Rifleman Archive
Thread: Rifleman PVP
I've been reading alot of posts about people saying Riflemen are terrible at PVP. I can't disagree with you all more. Im a master rifleman, and I can truthfully say I am one of the best PvP'ers around now. The KD nerf helped 200% now that we can actually fight. Not many can withstand 4-5 shots, and at master I shoot just as fast as a BH using eyeshot. But I can hit up to 800 per second when my laser hits for max damage, happens rarely but happens.
Many may disagree with me also, but when I plan to be pvping for awhile I will eata Nuon gold or a Gray Gabaki or w/e. This allows me to headshot 3 for about 40 mind, basically allowing me to spam it with almost no penalties to my mind. I know alot of you hate using spices due to the down time, but its really not bad at all, the worst part is if you die right after you eat it, because 8mins later you will get the downer, buta death will clear these up. And also after the downer you experience stat gimpage, but any crafted food will clear you back to normal.
There are many tactics you can use and some situations require different approaches. These I will let you figure out by yourself, but if you post a question I will try and answer it.
p.s. Novice rilfeman i feel sorry for you it will be difficult, but in the end it will be worth it. Also what I did to help level up was become a CH, working 2 skills at once. I soloed 95% of rifleman. Just the approach I used.
-Awkward , Master Sharpshooter
I was going pistoleer/cm but I did change my mind for Riflemam/Cm, I will use area mind poison, and mind poison, so I tought that Riflemam would be good for pvp.
But now I need to get Maskman,rifleman xp and then Riflemam, Do you have any good idea how to solo my way there???? I got good healing so that not a big pro, I'm almost Master CM.
Thanks for your time
So Tetta you have no problems hitting with a laser rifle with primary range of 60 vs an enemy player closeing in on you yet a lot other master rifleman do. Your useing a Laser rifle which has a huge damage varation a good laser rifle is 50 to 400. Which means around 10% max of your shots would be on high end your average shots would be in 300 mark.
Your useing a laser rifle which is only effective from 60 m and suffers large to hit penality at below 50 which unless you stay still most likely miss most your shots. Down side to staying still is Bounty hunters will hit all there shots. A laser rifle even with master would shot every 2 seconds unless had a speed slice and are useing a speed powerup. Even so the damage varation and large accuracy mode would leave at large disadvantage vs Eye Shot unless.
No way you could engage someone at 60 m commonly with fact 80% pvp occures inside cities.
How do you shake a pet of your character now that we have no effective means of countering them. Sure rifleman have a high damageing AOE attack but personly i find that a joke considering we are useing RIFLES not machine guns which spray lots bullets.
T21- Accuracy 60m + does decent damage fix the armor pieceing on naked targets it be a lot better
Laser rifle- Large damage varation and poor accuracy below 60m make it a poor pvp weapon in my opinion
Jawa Ion rifle- 40 m ideal range and fact does stun damage make it a good pvp weapon except it damage is slightly substandard. This could be due to material on my server not spawned in decent overall Q.
Sg82- Does cold damage but fact is most armors protect vs cold and its damage is worse then DLT-20
DLT20a- Underrated gun fact that most people dont use armor means this weapons funtion ok(really it shoulded) Has a 45 m ideal range.
See biggest problem we have as Rifleman is to do large damage we must use weapons which ideal range is 60m this is pretty poor considering most pvp encounters occure at 50 m or less in city.Meaning you instantly at disadvantage. Useing another weapon such as Jawa or Dlt-20 is option except there damage output is same when compared to scatter pistiols yet they shot slower.
My personal opinion the Jawa and Dlt-20 damage needs to increased slightly and Range ideal range on T21 or laser lowered.
For example my pvp encounter inside a star port vs a Bounty hunter went.
I equiped my jawa as i knew my laser rifle woulded hit.
Hit with couple mind 2 and mind bleed 1 as i knew that no way i could ever compete with his damage output.
I tried break Los but guess what due to SWG los system he was able to finish me by shotting through walls.
I got max 2 shots off on jawa which get got 6 with his eye shots. Most of his damage numbers where higher then mine and would be higher then if i used Headshot 3.
