Scout Archive

Thread: Minor fix to forage...

Matsubaa
Sun Jun 13, 2004 11:35 am
#1

Can we push the devs to fix the foraged foods to at least work on the same system as chef foods? They don't show up in the buff window and their stats aren't in the filling, duration and stats format.


There could be so much more done to forage to make it better, but this is a relatively simply fix that would go a long way towards making forage less of a joke.



Give me a shadowed forest into which I might disappear.
Give me a terrible foe and stack the odds against me.
Give me friends and creatures with whom I can share my adventures, my losses and my gains.
Let the gales blow and the world be torn asunder but don't make me stand alone against the tempest.
DeltaXi65
Sun Jun 13, 2004 4:54 pm
#2

Mat,


I'm working on it. It's not as easy a fix as it seems. I've been bugging TH to do something about forage, but right now there just isn't a lot of Dev time for anything but the core changes coming up.


B



BRISC RUBAL
SCOUT CORRESPONDENT EMERITUS
Jedi w Politician w Epic Roleplay Carebear
Tarkin Memorial Brigade Founder w Fight Club Propagandist
AXIS Meatshield w RIVAL Glow Stick Waver

Matsubaa
Mon Jun 14, 2004 11:37 am
#3






DeltaXi65 wrote:

Mat,


I'm working on it. It's not as easy a fix as it seems. I've been bugging TH to do something about forage, but right now there just isn't a lot of Dev time for anything but the core changes coming up.


B






It seems like such a simple thing. Replace our crappy old foraged items with crappy new foraged items. Same artwork, different stats.



Give me a shadowed forest into which I might disappear.
Give me a terrible foe and stack the odds against me.
Give me friends and creatures with whom I can share my adventures, my losses and my gains.
Let the gales blow and the world be torn asunder but don't make me stand alone against the tempest.
DeltaXi65
Tue Jun 15, 2004 12:09 am
#4


Mat,


It also seems pretty easy for them to fix the Imperial Hat bug. But it's not. All is not what it seems.


But in any event, I'll bug them about it some more - I've already bugged the hell out of GreenMarine (the old Scout Dev) about it before. When he gets off of space, I think he'll have more time for little things like this.


B



BRISC RUBAL
SCOUT CORRESPONDENT EMERITUS
Jedi w Politician w Epic Roleplay Carebear
Tarkin Memorial Brigade Founder w Fight Club Propagandist
AXIS Meatshield w RIVAL Glow Stick Waver

Matsubaa
Wed Jun 16, 2004 1:02 pm
#5






DeltaXi65 wrote:


Mat,


It also seems pretty easy for them to fix the Imperial Hat bug. But it's not. All is not what it seems.


But in any event, I'll bug them about it some more - I've already bugged the hell out of GreenMarine (the old Scout Dev) about it before. When he gets off of space, I think he'll have more time for little things like this.


B






It's a simple drop/treasure table change. If the new items can be created, they can be plugged into the table in place of the existing items. In theory at least, we could forage guns and droid deeds if they were put in the right drop table. It should be the same difficulty as adding a new loot drop which is the *least* of what happens at nearly every publish.


I guess I don't know for certain that the change is as simple as that, but if it isn't then I really think there is a redesign needed instead of just a fix. Until one fix or another happens it's still just another useless command taking up space in the system.



Give me a shadowed forest into which I might disappear.
Give me a terrible foe and stack the odds against me.
Give me friends and creatures with whom I can share my adventures, my losses and my gains.
Let the gales blow and the world be torn asunder but don't make me stand alone against the tempest.
VicTemuvluv
Thu Jun 17, 2004 3:44 am
#6

Delta,


Thanks for harassing TH and the Devs for fixes to /forage. Maybe you've already tried suggesting this, but since foraged foods are useless, they should simply up their stats WITHOUT spending any bug-checking/balancing time on it.



  • Doubleall stats on foraged foods. (It costs me ~100 action to forage, and I think there's only one item that even replaces that much HAM when I eat it. And it doesn'treplace action.

