Scout Archive

1. Group Harvesting:
   a) Anything that promotes grouping is good for a MMORPG. Anything that pushes people away from groups needs to have a very good reason for being there. The harvest reduction makes some people avoid grouping. It is meant to keep the market from getting too many resources. Currently a crafter can get just about as much of a resource as he wants if he has a lot of money. Smaller crafters can't afford to pay others for the best resources. If they want them, they have to get the stuff themselves, pushing many people away from crafting. Not wanting to get too long winded here, I'll just finish this part up by saying that the group harvesting reduction is a bad thing and it might not even be worth making it a Scout/Ranger benefit (it's probably a lot easier for the Devs to code a total removal of the penalty than to put in a form of mitigation and the penalty could still cause a significant number of people to avoid groups for harvesting).
   


2. Multiple Resource Harvesting:
   This might be somewhat difficult to code but I definately think it should be done. While a straight harvest increase might be more useful (and probably should come in addition to anything else), multiple harvests are a good thing for the economy and a realistic idea. Currently hunters usually go for the best resource available (i.e. the one with the highest rate of pay) and anyone who wants something else is out of luck (especially people who want grind grade stuff but have to pay somewhat premium prices). By "forcing" a player to collect resources other than their prime target, regular resources become more widely available (especially with the resource converters). The hunter will still get extra money from the harvestbut they can charge a lot less for lower quality resources as they will have some extra anyway.
   


3. Harvesting skill attachments:
   These would add a nice bonus for hunters but there are some potential problems to consider.
   a) Some skill tapes can cause severe unbalance in the system: weapon speed tapes, crafting experimentation, etc. I don't think harvesting should have this problem but care needs to be taken. The main worry here will be with the new loot system.
   b) Content ?shouldn't? be limited to players who have collected skill tapes/obtained FS harvesting. With the new loot changes coming, it might be possible that certain items could only be obtained by a Master Ranger with skill tapes and the FS bonus. I don't think this should be the case (although a higher chance of success might be appropriate).
   c) Obtaining skill tapes is currently limited mostly to PvNPC. If harvesting tapes and such are available, might it be a good idea to include them in creature loot tables?

Sorry if this is a bit convoluted but I just typed what came to mind. I couldn't fit it in to a good/bad appraisal either as many comments are more of a grey.

1. Sounds good to me. Nothing to add.

2. I don't think we need to impose limits at this point, or guess what the developers would want for limits. I say ask for all three resources and only suggest limits if required.

There is a lot of justification for asking for all three - true hunter gatherers would take everything from a creature and use it. Currently we act more like the Western settlers in the US who hunted buffalo for only the hides, leaving acres of rotting carcasses behind. It is unattractive to think of and to RP.

3. Sounds good. Nothing to add.

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JBMat wrote:

This will kick off what I hope will be a discussion series I am starting: One per month

This month:

HARVESTING ISSUES:

1. Group harvesting: Currently we lose 40% of our harvest if grouped, even with non-harvesters. I would recommend that the harvesting cut be reduced to 20% at Master Scout, and 0% at Master Ranger.

Good:

Bad: Potential exploit of 20 scouts harvesting 2k worth of resources off 1 creature, I don't like the group reduction but I understand it.

2. One resource per creature: another situation that begs the question - why? A Master Scout should have the ability to harvest 2 resources. But to throw a bone to the Devs - the first is at 100%, the second at 80%. Master Rangers get 3, at 100/80/60. Creatures with fewer than 3 resources follow the general guideline.

Good: Personally I don't understand why we don't just have a /harvest command and harvest all the resoruces off a creature. Does the meat and bones turn to dust when we harvest the hide?

Bad: I don't see a bad to this

3. No Bio-mod, CA/AA mods for harvesting: Can we get some?

Good:

Bad:

Um Vegadesh? wouldn't that be a bio mod? or do you mean wearables.

What I want:

No stars, no smiley faces...Intelligent, thought out arguments. Reasoning - why this is good, this is bad. Give me reasons. I hate statistics, so hold them to a minimum, but showing the increase in harvesting numerically would be fine.

I have my reasons why I think these ideas are good and bad, but I want yours. Yes, I include Rangers in this as they are a natural progression fromScout. This will help me in trying to get some stuff for us in the upcoming revamps.

Finally, yes two of the three revisions are weighted to Master Scouts. Dabblers get bennies from their many professions. I think that Masters should get more than they do now, in all professions. If you disagree, include this in your reasons.

What this will accomplish: Revamps are coming. Currently our wish list is dated, not that badly, but it's time for some new ideas.

Start thinking, start writing

JB

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Oh and the schmatic thing. Yes it was a glitch, then lowered schmatics down to the indended number (100) for 1 patch and the outcry was enormous. One of the main reasons people complained was that schmatics that required factory parts then were limited to about 29 from a factory run. Imagine haveing to do 4 factory runs to produce 29 items?