The only hope a rifleman vs a bounty hunter has is to use a large damageing gun hope they hit big before get toasted ( which has been lot harder in current patchs). Or use bleeding shots hope can break LOS for bleeds to take effect.
No way our damage output on average will even come close to damage output a Bounty hunter will do with Eyeshot and targeting Health or action randomly is STUPID. Did i also mention i am a doctor who can buff his Health to 2k + and generaly have my mind buffed to 1400 if i am prepared.
Race Zabrak
health 900
Action 900
Mind 1000
forcus 500
willpower 900
I have used the +500 spices before and they have never reduced the mind penatly on a Laser rifle down to level which i consider exceptable. Also i consider ideal range on laser rifle to be very poor. Fact is the spec attacks which rifleman use kill us or lead to large ammounts of downtime in PVP or PVE. For example for each shot you take at a target in pvp you might well shot yourself in head. Thats part of reason rifleman suffer so greatly vs a bounty who mind damageing shot hits for large amounts damage when compared to our piddley crappy headshot 3.
Remember we are useing a weapon with a much large average damage but the spec attack allows them to hit for same damage yet 2x as quick.
A few change to help balance this would be - lower ham costs slightly for useing head shot.
Increase damage slightly on secondary rifles
Decrease the ideal range slightly on T21 and laser so med range is 50 not 60!!.
You see currently soon range drops below 60 m which is common in pvp the large damage rifles suffering huge penalties to hit and fact is that only rifleman are having hard time hitting while moving which means no reason for other classes to stay still.
While dam good reason we have try stay calm and still (which of cource allows enemy to close in on us)
So damed if you dont and damed if you do move.
> /skeleton/ master "elite" ranged combat profession (carbineer, rifleman, pistoleer), one master profession
> master hybrid combat profession (commando, bountyhunter), two or three master professions
..are rather flawed.
In one on one fights the "hybrid" combat professions are superior. It is two master combat professions vs one master combat profession.
The "elite" (actually specialization self-gimped) ranged combat professions are well suited to engage at one distance, but are severely flawed at other distances.
This is especially bad for Riflemen, when they get forced into close combat, turning them from combatant to, well, victims, which is not so well, for them.
But when the "elite" ranged combat professions add Master Marksman, and engage in medium scale (or bigger) PvP, like town raids, the whole situation looks better for us. Actually good.
Master Marksman allows the "elite" ranged combat class to fight back at all distances (and also adds some extra accuracy), any they still will excel at their chosen range. And medium scale PvP offers plenty of targets to chose from, to pick a suitable victim.
For Riflemen a well suiting add on would be Novice Pistoleer. Now you can use some good close combat weapons (DX2), get rid of the x2.5 damage multiplier, and still blast of heads at long distance.
jedideaton wrote:
I have master sniping accuracy and I hit from just about wherever I shoot with my t21.
Bullsht.
I have master sniping accuracy and miss a LOT in PvP. The recent logs people posted in Aldeon's thread also demonstrate this.
Even if you're headshotting with Muon gold, you hit for 200 and lose 40 mind, you shoot again for 200 and lost 40 mind. You miss and lose 40 mind. You get a bad roll and hit for 50 and lose 40 mind.
Meanwhile the BH is using Eyeshot and it's 250, 300, 200, 300 from his pistol that has AP 1 and goes straight through your worthless composite helmet.
You are correct, eye shot is deadly, as it should be. Your best hope against a BH would be to kill him first and fast. My only prob with eyeshot is that is uses action pool instead of mind. This has been brought up by many people many times so no need to bring it up here again. But let me tell you this, i've been called a cheater and exploiter many times by Expert BH's saying there is no possible way I should be able to do what I do, and believe me I don't cheat or use exploits. BH's hit for max about 300 or so, where as I can max for 800+. I guess its all a gamble, and thats the fun of it.
And if you take a Nuon gold, you will really notice a huge difference in HAM cost and Mind regen. Its really amazing, you can basically use any specials you want and really not be pentalized.....maybe thats the cheat i use /shrug.
When I was a novice I had all my HAM into Health Action Mind, more into Health and Action. I figured out later lowering my H and A and maxing my mind focus and willpower, it became much easier to use specials. I would suggest this to all of you that have not done it already.
