Rifleman Archive
Thread: Rangers, Stealth, and Sniping
Ackehece wrote:
already brought up... many issues as well related to it
1) usage?
2) snare on top of the prone and rifle encumbrance?
3) what are the rules about how conceal breaks under the new unified system?
4) actions permitted under the new rules of stealth?
5) conceal shot, it violates one of the rules - does it get expanded to include snipershot?
Improved that last one for ya
Figured you'd be on the ball but still might as well have a discussion out in the open where we can all get flamed instead of a handfull of you behind the closed doors. Frankly our movement rate right now sounds like the 'sneaky mode' they're tacking on ranger movement. Only difference is our posture as well as how easily it breaks I'll bet. If not then it should be made to be somewhat relative as an overall speed rather than -movement percentages tacked on and on and on when you hold a gun, change positions, and move while hiding.
Will other characters be able to use some of the ranger skills? We used to be able to get camo'd by rangers, then it went to kits anyone can use, now it seems like they might actually be something useful. Would be great to see a ranger make me even less likely to be spotted when I go prone and all that, but not a big deal if it doesn't work out that way.
Ackehece wrote:
already brought up... many issues as well related to it
1) usage?
2) snare on top of the prone and rifle encumbrance?
3) what are the rules about how conceal breaks under the new unified system?
4) actions permitted under the new rules of stealth?
5) conceal shot, it violates one of the rules - does it remain ?
5) they seid somewere else that that rule douse not include riflemans snipershot
CuchulainnDarklight wrote:
Just wanted to say a big thank you to riflemen for testing part of the invisibility rule set, invented by the ranger community and being finally ordered for our revamp! You want to be really sneaky go Ranger/Rifleman. Plus, we always could see you (Jedis, and CSRs too), it was called tracking!
Message Edited by Ackehece on 09-18-2005 08:44 AM
Ackehece wrote:
CuchulainnDarklight wrote:
Just wanted to say a big thank you to riflemen for testing part of the invisibility rule set, invented by the ranger community and being finally ordered for our revamp! You want to be really sneaky go Ranger/Rifleman. Plus, we always could see you (Jedis, and CSRs too), it was called tracking!
Actually the invisible rifleman idea has been around sincebeta - it was as much or more a riflemanideathen it was a ranger idea. We had conceal shot which was a invisibility to pve since launch and many many rifleman called for the true invisibility since then. BUT I would trade cover in a sec for Strafe Shot 2 back. We have legitimate concerns here. Our skill was already weak compared to the the other version floating around and now we get it demoted even further? I hope not - if anything I hope they enhance our version while they bring all the stealths into line with a standard set of rules.
Message Edited by Ackehece on 09-18-2005 08:44 AM
Rifleman stealth is the STRONGEST! It is the only one you can attack from without losing your stealth.
CuchulainnDarklight wrote:
Ackehece wrote:
CuchulainnDarklight wrote:
Just wanted to say a big thank you to riflemen for testing part of the invisibility rule set, invented by the ranger community and being finally ordered for our revamp! You want to be really sneaky go Ranger/Rifleman. Plus, we always could see you (Jedis, and CSRs too), it was called tracking!
Actually the invisible rifleman idea has been around sincebeta - it was as much or more a riflemanideathen it was a ranger idea. We had conceal shot which was a invisibility to pve since launch and many many rifleman called for the true invisibility since then. BUT I would trade cover in a sec for Strafe Shot 2 back. We have legitimate concerns here. Our skill was already weak compared to the the other version floating around and now we get it demoted even further? I hope not - if anything I hope they enhance our version while they bring all the stealths into line with a standard set of rules.
Message Edited by Ackehece on 09-18-200508:44 AM
Rifleman stealth is the STRONGEST! It is the only one you can attack from without losing your stealth.
Both ranger and jedi will now be able to move into range of other players without losing stealth, rifleman need to stay 21+m away. Ranger and Jedi Stealth will allow you to be standing up and walk or run - with a snare effect, Rifleman need to be on their bellies, have a built in snare in packing our weapon and also move like turtles because we crawl on the ground. If they add a snare effect as well rifleman will be lucky to move .5m a sec. Conceal shot is not concealed - you can see where it comes from (though some rifles minimize the effect). The new rules for stealth preclude the usage of an attack while under stealth so what is going to happen to conceal shot? As I read it they said it currently (in the current game ) is an exception but they suggest that that all stealths will follow the rules and thus it may go away.
