of the work--In a day, the scout/ranger forum could generate a list of the forageable foods and the new stats they should have. (I know we have already generated this list for the existing items.)
--Even significantly improving ONE foraged food--just ONE--would make foraging worth it.
This isn't a change that is going to destroy chefs or unbalance the game (foraged foods don't affect secondaries). This is simply something that can easily bedone NOW, to patch a skill that has been useless since launch.As always, the Scout and Ranger forums will be there to provide the hard data on how thesechanges affect gameplay and any balance issues that arise. (The Chefs will also provide data if these changesare too unbalancing. ) We are more than happy to do the testing and research work for SWG if it means fixing something that improves us.
I guess my theme here is: Improve it now, then balance it later. Later, when the devs have time, they can make it so a player's forage skill determines the increase in stats and duration, and the decrease in filling. (A change like that would actually affect other subsystems, so it would warrant some implementation and testing time.) They can later make these increased buffs only apply to scouts/rangers. They could tie the bonuses to camps (examples: bonuses only occur when scouts eat foraged foods in camps, orcamp's healing factor determines how much of an increase is applied.) If the Ranger revamp ever occurs, they can address issues like this at that time. But for now, a quick, easy fix is the solution.
The point is--they can easily hotfix a patch that decreases these values if they affect the game too much.
I can understand that much of this game is too complex to make fast, untested changes. However, the changes I suggested above are easy to make, not unbalancing, and easy to revert/tweakif necessary. More importantly, it is a quick boost to professions that have not received anything in nine months. Chefs got a revamp--Rangers (Scouts)didn't. So a little encroaching on Chef/Medic territory can be tolerated until the Devs get around to finishing the Ranger class.
DeltaXi65 wrote:
Mat,
It also seems pretty easy for them to fix the Imperial Hat bug. But it's not. All is not what it seems.
But in any event, I'll bug them about it some more - I've already bugged the hell out of GreenMarine (the old Scout Dev) about it before. When he gets off of space, I think he'll have more time for little things like this.
B
Ah, ah, ah not so fast! You leave GM alone after JTL. He needs to start concenrating all of his efforts on that wonderful smuggler revamp design he has drawn up on the smuggler forum. His design is so wonderful infact it fixes two professions with one revamp: smuggler and bounty hunter. Everyone really has a stake in this so you should all read about it here:
There are multiple items that give greater than 100 in action and in other HAM pools. I'd have to say, then, that +100 to a HAM pool is not very useful, and +25 may as well be zero.
- Increase the stats so that the minimum buff amount is 100. In general, double every stat except the onion.
- Make foraged foods 50% filling. Foraged foods are currently a hinderance because they fill you enough that you can't pop anything useful (chef food).
- The minimum duration for any foraged food should be 4-5 minutes. Any less than that makes a low-HAM type of buff useless. (If I'm fighting a creature difficult enough to require a buff, I won't have it dead in the 60 seconds that an Onion gives me. I'm sure some professions can burn 500 mind in a minute, but I can't without burning the rest of my HAM too.)
Several people have posted the foraged items table: (Good work to those who assembled it)
HAM Duration
Etost'Ew Zann 5050 50 700
Sosi Hodor12050400
Jar of Foraged Fungus 50100 250
Jar of Foraged Bugs100 300
Flurr-Cle Onion500 60
Jar of Foraged Berries100300
Ko-Do Fruit5050 250
Sijjo Sewi100 200
Schule Nef 50 400
Maroj Melon5050150
Alever Tweth'Pek10025 100
Wild Snaff 50 100 50 50
Jar of Foraged Grubs10 60 10
HAM Duration
Etost'Ew Zann 100100100 700
Sosi Hodor200100400
Jar of Foraged Fungus100200 300
Jar of Foraged Bugs200 300
Flurr-Cle Onion500300
Jar of Foraged Berries100300
Ko-Do Fruit100100 400
Sijjo Sewi200 300
Schule Nef100 400
Maroj Melon100100300
Alever Tweth'Pek200100300
Wild Snaff100 200100300
Jar of Foraged Grubs10 60 10
(There's still a chance that you'llpick up useless Grubs, heh.)