  • Make all foraged foods 25% filling, so we can eat more than one at a time. I wouldn't mind spending 10 minutes foraging for food if I know that I can pop several when I need them.

  • Make all foraged food effects last for 8 minutes.

The simple fact is that an intern at Sony could find these items and change these stats in a very short amount of time. I'm not asking for a mechanism change or anything that requires any design at all--it's just increasing numbers on a very limited set of objects. Hell, the players could do most of the work--In a day, the scout/ranger forum could generate a list of the forageable foods and the new stats they should have. (I know we have already generated this list for the existing items.)


--Even significantly improving ONE foraged food--just ONE--would make foraging worth it.


This isn't a change that is going to destroy chefs or unbalance the game (foraged foods don't affect secondaries). This is simply something that can easily bedone NOW, to patch a skill that has been useless since launch.As always, the Scout and Ranger forums will be there to provide the hard data on how thesechanges affect gameplay and any balance issues that arise. (The Chefs will also provide data if these changesare too unbalancing. ) We are more than happy to do the testing and research work for SWG if it means fixing something that improves us.


I guess my theme here is: Improve it now, then balance it later. Later, when the devs have time, they can make it so a player's forage skill determines the increase in stats and duration, and the decrease in filling. (A change like that would actually affect other subsystems, so it would warrant some implementation and testing time.) They can later make these increased buffs only apply to scouts/rangers. They could tie the bonuses to camps (examples: bonuses only occur when scouts eat foraged foods in camps, orcamp's healing factor determines how much of an increase is applied.) If the Ranger revamp ever occurs, they can address issues like this at that time. But for now, a quick, easy fix is the solution.


The point is--they can easily hotfix a patch that decreases these values if they affect the game too much.


I can understand that much of this game is too complex to make fast, untested changes. However, the changes I suggested above are easy to make, not unbalancing, and easy to revert/tweakif necessary. More importantly, it is a quick boost to professions that have not received anything in nine months. Chefs got a revamp--Rangers (Scouts)didn't. So a little encroaching on Chef/Medic territory can be tolerated until the Devs get around to finishing the Ranger class.




Vic Temuvlov,

Zabrak Master TKA, Track-only Ranger
Naboo, Eclipse
RozhlokLightningskull
Thu Jun 17, 2004 6:09 am
#7




DeltaXi65 wrote:


Mat,


It also seems pretty easy for them to fix the Imperial Hat bug. But it's not. All is not what it seems.


But in any event, I'll bug them about it some more - I've already bugged the hell out of GreenMarine (the old Scout Dev) about it before. When he gets off of space, I think he'll have more time for little things like this.


B







Ah, ah, ah not so fast! You leave GM alone after JTL. He needs to start concenrating all of his efforts on that wonderful smuggler revamp design he has drawn up on the smuggler forum. His design is so wonderful infact it fixes two professions with one revamp: smuggler and bounty hunter. Everyone really has a stake in this so you should all read about it here:


LINK





/+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++\
| Razhlok Lightningskull: Master Bounty Hunter ~ Master Rifleman ~ Alliance Pilot -- Wanderhome Galaxy |
| Lynsana Jantal: Teräs Käsi Master ~ Master Swordswoman ~ Privateer -- Bria Galaxy |
\+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++/

VicTemuvluv
Thu Jun 17, 2004 2:18 pm
#8

Ok, let me amend some points in my last post:
There are multiple items that give greater than 100 in action and in other HAM pools. I'd have to say, then, that +100 to a HAM pool is not very useful, and +25 may as well be zero.



  • Increase the stats so that the minimum buff amount is 100. In general, double every stat except the onion.

  • Make foraged foods 50% filling. Foraged foods are currently a hinderance because they fill you enough that you can't pop anything useful (chef food).