Ackehece wrote:
CuchulainnDarklight wrote:
Ackehece wrote:
CuchulainnDarklight wrote:
Just wanted to say a big thank you to riflemen for testing part of the invisibility rule set, invented by the ranger community and being finally ordered for our revamp! You want to be really sneaky go Ranger/Rifleman. Plus, we always could see you (Jedis, and CSRs too), it was called tracking!
Actually the invisible rifleman idea has been around sincebeta - it was as much or more a riflemanideathen it was a ranger idea. We had conceal shot which was a invisibility to pve since launch and many many rifleman called for the true invisibility since then. BUT I would trade cover in a sec for Strafe Shot 2 back. We have legitimate concerns here. Our skill was already weak compared to the the other version floating around and now we get it demoted even further? I hope not - if anything I hope they enhance our version while they bring all the stealths into line with a standard set of rules.
Message Edited by Ackehece on 09-18-200508:44 AM
Rifleman stealth is the STRONGEST! It is the only one you can attack from without losing your stealth.
Both ranger and jedi will now be able to move into range of other players without losing stealth, rifleman need to stay 21+m away. Ranger and Jedi Stealth will allow you to be standing up and walk or run - with a snare effect, Rifleman need to be on their bellies, have a built in snare in packing our weapon and also move like turtles because we crawl on the ground. If they add a snare effect as well rifleman will be lucky to move .5m a sec. Conceal shot is not concealed - you can see where it comes from (though some rifles minimize the effect). The new rules for stealth preclude the usage of an attack while under stealth so what is going to happen to conceal shot? As I read it they said it currently (in the current game ) is an exception but they suggest that that all stealths will follow the rules and thus it may go away.
Pick up Ranger with your Rifleman you will be able to crawl faster then. They dont suggest conceal shot will go away they say it is the exception to the rules. Ranger stealth will be better because Rangers are the camouflage experts. So what if a ranger gets up close to someone, he has no damage dealing capabilty, whats he going to do, wave?
Ackehece wrote:
CuchulainnDarklight wrote:
Just wanted to say a big thank you to riflemen for testing part of the invisibility rule set, invented by the ranger community and being finally ordered for our revamp! You want to be really sneaky go Ranger/Rifleman. Plus, we always could see you (Jedis, and CSRs too), it was called tracking!
Actually the invisible rifleman idea has been around sincebeta - it was as much or more a riflemanideathen it was a ranger idea. We had conceal shot which was a invisibility to pve since launch and many many rifleman called for the true invisibility since then. BUT I would trade cover in a sec for Strafe Shot 2 back. We have legitimate concerns here. Our skill was already weak compared to the the other version floating around and now we get it demoted even further? I hope not - if anything I hope they enhance our version while they bring all the stealths into line with a standard set of rules.
Message Edited by Ackehece on 09-18-2005 08:44 AM
How about we go the other way? The only reason I semi supported rifleman's stealth on the rifleman forums was because the Devs gutted us offensively.
Stealth was something that I though was alwas more rangeresque anyway, in keeping with a "light infantry" role. It looks like Rangers will be given that role now. Can we simply dump the sealth stuff on the rangers and go back to our roots, that of a damage dealer.
Commando's are nukers, 30 seconds of absolute hell on earth and there are gone.
Rifleman should be DPS machines. That is what we do. We are crowd control, we aren't postition or state control. I would have a 5 in damage rating that shined than a 5:3:1 that we have now.
In order to do this, several things need to happen.
1. Certed weapons need to significantly outshine there non certed counterparts. non certed weapons were put in as a band aid on the CL system.
2. Certed weapons need to have unique roles. Spaysticks were used even by masters as a low ham high accuracy, low damage weapon. there counterpart, Beserker rifles, are the same, it had higher damage, but required looted components.
3. get rid of riflemans, cover, snare, and conceal shot.
4. Rifleman need a headshot, med bleed, and a delay shot as the main attacks. those are 3 trees, resistance to posture change and faster crawl speed is the 4th (techniques of a rifleman)
5. The T21. It's iconic, and it never gets old. Han Solo used one in the "Joiner King" after the Vong war. just like the DL-44, It still gets the job done. Its an automatic rifle, similer to the present day M-249 SAW. have it classified as an automatic weapon, so it can used all carbineers specials, but make it slower, but pack a heavy punch. To similate thermal control of a Med machine gun, it needs a high Ham, but gives a high bonus to action regen while prone +150 or something. This should break any current action regen cap.....
you use a T21 in short burst, then let it cool. a special at master rifleman ashould be "switch barrel" this has a zip bar, and can recharge your action bar out of your mind. Long (3 min) cooldown timer. can only be done while prone or kneeling.