Rifleman Archive

Aldeon will most likely be bringing up structured debate threads for each of the issues that have been recently discussed. Id like to prove we, as a community, can act mature about this. Therefore, i have made this thread to discuss one of the more potentially volitile debates:

Should Strafe Shot 2 be changed to something more fitting for a rifleman, like Headshot 4 or Mindshot 3 (or both HS4 & MS3) ?

For those who dont know, our current master rifleman skill is Strafe Shot 2. It is an area of effect attack that strikes multiple opponents simotaniouly in a cone that extends out from the rifleman. The attack randomly targets one of the 3 HAM pools for very large damage.

This thread is for debate on whether this cone-like area of affect (AOE) attack should be changed to something that fits more into the rifleman profession like Headshot 4 or Mindshot 3 (or both).

My personal opinion is that Strafe Shot 2 is a completely ludicrous idea that was given to us with no thought what-so-ever by the devs. It is SILLY, STUPID, and OUTRAGEOUS to imagine a rifle doing an attack that a flame thrower or full auto machine gun would do.

I propose that instead of this blatantly un-rifleman like attack we get something that fits in with our more traditional attack. I believe we should be given Headshot4 for our master rifleman attack skill.

Headshot 4 should be a VERY powerful attack. It should be a MUCH higher jump in damage than HS3 was from HS2. Headshot4 would do extremely high mind damage and should also stun the enemy.

Why do I think this would be so valuable?

1. PvP is going down to 75% damage. This means that our 1500-2000 dmg strafe shots will be doing375-500 dmg, mostly to health or action. As a novice doctor i can heal for 800/800 on those 2 stats. Consider this carefully.

2. If we were given a single attack headshot that did MASSIVE amounts of mind damage it would keep us acting like rifleman SHOULD be acting both in PvP and in PvE. We would retain our ability to do un-healable damage against PC foes, while devastating the mind pools of NPC's we hunt.

Its your choice: Silly flamethrower attack that does easily healable damage? Or, a devastating mind attack that will allow us to remain the kings of damage per shot and retain our ability to attack an un-healable pool?

I find the choice obvious.. i hope most of you will see the logic in this.

If you read the description it doesn't say anything about an Area effect attack...

I'm pretty sure it being AE is a bug... Startleshot2 is also AE but description lists it as singletarget... Carbiner also has some attacks like this I believe, that are bugged AE and shouldn't be.

Ok, lets for the moment accept that it MIGHT be a bug and that it MIGHT be getting nerfed into a single target attack that randomly hits one of the 3 HAM pools.

Does this make you MORE or LESS supportive of changing the attack to Headshot4 or Minshot3?

Honestly I like having a high damage skill that hits random pools, it makes us more group friendly... and I dunno if you noticed but sometimes a mob has lower health then it does mind

I'm pretty happy with strafeshot as is, although if they exchanged strafeshot2 with headshot3 (ie lower strafeshot2 damage and put it where headshot3 is, put headshot3 at top with higher damage) that would be nice

"1. PvP is going down to 75% damage. This means that our 1500-2000 dmg strafe shots will be doing375-500 dmg, mostly to health or action. As a novice doctor i can heal for 800/800 on those 2 stats. Consider this carefully. "

Um where did you get this info? please direct me to a thread where the devs actually state this.

no.

just cause its going to be inconsistent with the rest of the combat class (having bleed3 and pool4)

sure we don't need to be consistent... but its just asking for too much attention right now

as it is, headshot 3 is already strong to the point of hard to use (cause of the HAM cost)

headshot 4 (if u wanna make it better than 3) is gonna cost an arm and a leg to perform)...

i really don't know what they should do with our master skill though...

btw to the last guy that post ^, the 75% pvp reduction is being implemented in the Testing Center... check around. plenty ofposts going on about it.. i don't think its fake.

The 75% damage reduction in PvP is most definately not fake, and proof of it cant be found anywhere in this forum of in the main site.

Skytalle, of course i understand that it is a cool attack. But i also realize that its completely out of wack with the rifleman profession.

What are riflemen? If you had asked that question of anyone using rifles from novice marksman to master sniping accuracy you would get the answer: "We precision strike a distant target for massive amounts of damage, usually to the mind". And thats what it SHOULD be.

When you get master rifleman, though, what does the answer become? "We use AOE to hit everyone at once for random damage"

Ill be the first one to admit that right now, this seems like a sweet deal. But THINK!!!

1. It DOESNT fit with the riflemen
2. When the 75% reduction goes in our damage with strafeshot will be CRAP because 80% of the time it will hit action or health and someone with novice medic with good stim B's can heal for more than the 375-500 youll be doing. A novice combat medic can heal an ENTIRE GROUP for that much.

I can just see all of you people who love SF2 to come running back in here biching and crying when a single novice combat medic erases all the damage you do in a single heal. THEN youll wish you had an attack that actually fit into the rifleman profession.

