Scout Archive
Thread: Basic camps for everyone -opinions?-
Actually...maybe they could implement something like the penalty that exists for weapons for non-"class" items. So sure, you could try to set up a camp (Basic only),but there's a high (60%+) chance that you will fail and lose the camp. Same thing with stimpacks (A's only) - opens a market, but keeps the benefits of being a scout.
There would be two benefits to this: (1) Scouts would now have a market for basic camps, and (2) other classes can "try" to set up a camp for themselves.
Just a thought that came to me...somewhere in the middle of the current takes, and treats it kind of like they did creatures and weapons.
If they want camps Then Pay a ranger or scout to put one on up, hell i'll even do it for free.
Its Just plain Stupid that everyone can now get something that Cost 15 SKILL POINTS. (aka Novice Scout)
15 Skill Points Is why I'm Complaining about it, I don't get Novice artisian for Free, OR Brawler ? No
I don't so why should I want to give little miss dancer a Camp so she can Call out her Bunny, OH HELL NO.
/rantdone
Its bad enough everyone can run around with cl 15 pets That oh ya thats right Novice CH Cost me 6 skill points + What I already had in scout to get it. MOre freebies for everyone. NO DEAL WITH IT
Camps are NOT the only thing that distinguishes Scouts from the rest of the world...giving other classes the ability to set up a camp (with a hefty penalty - high failure rate = loss of camp) isn't really that unreasonable a request."
Since when can I craft anything a Novice Artisan Can? I can't survey, I can't sample.
I can Craft Camps, Camo Kits and Traps, Thats it Thats all a master ranger/master scout has in his schemtics
The weapon certs you mentioned for survial knife, wood staft etc, those are the brawler equiv's of cdef's, it was an over sight by the devs. Everyone can use CDEF's, everyone can use survial knifes and wood staffs
bottom line is It is yet another thing people want for free. Camp's are one of the best abilities of scouts.
Glaza-X wrote:
Since when can I craft anything a Novice Artisan Can? I can't survey, I can't sample.
No, you can't. But you can craft. To take your position on camps to the extreme, from an Artisan point of view, why should Scouts be allowed to craft? They should just take their hides and bones to an Artisan, just like anyone else, and have their camps created for them. Like it or not, we do get a free ability that really should belong solely to another class.
Survey and sample are completely inapposite to this discussion. I was likening the basic ability to use a crafting tool with the basic ability to use a camp. Besides, there are scouts out there who think they should be able to do both as well. I think they're wrong.
And since when was getting something for free necessarily evil? Scouts would benefit by this by actually having a market for our camps apart from other Scouts (who have no reason to buy them since they can craft them themselves!) As for camps being the "best" ability of a scout, we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I think harvesting is the best ability, followed closely by terrain negotiation and maskscent. Heck, for me traps are better than camps.
bottom line is It is yet another thing people want for free. Camp's are one of the best abilities of scouts.
HolyElvis wrote:
Survey and sample are completely inapposite to this discussion. I was likening the basic ability to use a crafting tool with the basic ability to use a camp. Besides, there are scouts out there who think they should be able to do both as well. I think they're wrong.
Oops...edited this and didn't clarify the second-to-last sentence. This was in reference to surveying and sampling - some Scouts have said they want to be able to do these as well...for free.
Yes because when I was a lowly Noob on the starbase I chose to be scout and I recieved a cdef pistol and a general crafting kit. It is part of my profession To craft what I need.
If i had Chosen Novice Marksman I wouldn't have recieved a general Crafting kit.
"And since when was getting something for free necessarily evil? "
It's evil because in my mind its another thing for free.
Thats my view on it, to you your fine with it , I'm not even the thought of it Pisses me off. I chose this route, Just like I did Rifle and Ranger and CH. My choices. If someone wants to camp then Learn Novice Scout.
If they don't have the skill points Tough.
" As for camps being the "best" ability of a scout, we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. "
Since when is this "we'll"?
I take it you have never been wounded and need some tending. I for one Hate going into town, I would rather camp 10-20min and craft traps then walk to town. Or try this stuck on Dathmoir 6km from an outpost. The time it takes to walk I can Heal myself using the camp alone.
" I think harvesting is the best ability, followed closely by terrain negotiation and maskscent. Heck, for me traps are better than camps."
Frankly its nice and all that you wanna share your knowledge or your views with me but its off topic. Everyone is intitled to there own views, You can express yours, I can express mine.
Bottom Line for the 3rd time It is yet agian a case of Something for Free with Zero Skill points invested.
I think this is stupid as well, See Now if everyone got everything for free, Why bother to spend skill points.
If camps where free and Surveying and sampling where free oh ya and Ch pets are already free,
WHY bother to learn scout, ch and artisan? That goes against the whole concept of Limited skill points.
How on earth people come up with this stuff is beyond me. If i want Polymer I ask an artisan, if i want metal I ask A de/weaponsmith. Simple. By design we are nudged to working with other classes and players. Social/player interaction is one of the goals of the devs. Not just hunting etc. But everyone has a purpose and reason in this game.
Glaza-X wrote:
"No, you can't. But you can craft. To take your position on camps to the extreme, from an Artisan point of view, why should Scouts be allowed to craft? "
Yes because when I was a lowly Noob on the starbase I chose to be scout and I recieved a cdef pistol and a general crafting kit. It is part of my profession To craft what I need.
