Rifleman Archive
Thread: Devs To Rifleman: Wipe Them Out, All Of Them (the 3 seconds minimum fire rule = death of a class)
Riflemen:
Problem #1:
Development Hates Riflemen.
Solution #1:
We don’t hate you.
I am a master Rifleman.I PVP ALOT. I know the class.
You dont hate us, but then at the minimum, you want to destroy us. Riflemen/pikemen would have a 3 second minimum speed. This WOULD KILL THE CLASS, PERIOD! 3 seconds to fire, 2.5x melee mod... good lord man.How are u supposed to killanything before itmows u down?
Whats the point of taking cover in PVP if ur target can close the range to u in a few seconds because u can only shoot so quickly and then u cant even target them because they are to close. It makes no sense.
8 attacks combo strings would be worthless to a rifleman because they use mind pool. It would take 24 seconds and way to much UNHEALABLE mind pool to use any of those combos... Heck in PVP using specials is pretty much writing the lettering on ur coffin. The only specials i ever use are Strafe Shot 2 (if there is only or 2 people to kill) and a CDEF fired sniping shot. Other than that i must rely on shear damage to kill someone.
The idea of giving BHs two mind attacks isunfathomable to me. As i said i PVP alot and 95% of my deaths are eye shot related. In a battle where u have mutiple bounty hunters spamming eyeshot, its nearly impossible to survive. Sure i could Spam head shots or SS2s at them, but then id be lowering my mind pool and thus hastening my death.
Im still in disbelief at the proposal of a 3 second timer for rifle... It would be impossible for use to kill people then. So your going to salt the wound by giving some meleeatanking feature and we now have a delay to fire on him? I really dont like to kite (no acc while moving), but i dont see any alternatives. I can see myself shooting some BH guy and waiting 3 secs to pull off a sniping shot and seeing a doctor run up and med the guy... putting me back at square one and taking more Eye shots.
a 3 second time is like the voice of God booming from the heavens and sayingof rifleman "Wipethem out, all of them."
Seriously before & after u destroy rifleman, please do a statical look at the number of people with novice rifleman boxandwatch that number drop by 90%.
DarthWicket
"eye shot at .5 a seconds is the straw that breaks the camels back"
If eyeshot were to remain in the game, then it needs to be moved over to riflemen where it belongs, or have it only usable with a BH Rifle, not pistol. Mind damage is the relm of riflemen only, hence the melee disadvantage. If BH shared that disadvantage while doing mind damage, hence using a rifle to do so, then this would make a lot of sense.
Slow speed is just fine, it seperates out the different classes. However DPS needs to be such that it is either the same or even greater for slower speed weapons. Have a 3 sec delay between doing things like throwing traps, using stims or other activities that get cued in, is a huge disadvantage. The DPS should be higher for slower fireing weapons because of this. At the very least, the DPS should remain the same accross the board. If this means in PvP that a rifleman can one shot someone, well guess one, snipers pretty much one shot people as it were, so that would be realistic. Course if there is more than one opponent in PvP, you have a riflemen sitting helpless for at least 3 seconds and they are gone. Seems balanced to me. And if you miss, well it is all over two.
I don't think they hate us, I do aggree that every high level ranged attacker shouldn't fire once a second. Diversity is good, but only if it is done correctly.
The attack speed proposal would be acceptable if and ONLY IF they fixed the entire range system. Most weapons can hit from 60m. Yes they are less acurate but pistoleers also get bonuses to attacking while on the move. Please fix the ranged combat. Pistols should have a max range of 35-40m, carbines should have a max range of 50-55m, and rifles should have a maximum range of 70-75m. I can swallow longer firing times if I can be sure I can get two ranged shots in before the pistoleer charges me and starts lighting me up. Also mind damage should ONLY be done by rifles. BH's should still earn eye shot if they are using a rifle.
Unfortunately, 3 seconds is WAY to freakin high. 1.5 or 2 seconds could MAYBE be ok if they upped our damage at the same time. It is RIDICULOUS to make it a 3 second cap. I fire that already and I'm only half way up the rifleman tree....so basically I get NO bonus (in a sense) for the next two levels and for master. I'm getting really sick of this proffesion, I dont' know why I've stuck with it so long, but I refuse to move to another one. I REALLY hope the devs read this. Whoever our CSR is, I hope he forwards this to them.
Just my 2 cents.
I have to agree with Tiger
I think it could work if and only if
1. 2,5 Dam modifer was removed.