Message Edited by taloncard on 02-08-2005 10:04 AM

1. Group harvesting: Yes this is a good idea. As it is now if I'm going for a specific resource I need to go solo as a 40% reduction is VERY noticeable at Tracking IV / Master Ranger. This is sad especially when I have a Ranger friend that I'd like to hunt with for company, I mean come on it's a MMORPG (that bold M is for Multiplayer ). XP goes up in groups, so should harvesting. Well maybe not up but definitely not down!

2. Multiple harvests per creature: I've never really thought about this one before but it's an interesting idea. I think the key here is that there needs to be a significant and noticeable advantage to Master Scouts and Rangers for collecting resources (as opposed to an uber combat template with novice scout out-harvesting us by volume). This would be one step in that direction.

Another benefit here is cheaper resources for crafters. Hunting is my profession and it's how I make my living, and as such I follow the in-demand resources that bring in a premium. Now while I'm harvesting that 50+cpu doctor meat, I can be picking up extra hide that I can unload cheap at no extra effort on my part. Good for beginning crafters.

3. BIO/CA/AA mods: Yes! you only need so many points in Camo/MS, and TN is only for Rifleman or professional speedcrawlers. So it would be nice to see a useful mod to collect. I don't use droids (hate the things!) so this is a nice alternative. Plus we could then add '12-point Ranger' to our sigs

• Group Harvesting
  
  
  
  • Good - I like what you suggest. 20% reduction at master scout, 0% at master ranger. I would like to see 0% reduction for both professions, however.
    
    
  • Bad - None.
    
    
  • Comments - group harvest penalties reduce the master ranger (63 sp invested) to little more than a master scout who can track. You can't promote group play when you essentially penalize/eliminate one of only two useful skills that rangers have by being grouped. Flooding the "market"? It doesn't make sense to me, when cross-server lot trading of harvesters continues unabated. It's like suggesting that mineral harvesters harvest less if you place more than one structure.
    
  
  
• Multiple Resources
  
  
  
  • Good - Would make it easier on crafters needing avian bone or bristley hide, rather than herbivore or avian meat.
    
    
  • Bad - Would this be a /command? Or would it be tied to creature Harvest levels? Multiple resources could be great, but it depends on how it's implemented. All or one makes sense, but how would a scout harvest two? which ones? would it be random? Could you choose, and if so, how would that work?
    
    
  • Comments - . When was the last time anyone did a contract for animal or avian bone? It only makes sense to take it from the creature when you remove the meat or hide.
    
  
  
• BE clothing attachments or Harvesting bonuses
  
  
  
  • Good - If BE crafted -- Good business for tailors & BE's, and they get a new craftable. Good for scouts/rangers if that tissue uses creature resources to craft.
    
    
  • Bad - CAs/AAs for harvesting take away from what crafters could be doing. The only player interaction it creates is by people using the Trade Forums and meeting up in-game at a bank to trade.
    
    
  • Comments - Wouldn't be a bad idea if it were BE tissues used in tailor components, and used in Reinforced Fiber Panel only. It's useable in many scout/ranger style clothes, can't be maxed out at +25 for a single item (like synthetic cloth), and if you really want that bonus to creature harvesting, you might not be able to wear your ms/camo clothing or melee/stun/bleed clothing. With a range of +14 to +17 or so per clothing item (max of +25), that's a decent tradeoff.
    
  
  

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Owen-Lars wrote:

#2 CAN be done Nemo i can guarentee you that. Whether it WILL be done is another question but it is technically possible

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I wasn't arguing against that. I was just saying that it might not be the easiest thing to do. And difficulty of coding is always a consideration. And different implementations have different difficulties. It is almost certainly easier to just dump one stack of every type of resource on the creature as a harvest all option than to harvest once at 100%, another time at 80%, and a third time at 60% and only allowing resources not previously harvested. But you could probably give a harvest all modifier based on skill level (like 60% of all resources at Master Scout ramping up to 100% at Master Ranger) without too much extra work over a standard harvest all (although it would negate many of the benefits of giving a harvest all option for everyone but Rangers--who wants to get 60% of the uber avian in exchange for some extra hide and bone).

1. Group harvesting: Currently we lose 40% of our harvest if grouped, even with non-harvesters. I would recommend that the harvesting cut be reduced to 20% at Master Scout, and 0% at Master Ranger.

Good:You get more resources, potentially a LOT more resources, making folks who need them happy.

Bad:You get too many resources and as a result you devalue them, making it less worth the trouble of harvesting them in the first place.

2. One resource per creature: another situation that begs the question - why? A Master Scout should have the ability to harvest 2 resources. But to throw a bone to the Devs - the first is at 100%, the second at 80%. Master Rangers get 3, at 100/80/60. Creatures with fewer than 3 resources follow the general guideline.