Mr. Tokai,

All this means is that there needs to be arevamp to the amount of mind used in a headshot attack. Honestly, i dont get affected that much. I have 900/600/600 for my mind and mind sub stats. The ONLY thing that phases my mind pool is a laser rifle.

Yes i agree. The move at the very top of our profession should carry on with the theme of doing mind damage. And not some random pool AOE. Shouldnt AOE be left to the carb and commando professions.. as they seem to weild the more indescriminate weapons.

One more thing that should be mentioned. Its being passed around the forum that "conceal shot" be changed to a pre-attack that would turn any other rifleman attack into a concealed shot (like, for instance, concealed headshot3).

This would make the entire branch dedicated to cover and concealment 500x more useful to riflemen. The only thing thats likely to keep SOE from doing it? The fact that concealed SF2 would be unbalanced.

So not only is it unrealistic, not only is it about to become next to useless in PvP (compared to the permanent damage done by headshots), but now its going to stand in the way of us becoming actual SNIPERS.

Sheeesh. I KNOW those of you who use strafe shot 2 like it. In 2-3 days i will have it and I WILL LIKE IT. Despite that, i can see that it DOESNT fit!

Pistoleers i meet in game are just like us. Deep down they ALL KNOW that their pistols shodnt be doing good acc at 63 meters. Many of them, however, will say that this should not be nerfed. I feel it is the same with many of you. But what your not realizing is....... ITS NOT A NERF!!!

Sinse the point of this debate being whether or not Strafe shot 2 is thematic for the rifleman, I will adress that first. It could be. Let's consider it from a different angle than the normal AoE idea wich is usually thought of in terms of a blast or splash damage. Strafe Shot 2 is granted at master rifleman, a skill that only a person who has dedicated their life to the subtlties of how to use a rifle in every possible situation. Does it not stand to reason that an expert of such callibur could fire off a rapid sieres of shots at mutiple tragets with high accuracy. More of a sequential targeting of foes (say from left to right) in rapid succession. The only way to simulate that effect in a game like this is with an area effect. I know of people in our armed forces right now (from the Marine Crop's Force Recon) that could fire 6 high accuracy shots in under 6 seconds from much greater than 60 meters. So I think that this could be in theme for the rifleman if looked at from that perspective.

As I am no where near Master Rifleman, and will likely not master this proffesion, I can only speculate on what I would think would be appropriate for a master level skill. I have no trouble with this skill (changes to conceal shot asside, but those can be dealt with by simply making AoE shots not usable from concealment) but I would like to see a skill added. Pistoleers receive 2 special attacks at master so I think it would be fair to add one to rifleman. I would like to see a very high damage single target skill added for situations where Area is not desired or where stealth is more valuable (I think AoE shots should reduce or eliminate cover, consider how hard it is to find somone who only shoots once vs. someone who fires off multiple shots rapidly). My only concern with making it mind targeted is the possible unballancing effect. Consider a T21 with AR3 using such a shot in future PvP. even with 75% reduction in damamge I would imagine you would still be able to one shot kill with this and I believe that is what the Dev's are trying to get away from.

Lithiri / Ahazi

Sorry, but I can't agree... I want a powerful rifelman as well as anyone but considering we do dmg to a pool that can't be healed by doctor's I don't want more power... I am worried enough as it is that this game will become rifelman wars or Mind only combat... Try to find some balance guys. It should be a roll of the dice witha side of tactics that denotes the winner of a firefight... I want a challange not just the UBER class that everyone will eventually migrate to...

When you suggest large damage increase or other such things keep balance in mind as well.

I will agree that us doing an AE attack might be a bit out of whack and we don't know if it is a bug or not. AE Damage in this game is the same as turning on full auto on your weapon and spraying laser bolts all over the place without care of aim hence why it will not hit mind only.

One last thing...

Sometimes we might need to figure out ways to explain things in game that allow for tactics to playa larger role in the combat. Like suppression fire makes sense to me and is a tactical bonus to the combat of the game (when it works). Who is to say that the riflemen only takes longer to fire simply because he has to take more time to aim then a pistol user...

Surely I can fire a rifle as fast as a pistol (unless it is bolt action) but I won't be accurate. Perhaps a rifleman at master is so good with a rifle that even on full automatic blasting out rounds that he can slow the rifle spread as he passes targets just enought o make sure he hits them in SOME HAM bar.

I don't know guys work with them a bit but don't ask to be god please or half the time you will be god and the other half you will be slain by the imp clone of a god and his 500 clone buddies.

I'm fine with there not being an AE in the rifleman set. I'm not a big fan of adding one more of the same thing, though. What about these instead?:

Why not a knockdown shot? Is it realistic that a weapon that can hit from 65m isn't powerful enough to knockdown the target?

How about an ability to target health or action? Would be nice to be able to direct fire when working as part of a team who is doing damage to the other two stats.