  • The minimum duration for any foraged food should be 4-5 minutes. Any less than that makes a low-HAM type of buff useless. (If I'm fighting a creature difficult enough to require a buff, I won't have it dead in the 60 seconds that an Onion gives me. I'm sure some professions can burn 500 mind in a minute, but I can't without burning the rest of my HAM too.)


Several people have posted the foraged items table: (Good work to those who assembled it)


HAM Duration


Etost'Ew Zann 5050 50 700
Sosi Hodor12050400
Jar of Foraged Fungus 50100 250
Jar of Foraged Bugs100 300
Flurr-Cle Onion500 60
Jar of Foraged Berries100300
Ko-Do Fruit5050 250
Sijjo Sewi100 200
Schule Nef 50 400
Maroj Melon5050150
Alever Tweth'Pek10025 100
Wild Snaff 50 100 50 50
Jar of Foraged Grubs10 60 10


Suggested Changes:


HAM Duration


Etost'Ew Zann 100100100 700
Sosi Hodor200100400
Jar of Foraged Fungus100200 300
Jar of Foraged Bugs200 300
Flurr-Cle Onion500300
Jar of Foraged Berries100300
Ko-Do Fruit100100 400
Sijjo Sewi200 300
Schule Nef100 400
Maroj Melon100100300
Alever Tweth'Pek200100300
Wild Snaff100 200100300
Jar of Foraged Grubs10 60 10


(There's still a chance that you'llpick up useless Grubs, heh.)


There's nothing in the above table that is extremely unbalancing, but I do think that it pushes the /forage ability into the realm of usefulness. For those who complain for Chefs or Doctors, I say: we've had a skill since launch that has been useless but easily fixable. Harvesting and tracking are the only skills that we DO have that are working and of value. Doctors and Chefs are working classes--Ranger is incomplete and is not slated to be fixed in the next several months (if that).On top of that, the camping and conceal nerfs have made us even worse off. The above proposal is a simple andquick way to throw a bone to two professions that have been thoroughly neglected.


I'd have to take issue with anyone who believes that the suggested changes would require anything more than finding and updating the above numbers in a table. They'd be able to put this into the next hotfix or mini-publish and have it operational in a month. Such a change would take very little effort from asingle Developer, hardly distracting them from working onJedi, JTL, Smuggler, Bounty Hunter, and a whole list of changes that seem to take priority over our profession.





Vic Temuvlov,

Zabrak Master TKA, Track-only Ranger
Naboo, Eclipse
VicTemuvluv
Thu Jun 17, 2004 2:19 pm
#9


Ok, let me amend some points in my last post:
There are multiple items that give greater than 100 in action and in other HAM pools. I'd have to say, then, that +100 to a HAM pool is not very useful, and +25 may as well be zero.



  • Increase the stats so that the minimum buff amount is 100. In general, double every stat except the onion.

  • Make foraged foods 50% filling. Foraged foods are currently a hinderance because they fill you enough that you can't pop anything useful (chef food).

  • The minimum duration for any foraged food should be 4-5 minutes. Any less than that makes a low-HAM type of buff useless. (If I'm fighting a creature difficult enough to require a buff, I won't have it dead in the 60 seconds that an Onion gives me. I'm sure some professions can burn 500 mind in a minute, but I can't without burning the rest of my HAM too.)


Several people have posted the foraged items table: (Good work to those who assembled it)


HAM Duration


Etost'Ew Zann 5050 50 700
Sosi Hodor12050400
Jar of Foraged Fungus 50100 250
Jar of Foraged Bugs100 300
Flurr-Cle Onion500 60
Jar of Foraged Berries100300
Ko-Do Fruit5050 250
Sijjo Sewi100 200
Schule Nef 50 400
Maroj Melon5050150
Alever Tweth'Pek10025 100
Wild Snaff 50 100 50 50
Jar of Foraged Grubs10 60 10


Suggested Changes:


HAM Duration


Etost'Ew Zann 100100100 700
Sosi Hodor200100400
Jar of Foraged Fungus100200 300
Jar of Foraged Bugs200 300
Flurr-Cle Onion500300
Jar of Foraged Berries100300
Ko-Do Fruit100100 400
Sijjo Sewi200 300
Schule Nef100 400
Maroj Melon100100300
Alever Tweth'Pek200100300
Wild Snaff100 200100300
Jar of Foraged Grubs10 60 10


(There's still a chance that you'llpick up useless Grubs, heh.)