Good:You get more resources, potentially a LOT more resources, making folks who need them happy.

Bad:You get too many resources and as a result you devalue them, making it less worth the trouble of harvesting them in the first place.

3. No Bio-mod, CA/AA mods for harvesting: Can we get some?

Good: Makes perfect sense

Bad: Cant think of anything bad to say on this, however it will be tricky balanacing out the mods with other mods you may have (like +cover/camo) and since items like boots, gloves, headwear cant be modded, your options may be limited.

1. Group harvesting:
Good: More incentive to grouping for master scouts and upwards. Or rather less incentive to not group.
Bad: Novice scouts would still have incentive to not group, witch is bad for the players starting out new characters. (But that is also, how it is now)

2. One resource per creature:
Good: More "low" quality resources would become avalible on the servers. This would be good not only for tailors and architects, who can use any quality. It would also help in making products, made with less then "best of server" quality resources, more available. If there was large quantities of hides readily available on the market at cheep CPU's an armoursmith might decide to make cheep armour of some of it.
The same for chef's and doctors, less expensive products might start to become more common. If not made by the same people that make the ubre stuff, them by the hands of newer crafters.
Bad: How much trouble would it be to get more then one resource? If it was to troublesome not all would get the extra resources and would just harvest the one they was after and leave the rest. Moreover, the coding done would be partially waited, and the positive effects reduce.

3. No Bio-mod, CA/AA mods for harvesting:
Good: More kinds of mods are always good. Giving scouts and rangers another type of mods to go for would help create diversity.
Bad: They might be to popular, I can easily se people choosing harvest mods first, and then filling up on the others afterwards if there is room lefty. If so it would just reduce the amount of Masksent/camou clothing used. But that would be a balancing issue.
It might also give a 1040 scout to much hasting powers compared to a master scout or ranger. Again it would be a balancing issue.




Now for my personal suggestion to replace 1 and 2 from the above.
Why not let everyone harvest the full amount of resources from a creature, and of all the resources avalible on that creatur even from novice scout? The increase harvesting mods would then help in reducing the time it would take to harvest a single creature.
Say by the formula: [Creature Level]/[Players Creature Harvest] measured in minutes.
A scout with 10 in harvesting would take 5 minutes to harvest a CL 50 creature, and a ranger with 100 in harvesting would take 30 sec to harvest the same CL 50 creature. After a creature was harvested, it would be removed from the world. (looting it would thus become a instigated part of harvesting to avoid the loot being accidentally deleted)
The benefit to grouping would be that different members of the group could work on different creatures. For example if a group of 4 scouts killed 4 CL 60 creatures they could work on one each, so instead of one scout harvesting them all at 3 min each all 4 would be harvested in 4 minutes. That would mean that the over all harvesting time would be reduced for the same amounts of killing powers.
It would mean that the amount a scout could harvest in a given time would depend on the scouts harvesting skills, and not one the killing power of the scout. A novice scout that could kill 20 CL 50+ creatures in 5 min, could not instantly harvest them all as they can now. Having harvesting skills the limiting factor in getting creature resources would only is logically.
It would mean that a Master would have a benefit in grouping with a novice scout with a dual combated master or stacker, for the increased killing power. And the dual combat master or stacker would have a benefit in grouping with a master ranger for the decrease in harvesting times.

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Owen-Lars wrote:

Nemo Wrote:

"I wasn't arguing against that. I was just saying that it might not be the easiest thing to do"

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I wasnt either Just hinting that it has been talked about by devs also

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1. Group harvesting: Currently we lose 40% of our harvest if grouped, even with non-harvesters. I would recommend that the harvesting cut be reduced to 20% at Master Scout, and 0% at Master Ranger.

Good:

• Scouts and Rangers get more resources


• gets rid of the decentive for grouping.

Bad:

• ...

2. One resource per creature: another situation that begs the question - why? A Master Scout should have the ability to harvest 2 resources. But to throw a bone to the Devs - the first is at 100%, the second at 80%. Master Rangers get 3, at 100/80/60. Creatures with fewer than 3 resources follow the general guideline.

Good:

• Scouts and Rangers get more diversity in resources at one time.

Bad:

• Too much being harvested. Should be more 60/40/20 split imo - should be a choice to make rather than an automatic perk.

3. No Bio-mod, CA/AA mods for harvesting: Can we get some?

Good:

• Allows us to harvest more.

Bad:

• I suspect they added it to a droid to not make it an automatic perk but rather one that has a cost. Having bio-modded clothing, CA's & AA's would go against that idea. I'd prefer a method that also had a cost - like a belt that needed batteries to use orhaving a certain number of uses that could be recharged. That way we get our mod without having to use a droid (which many dislike) but it still has the same risk/reward dynamic.