There's nothing in the above table that is extremely unbalancing, but I do think that it pushes the /forage ability into the realm of usefulness. For those who complain for Chefs or Doctors, I say: we've had a skill since launch that has been useless but easily fixable. Harvesting and tracking are the only skills that we DO have that are working and of value. Doctors and Chefs are working classes--Ranger is incomplete and is not slated to be fixed in the next several months (if that).On top of that, the camping and conceal nerfs have made us even worse off. The above proposal is a simple andquick way to throw a bone to two professions that have been thoroughly neglected.
I'd have to take issue with anyone who believes that the suggested changes would require anything more than finding and updating the above numbers in a table. They'd be able to put this into the next hotfix or mini-publish and have it operational in a month. Such a change would take very little effort from asingle Developer, hardly distracting them from working onJedi, JTL, Smuggler, Bounty Hunter, and a whole list of changes that seem to take priority over our profession.
There are multiple items that give greater than 100 in action and in other HAM pools. I'd have to say, then, that +100 to a HAM pool is not very useful, and +25 may as well be zero.
- Increase the stats so that the minimum buff amount is 100. In general, double every stat except the onion.
- Make foraged foods 50% filling. Foraged foods are currently a hinderance because they fill you enough that you can't pop anything useful (chef food).
- The minimum duration for any foraged food should be 4-5 minutes. Any less than that makes a low-HAM type of buff useless. (If I'm fighting a creature difficult enough to require a buff, I won't have it dead in the 60 seconds that an Onion gives me. I'm sure some professions can burn 500 mind in a minute, but I can't without burning the rest of my HAM too.)
Several people have posted the foraged items table: (Good work to those who assembled it)
HAM Duration
Etost'Ew Zann 5050 50 700
Sosi Hodor12050400
Jar of Foraged Fungus 50100 250
Jar of Foraged Bugs100 300
Flurr-Cle Onion500 60
Jar of Foraged Berries100300
Ko-Do Fruit5050 250
Sijjo Sewi100 200
Schule Nef 50 400
Maroj Melon5050150
Alever Tweth'Pek10025 100
Wild Snaff 50 100 50 50
Jar of Foraged Grubs10 60 10
HAM Duration
Etost'Ew Zann 100100100 700
Sosi Hodor200100400
Jar of Foraged Fungus100200 300
Jar of Foraged Bugs200 300
Flurr-Cle Onion500300
Jar of Foraged Berries100300
Ko-Do Fruit100100 400
Sijjo Sewi200 300
Schule Nef100 400
Maroj Melon100100300
Alever Tweth'Pek200100300
Wild Snaff100 200100300
Jar of Foraged Grubs10 60 10
(There's still a chance that you'llpick up useless Grubs, heh.)
There's nothing in the above table that is extremely unbalancing, but I do think that it pushes the /forage ability into the realm of usefulness. For those who complain for Chefs or Doctors, I say: we've had a skill since launch that has been useless but easily fixable. Harvesting and tracking are the only skills that we DO have that are working and of value. Doctors and Chefs are working classes--Ranger is incomplete and is not slated to be fixed in the next several months (if that).On top of that, the camping and conceal nerfs have made us even worse off. The above proposal is a simple andquick way to throw a bone to two professions that have been thoroughly neglected.
I'd have to take issue with anyone who believes that the suggested changes would require anything more than finding and updating the above numbers in a table. They'd be able to put this into the next hotfix or mini-publish and have it operational in a month. Such a change would take very little effort from asingle Developer, hardly distracting them from working onJedi, JTL, Smuggler, Bounty Hunter, and a whole list of changes that seem to take priority over our profession.
Message Edited by Hakai on 06-18-2004 03:16 AM