There's nothing in the above table that is extremely unbalancing, but I do think that it pushes the /forage ability into the realm of usefulness. For those who complain for Chefs or Doctors, I say: we've had a skill since launch that has been useless but easily fixable. Harvesting and tracking are the only skills that we DO have that are working and of value. Doctors and Chefs are working classes--Ranger is incomplete and is not slated to be fixed in the next several months (if that).On top of that, the camping and conceal nerfs have made us even worse off. The above proposal is a simple andquick way to throw a bone to two professions that have been thoroughly neglected.


I'd have to take issue with anyone who believes that the suggested changes would require anything more than finding and updating the above numbers in a table. They'd be able to put this into the next hotfix or mini-publish and have it operational in a month. Such a change would take very little effort from asingle Developer, hardly distracting them from working onJedi, JTL, Smuggler, Bounty Hunter, and a whole list of changes that seem to take priority over our profession.





Vic Temuvlov,

Zabrak Master TKA, Track-only Ranger
Naboo, Eclipse
VicTemuvluv
Thu Jun 17, 2004 2:20 pm
#10

sorry for the multiple posts, and /self-bump...



Vic Temuvlov,

Zabrak Master TKA, Track-only Ranger
Naboo, Eclipse
DeltaXi65
Thu Jun 17, 2004 3:15 pm
#11

Vic,


As soon as I can get some attention to forage, I will pass this information along to them.


Great work.


B



BRISC RUBAL
SCOUT CORRESPONDENT EMERITUS
Jedi w Politician w Epic Roleplay Carebear
Tarkin Memorial Brigade Founder w Fight Club Propagandist
AXIS Meatshield w RIVAL Glow Stick Waver

Hakai
Thu Jun 17, 2004 7:12 pm
#12


HA! i just had the funniest revelation...... it involves camps AND foraged foods


If the idea to make camps more useful comes onto the plate, why not make it where you can actually use that campfire that we've all sat in (unintentionally most the time)?


make a "hunter's cook kit" craftable, take up to three foraged items and throw them in the pot. Anyone in the camp that eats from the pot will get an effect/state defense depending on the type of items that were thrown in the pot......



here is the kicker, throw a chef in the mix and they can do even better things to help the scout out! If a chef is in the camp at the time that the scout is making these items, there is an immediate bonus to the"crafting" assembly. lol


As another thing, whynot make it so that we can forage herbs and spices that chefs can usefor bonuses to their food? (or maybe make it so that we have to process it somehow).



ironically this would also help the Chefs and scouts fit more into the GCW.....the camps are needed as rally points and food preparation stations for the chefs.....they both are necessary for a good strike team (kind of like a war camp...everyone eating some stew before the big push in the morning).


i mean there wre other ideas for camp effects (defense vs stun, dizzy, and others, increased accuracy or dodge.) since it attends to more than just one area, maybe it could be doable?


(doubtful, but im sure even the chefs have been asking how to make themselves feel more in the war effort just as scouts have, why not make them mess officers?)


anyone else wanna add? i would seriously like to pound out a solid idea from this...i can feel something growin .....


Message Edited by Hakai on 06-18-2004 03:16 AM



Hakai Youkai
==================================
Hakai's Hardware
(-211, -5812) (6197, 4326)
Hunting outfitter since 9/22/03
Anchorhead, and Mos Tyrenia, Tatooine
==================================
krupps58
Fri Jun 18, 2004 3:45 am
#13

Wow these are some really good ideas. Devs take note. If just one or two of these got implemented it would make Scount a lot more enjoyable.



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