Rifleman Archive
Thread: New HAM system will doctors become invincible?
. Anyway, since I usually spend a lot of my time here in the Rifleman forums, and I know we have a bunch of riflemen/doctors out there, I thought I'd post it here to see what you all think.
They aren't removing mind as an attackable pool. It was a poorly worded statement that was somehow even interpreted worse.
AlaManQ5 wrote:
point and counterpoint
If they are REMOVING Mind as an attackable pool, i wonder what the Devs will do about Heavy Swordsman and Rifleman specials that target the Mind Pool, huh?
I guess HeadHit and MindShot or whatever won't be doing mind damage anymore.
Tsalmaveth wrote:
If they make mind healable, what will they do to make us unique? Unhealable mind damage was always the club they hit us over the head with to say why we have the disadvantages we did. If mind becomes healable on the average, we should retain our current speed.
true but that was back in the day when we had disadvantages
And I mean real disadvantages.
AlaManQ5 wrote:
point and counterpoint
If they are REMOVING Mind as an attackable pool, i wonder what the Devs will do about Heavy Swordsman and Rifleman specials that target the Mind Pool, huh?
I guess HeadHit and MindShot or whatever won't be doing mind damage anymore.
They are not removing mind as an attackable pool. Please stop keeping this rumor alive. The comment that people interpreted this from was poorly worded, but, IMHO, the only reasonable interpetation for this was that mind would be made healable (moreso than it is now) as the original post questioned.
If they are removing mind as an attackable pool, then they areremoving ALL targeted pool attacks, because that same quote said that the reason they were removing mind as a "special damage type" was that they wanted to make damage to all pools equal. They cannot remove mind as a targetable pool and make damage to all pools equal. "Special damage type" means a damage type that is handled differently (i.e., unlike health and action, mind is pretty much unhealable), not "a type of damage done by specials." The quote never suggested that they were removing all targeted pool attacks, so there is no reason to believe they are removing mind targetging. The original poster is correct that mind will likely become stimable.
UWSkeletor wrote:
Hello,
I tried posting this in the GCW forum, but didn't get too much response, not to mention the 1-star ninja hit all my posts for some reason
This post will be mostly conjecture, since no one really knows what is going to happen with the new HAM system, but the general consensus that I've seen is that since the new system takes from the max HAM, instead of damaging it, they will make mind stimable. So I'm curious how they will do that, do you think they will just add the mind stat to all existing stim's, like Stim-A's, B's, etc.? If so I think it would pretty much make a doctor/X invincible. They are already pretty powerful at the moment, but this might move them up into the godly realms.
Think about it, how would you kill one? Right now the only real way to take them out is the mind pool. I'd be curious to see how many people it would take to kill a buffed/armored doctor out by hitting their health or action pool right now, but I'm guessing it would be numerous. Now that's how it would be if you could heal the mind as effectively as the other pools. You can't dizzy+kd them, they can cure the dizzy state. You can't poison/disease them, they can cure that. You can't set them on fire, they can cure that. What can you do?
Granted, I suppose it is possible the dev's have considered this somehow that I'm not seeing, but I wouldn't put it past them to not even consider it. Anyone have any ideas on this or see something that I am missing? Thanks
/unhijack
Well, now that we have taken a couple of little excursions, let's try to address UW's original quesiton.
The change to where mind will become healable will make the lives of professions that attack the mind a little more difficult, but I do not think it will make Docs invincible. We already know that the cost of specials is changing to being assessed against the max values of the pool secondaries (though the original reports seemed to say it would come from the max value of the pools themselves). But either way, neither the secondaries nor the max values of the pools or the secondaries are affected by stims. This means that HAM usage is no longer "damage," but it alsomeansthat these costs will now become unhealable for all pools, not just Mind.
This is important to note because healing damage is a special move that has a HAM usage (the mind pool). That HAM usage is assesed against the mind pool just like any combat-related special move is assessed against the pools it affects. Since we know that HAM use from special moveswill not be healable, HAM use from healing will notlikely be healable either. The HAM costs from applying a heal will have to be naturally regenerated just like any other HAM cost.
Therefore, while Docs will likely have an advantage because Mind will become a healable pool, mind use from from the healing itself will continue to be unhealable, and, therefore, healing will not be able to be done non-stop.
In one way, this is a disadvantage to all professions that attack mind. Our targeted pool will become healable just like everyone else's, but, on the other hand, Riflemen will no longer be the only profession that cannot heal damage done by their own specials and, so, we will have far less adjustment to do than all the other professions.
AlaManQ5 wrote:
point and counterpoint
If they are REMOVING Mind as an attackable pool, i wonder what the Devs will do about Heavy Swordsman and Rifleman specials that target the Mind Pool, huh?
I guess HeadHit and MindShot or whatever won't be doing mind damage anymore.
it will be attackable, just not incap a player.
AlaManQ5 wrote:
point and counterpoint
If they are REMOVING Mind as an attackable pool, i wonder what the Devs will do about Heavy Swordsman and Rifleman specials that target the Mind Pool, huh?
I guess HeadHit and MindShot or whatever won't be doing mind damage anymore.
well, there is no word that they are removing mind as an attackable pool, they just said mind would not be a determining factor anymore. So although I guess it could be possible that they remove mind from being attacked, you could also read that as saying that mind will become healable, which in my opinion seems a much more likely scenario.
Gooney wrote:
Interesting discussion. As a doc I think that its still important to point out that however the mind damage issue is dealt with the mind pool is still the least buffable of all HAMs.
Even with entertainer buffs, brandy, canapes, and a muon themind pool can be decimated if very short order, particularily if a mind poison is applied.
They could deal with this in one of two ways.
1. Make mind attacks not possible. This won't happen as too many profs use these types of attacks as thier trademark specials.
2. Make mind healable. This is most likely but I don't see how they could do it really. As a Master Doc in stun layer composite armor, I dont see how anyone could do damage to me fast enoughthat I couldnt heal it. I mean my stim d's easily heal for 2000 a shot with a (maybe 2 second) delay between heals.
If they put the mind heal on the same timer as the enhance/wound heal timer then it could work. This would move the doc into a more support oriented group roll in pvp. Which many would argue is as it should be. You would still be able to heal yourself but the time between should allow enough damage oppertunity to make PvP fair.
-Gooney
This is what I was trying to get at. Although the one person won't be able to continually heal, that isn't necessary for a doc. If he can heal all 3 pools for 2k a pop, he can just stand there in a full suit of stun armor and demolish people. When it looks like any of his bars are getting low, boom, one heal and he is basically back to full strength. They can sort of do that now, except for the mind pool. So I doubt a pistoleer or carbineer would have any shot against a doc currently, since they can't hit the mind pool. The small amounts of damage they do that gets through the armor can easily be healed.
Add to that that a doc can cure dizzy, poison, disease, and fire, and what is the tactic that you would use to take one out? It would take several people attacking one doc at once to take him out fast enough that he couldn't heal himself back up.
Of course all of this is on the assumption that with the new HAM system they just add mind to the stimpacks the same as health and action.
Vicci A'Tivo - Elder "in your face" Bounty Hunter