Rifleman Archive
Thread: New HAM system will doctors become invincible?
SpunkyKuma wrote:
Isn't mind already healable? By a CM maybe, I was healing a musician due to his screwed up macro and it was eating my mind, a CM came along and filled my mind pool with a wave of her magic hand...what the hell was that?? I think mind's healable already.
Yes, I understand that mind is healable right now, but a CM cannot heal their own mind, and take big wounds to heal someone else's mind, that is why you rarely see anyone healing mind. I have no problems with this.
I am talking about if they make mind stimable with the new HAM system. This will remove any penalty for healing the mind pool and allow people to heal their own mind pool, not to mention it would allow a doctor to heal all HAM bars for 2k a pop, every 2 seconds. Once again, this is all under the assumption that they would just add the mind stat to a stim pack. I was not on test center when they added these changes for a bit, nor does anyone really know what the devs meant when they said that mind would no longer be the determining factor in the new HAM system.
Barb-Wire wrote:
well they dont neccessarily HAVE to make the mind pool healable they are probably going to make all the pools untargetable remove the ham bar system put in one bar for life and that will come from weighted averages from the HAM pools. there will liekly be a second bar for special actions that is goverened by the secondaries.
least the way that i would have done it would have been something like that. one pool for damage one for special moves each governed by your stats in health action mind and their secondaries. if something like that does not pop up in the revamp i will be very surprised.
I would be surprised if they did this for two reasons.
Message Edited by Sotaudi on 04-27-2004 11:40 AM
Interesting discussion. As a doc I think that its still important to point out that however the mind damage issue is dealt with the mind pool is still the least buffable of all HAMs.
Even with entertainer buffs, brandy, canapes, and a muon themind pool can be decimated if very short order, particularily if a mind poison is applied.
They could deal with this in one of two ways.
1. Make mind attacks not possible. This won't happen as too many profs use these types of attacks as thier trademark specials.
2. Make mind healable. This is most likely but I don't see how they could do it really. As a Master Doc in stun layer composite armor, I dont see how anyone could do damage to me fast enoughthat I couldnt heal it. I mean my stim d's easily heal for 2000 a shot with a (maybe 2 second) delay between heals.
If they put the mind heal on the same timer as the enhance/wound heal timer then it could work. This would move the doc into a more support oriented group roll in pvp. Which many would argue is as it should be. You would still be able to heal yourself but the time between should allow enough damage oppertunity to make PvP fair.
-Gooney
UWSkeletor wrote:
So do you think they will increase the times between heals? I still think that no one will be able to take out a doctor 1 vs 1 in this system because it will take you awhile to actually deal 2k damage, of which they can just heal. So unless the devs put a huge amount of thought into the "combat balance", which I have little faith in believing that they will, I think doctors would become the new FOTM.
I think what I was trying to get at is that since a doctor can heal 2k a pop, how often do you think they would really have to heal themselves? Meaning, how long does it take a person to deal 2k of damage. I think it would take awhile, and if it takes longer to deal 2k of damage then it takes for the doctors mind bar to regain it's max value from using a stim, then doctors will be pretty invincible, unless you have several people attacking them at once, in which case, yes they would not be able to keep up with the heals.
Or maybe I'm completely confused on how the new system will work. If you have 500/1000 mind left, and you use a heal that costs lets say 100 mind, will you have 900/900?This was my understanding of how it is going to work. Also, I'm guessing Focus and Willpower will still play a role in how much a special costs and how fast it regens. So they would have to change existing foods or increase special costs because you can easily get a high enough focus to use specials at no cost.
First, we are all confused, because they will not tell us what they are going to do 
So I would not let that bother you.
Regarding your example, there have been some conflicting reports on this. I, too, originally heard that the HAM costs would come from the maximum value of the pool. If that were the case, then I suspect that what would happen in your example is that they would go, as you suggest, to 900/900. The recovery to 1000 would take place only by natural regen, though at a faster rate than damage recovers. However, others who say they saw the changes first-hand said that the costs for specials will come from the max value of the secondaries, not the primary pool. If this is the case, as I suspect it is, then the heal in your example would recover to 1000/1000, but because Focus is being reduced, each special will cost you more, and if Willpower is also reduced, your recovery time will slow. So there are balances there as well if this is the way they go.
Remember, the stated purpose of the HAM system change is to keep people from spamming specials. And since the only reason, IMHO, that the mind pool is unhealable is to keep medical types from being able to heal continuously, I am not concerned that Docs would be unstoppable. Making the changes to the HAM system where HAM costs are unhealable accomplishes that however it is finally worked out. That is, I expect that they will bring healing into line with other special use and make it so that a Doc cannot endlessly heal just like we will not be able to spam specials all day, even buffed.
Sotaudi wrote:
UWSkeletor wrote:
SpunkyKuma wrote:
Isn't mind already healable? By a CM maybe, I was healing a musician due to his screwed up macro and it was eating my mind, a CM came along and filled my mind pool with a wave of her magic hand...what the hell was that?? I think mind's healable already.
Yes, I understand that mind is healable right now, but a CM cannot heal their own mind, and take big wounds to heal someone else's mind, that is why you rarely see anyone healing mind. I have no problems with this.
I am talking about if they make mind stimable with the new HAM system. This will remove any penalty for healing the mind pool and allow people to heal their own mind pool, not to mention it would allow a doctor to heal all HAM bars for 2k a pop, every 2 seconds. Once again, this is all under the assumption that they would just add the mind stat to a stim pack. I was not on test center when they added these changes for a bit, nor does anyone really know what the devs meant when they said that mind would no longer be the determining factor in the new HAM system.
This is what I was trying to get at. Yes, they will be able to heal mind, but they will not be able to do this "every 2 seconds." Remember, the stated purpose of this HAM system change is to prevent people from spamming specials. Since, as I tried to point out, heals are a type of special move, they should fall into the same mechanisms as combat special moves. The cost of the heal will not be credited as damage, which would be healable, but will be taken from an unhealable mechanism (i.e., the max of the secondaries), which can only be recovered naturally. So, yes, Docs would be able to heal mind, but they will not be able to keep up those 2K heals because, eventually, they will run out of pool points that they cannot heal.
Will it make killing a Doc more difficult than it is now? Yes, but that will be true of everyone, because mind will be healable. But the whole intent of this new system is to make spamming of specials more difficult. Thus, I would have to assume the same will be true of heals.
So do you think they will increase the times between heals? I still think that no one will be able to take out a doctor 1 vs 1 in this system because it will take you awhile to actually deal 2k damage, of which they can just heal. So unless the devs put a huge amount of thought into the "combat balance", which I have little faith in believing that they will, I think doctors would become the new FOTM.
I think what I was trying to get at is that since a doctor can heal 2k a pop, how often do you think they would really have to heal themselves? Meaning, how long does it take a person to deal 2k of damage. I think it would take awhile, and if it takes longer to deal 2k of damage then it takes for the doctors mind bar to regain it's max value from using a stim, then doctors will be pretty invincible, unless you have several people attacking them at once, in which case, yes they would not be able to keep up with the heals.
Or maybe I'm completely confused on how the new system will work. If you have 500/1000 mind left, and you use a heal that costs lets say 100 mind, will you have 900/900?This was my understanding of how it is going to work. Also, I'm guessing Focus and Willpower will still play a role in how much a special costs and how fast it regens. So they would have to change existing foods or increase special costs because you can easily get a high enough focus to use specials at no cost.