But WHY should you be allowed to craft as a Scout? It doesn't make any more sense than allowing other classes to use camps...in fact, it makes LESS sense. You seem to be in favor of creating more "pure" class distinctions (ie: nobody but scouts can camp; nobody but CHs can have animal pets; nobody but artisans can survey/sample), but back down and resort to a "that's how it was designed" argument when it might cut against you. If you want more "pure" classes, then Scouts should lose the ability to craft. That's an artisan's job.
" As for camps being the "best" ability of a scout, we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. "
I take it you have never been wounded and need some tending. I for one Hate going into town, I would rather camp 10-20min and craft traps then walk to town. Or try this stuck on Dathmoir 6km from an outpost. The time it takes to walk I can Heal myself using the camp alone.
That's fine. I'm not saying that camps are not USEFUL, just that I don't think that they're the BEST ability that Scouts have. With maskscent working correctly, I don't have to worry about going anywhere on a hostile planet, because I can (generally) avoid confrontations. If you hate going into town, that's just fine...that's a playstyle difference, but in no way convinces me that because of that fact, camps are THE best ability that Scouts have.
" I think harvesting is the best ability, followed closely by terrain negotiation and maskscent. Heck, for me traps are better than camps."
Frankly its nice and all that you wanna share your knowledge or your views with me but its off topic. Everyone is intitled to there own views, You can express yours, I can express mine.
No...you made it on-topic by saying that camping is the "best" ability of scouts, and because of that we shouldn't give it up. And I'm not saying that you can't express your opinion (apparently you've never heard the phrase "agree to disagree", since that's precisely what it means.
Bottom Line for the 3rd time It is yet agian a case of Something for Free with Zero Skill points invested.
And my point (which you somehow seem to completely miss, or at least not address in your responses) is that it doesn't need to be "something for free". You can attach penalties to the use of camps by non-scouts. You can make it so only Scouts can craft the camps, thus GENERATING a market that does not currently exist. You haven't rebutted any of these points, only repeated your opinions over and over. Believe it or not, there are benefits to the Scout profession that can be had by INTELLIGENTLY implementing use of camps by other classes.
My bottom line: Should camps AS THEY ARE CURRENTLY IMPLEMENTED be opened to other classes? NO. Could they be implemented in such a way as to generate a new market for Scouts, but also provide incentives for people to invest skill points in the skills? Yes.
I respect your valid effort to express your views on your vision of things. I don't agree with you. But hell i don't agree with myself on things.
This post is not directed at you as the target I did qoute a sentence from you, but I'm using some other experiances to draw from for my thoughts.
Sorry I'm Gonna attempt to change the direction this post is going before it gets locked for flaming.
I'm not in this forum to argue Game Design, or class Design, With the current Crafting system.
Scouts which need to make camps/traps, They can either design a whole new scout/ranger crafting system, code new methods to connect to the main database, or just use the existing system. Which Route did they take?
Why is it as a player community should we be more concerned about how the devs designed things then just playing the game? Its only A game, a very fun game at that.
Frankly I'm tired of all the people that think they can do a better job then SOE, I think SOE has Done a great job at a very good game
"That's fine. I'm not saying that camps are not USEFUL, just that I don't think that they're the BEST ability that Scouts have. With maskscent working correctly, I don't have to worry about going anywhere on a hostile planet, because I can (generally) avoid confrontations. If you hate going into town, that's just fine...that's a playstyle difference, but in no way convinces me that because of that fact, camps are THE best ability that Scouts have"
My point is not to convince you but to make you aware that not every player feels my way or your way. Just that camping is often overlooked by people that feel its boring, not fast enough BLEH LBHELB B*TCH B*TCH B*TCH
Often those that lack the ability to sit down more then 4 minutes , with out the need to shoot something.
"My bottom line: Should camps AS THEY ARE CURRENTLY IMPLEMENTED be opened to other classes? NO. Could they be implemented in such a way as to generate a new market for Scouts, but also provide incentives for people to invest skill points in the skills? Yes. "
Grand concept could be reasonable but No and No.
And here is why. (These are general statements not directed at anyone)
Scouts and Rangers complain about markets.
Deal with what abilities we have, god forbid someone could actually get creative and or ROLEPLAY. Meet people, Learn what people want. Frankly I'm getting tired of people complaing about I can't make any money at Scout/ranger. All I say is then your not trying.
Incentives for people to Invest skill points in Scout or Ranger. Camping is hardly the route to do it. with 50% of people whining about how long survial xp takes
Does the scout/ranger community honestly think the ablitiy to pop up a camp is gonna increase the amount of scouts or rangers.?
Your biggest Draw to the scout profession are CH and Bounty Hunters the 2 most popular Professions in the game, Thats our ace, Deal the cards dealt to ya
I totally respect what your saying and all. I just don't agree.
It absolutely floors me that any scout would be opposed to the idea of selling basic camps to non-scouts. REIwas essentially founded on the principle of providing easy to setup camps to just about anyone.
Next thing you know scouts will insist that all artisan crafted objects should only be usable by artisans 
I also think that Stim-A's should be useable by anyone. Both of those changes would make for a more pleasant and realistic game IMHO. I think this post brings up two very good ideas.
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Luno So'Laeir, Master Scout, Chilastra Galaxy
I will also say no to this one. I do agree with Delta in saying that a group should always have a scout ... but they also need a medic, entertainer, chef (because those runs can make you hungry), couple of melees and ranged people. Now that is a group.
Also, I agree that you have points spend them. Heck, I want to be able to heal myself, but I can't. I actually have to *shudders at the thought* talk to people in a game that is based on multiple people playing together. If I wanted to play a game where I didn't interact with people, I would play my Sims game.
I think that there should no freebies given to any class.
Alexyys - Novice TKA and Creature Handler (Almost a Master Scout, though)