-Awkward
I'm a master rifleman and I'm pretty good in PvP, though we still have some huge flaws...
Basically here are my thoughts (I think most will agree):
We shoot pretty fast. Our accuracy does suck, I tend to miss at least 25% of my shots. I've resorted to using a pet to annoy the target long enough to buy some time. With the T21s nerfed mind attacks are become futile since the damage we're doing is garbage... I've been using mostly strafe2 unless the target has a crazy small mind. Thanks to our misses we can't PvP for as long. I maxed out my will power and focus and have 1000 mind and I'm only good for one kill - then I run somewhere and hide while I regenerate.
I did do very well in a group PvP setting. I joined 4 other guys and they would draw the fire, so I'd sit in the back and use specials (only when needed) to match the kind of damage they were doing. It worked very well and I could switch to normal fire without worrying to regen if my mind got low.
After a while we had 20 overts chasing us away and strafe2 worked wonders getting a bunch of them off our back while we ran like crazy for shelter...
-- A6
Tetta wrote:
And if you take a Nuon gold, you will really notice a huge difference in HAM cost and Mind regen. Its really amazing, you can basically use any specials you want and really not be pentalized.....maybe thats the cheat i use /shrug.
Yeah. The big difference you'll notice is when you spend 5 minutes on your butt witha tinymind pooland a focus and willpower rating of -350.
You won't even be beating a newbie with a CDEF when you're like that. Maybe your idea of PvP is to kill one person and then run into your house to hide for ten minutes, but that's not my idea of PvP.
Once the spice downer comes, i usually go suicide or run off and hide. The downer is short, and if you eat food once the downer is done your stats are returned to full. If i take a spice, I gurantee you I wont only kill 1 guy, Ive taken down 7 guys at once...at same time in about 30 seconds. All mind damage so they arent going to get up and heal themselves, this costing my about half of my mind pool. With a nuon thats about 800 mind, but it comes back so fast, and if you do get attacked you can own them again. My biggest enemy is when someone uses a tef, for instance a melee. They walk right next to you, and you know what they are going to do, its not like they are sneaky, but do you want to sit thereor run from them? I've got better things to do then run from some novice swordsman till he gives up. I do usually hunt with a parnter, he has a KD so if anyone does TEF me he can knock em out and give me a chance to get soem distance on them. It hepls alot. But I have gone in solo many times, and I am almost better that way, as long as it isnt 10v1, but a 1v1 10 times I would win every time.
If you hate rifleman, then drop the skills. Im betting that you guys aren't master and are disaapointed, but really, once you get it, you will enjoy Rifleman much more.
-Awkward
I've been pondering to get a good DLT20a again, too. But it offers no new and real range advantage.
Yesterday I shopped me some Muon Gold, too. +500 mind/focus/willpower, ~lasts 10 minutes. Looks like a good pvp/rifleman drug.
I think, and others posted in other threads as well, that the E11 Rifle is actually pretty solid: moderate speed, moderate damage, armor piercing "medium", relative low HAM costs.
The Spraystick offers an ideal range of 30 metres, but I am not touching it, since I have carbines for that range.
With few people wearing armor (especially no helmets
), and one-shot-kills and mind-damage being the way to pvp, I am certain that rifleing will keep having their success in PvP.
I really don't miss that much at all. I do have about +15 rifle accuracy in skill mods and many other rifleman skill mods so perhaps I am better than the average bear. My accuracy at 45m seems to be about the same as 60m. When I shoot I do try to time my shots so I am standing still when my fire goes off. And once you guys hit master, you will be shooting incredibly fast, if you doubt me just get it and see.
As to soloing as a rifleman, I really used my pets to help me level. But if you wanted you could hunt some animals, stack Mindshot 1 and 2, use warning shot and threaten shot. Works pretty good. Warning shot is your friend, in PVP if they send a pet at you its your best bet at living. I like to bleed the pets then toss on a warning, and watch it die.
Also at master we get a rifle accuracy while moving 10 which helps alot IMO.
-Awkward, Master Sharpshooter