2. Ranges where set correctly i.e. pistol 30, carbine 45, rifle 65 etc..
I actually like the proposal, dont forget that they said, even thouhg theywould make it 3.0 secs, they would increase our damage, so potetional we might only need 2 shots to kill something off.
I like it, it makes the profession what it should be!!!
I do see how they can make this 3 second thing work, but if they don't i'm dropping this class
1. implement the 3 sec cap
2. make our shots consistant 1 shot kills P-E-R-I-O-D
3. Nerf the pistoleer's range when using styles
then what do you know, you've got a useful class, a class that lives up to the name Sniper
"I actually like the proposal, dont forget that they said, even thouhg theywould make it 3.0 secs, they would increase our damage, so potetional we might only need 2 shots to kill something off."
Listen man..PLEASE SHOW ME WHERE IT SAID THEY WOULD UP OUR DAMAGE. I am so sick and tired of people who cant read it just helps our class get nerfed.
SHOW ME.
"Even though they increase us to 3.0 seconds. they would increase our damage". Show me where it says this you illiterate jackass.
I was going to be a master rifleman/master ranger, but now it appears MasterCH/Master Ranger will be more rewarding.
My reply somewhere in all those pages:
Riflemen:
Problem #1:
Development Hates Riflemen.
Solution #1:
We don’t hate you. No you don't understand us- Hence solutions 2,3 and 4.
Problem #2:
Take Cover is not particularly effective given it’s penalties. It immobilizes you (at lower levels) and doesn’t give adequate protection.
Solution #2:
I’m going to try to improve the protection values of take cover. I’d like to see these protection values scale from their current value to a much higher protection level at higher levels. Sure you lock yourself to crawling/prone, but I think it should give a much more significant level of protection.
This will also enhance the "anti-sniper" moves of riflemen. If cover is more useful, more players will use it. If more players use cover, the anti-cover moves become more useful.
What about the 2.5x melee damage multiplier and the fact Mob's friends are instantly spotting us when we attack.
Problem #3:
Rifleman accuracy is lacking against moving targets.
Solution #3:
Along with the take cover defensive bonuses, I think it’s appropriate to add a large(ish) attack bonus to go with take cover. This will further enhance the "purpose" of rifleman. I’ll also investigate the toHit bonuses for all rifleman skills.
Our accuracy doesn't compare esp. to pistols which are almost as good from 1m to 64m.Accuracy ranges should be:
Rifles good from 34 to 64, carbines from 20 to 50 and pistols from4 to 34.
Problem #4:
Rifleman damage output is too low given the delays involved.
Solution #4:
Once we add the speed cap, I will investigate improving damage output. The combo system I have proposed will nicely fit into the rifleman attack paradigm.
Is this the combo system of upto 8 moves that will take us 24 secondsto complete once,while in the same time pistols would have fired 48 shots (ie 6 combos).That's also assuming we can stringconsectutive hitstogethergiven thatin the 3 seconds between shots our target hasclosed from ideal range to pointblank. (Remember we're permanently taking cover/prone as per solutions #2 and #3, so unless we can crawl as fast as others run, they will always close on us).
Problem #5:
Rifles too difficult to craft (T21)
Solution #5:
I’ll raise this issue with the crafting designers and see if we can come to a reasonable solution for this problem.
No need, there will be no riflemen left to buy them.
There will be no one-shot kills.They already took that out on purpose when they added the 75% damage reduction to PvP. Why would they bring it back? Do you have any idea the howling whine that would rise up from EVERY other player in the game if we were the only group doing one-shot kills? Good grief, can't you just picture the posts?
NERF THE RIFLEMAN!!! "I gotkilled in ONE SHOTby a rifle-gimp and his gay ass T21 yeaterday, they need to be nerfed OMFG KTHXBYE!!!11!!!"
The only role we really kicked ass in up till now was as the heavy machine gunner in the squad. The 3 second cap, with no additional damage increase ( we'll "investigate" a damage increase at some unknown time in the future, after we slap you in the face with the 3 sec cap......what a horrible joke ) effectively rips this away to be replaced with.........what? A PvE special ( Cover )that I never used,or for that matter,needed anyway???
I agree that Cover needs to give more protection, but how about making it do more too. I say while in cover/sneak we should be stealth/off radar/invis.
It would really define our class. Since u have to crawl u wont have the prob of other mmos with ppl runin around invis owning, set it up so that you cant be within 64m of another player b4 u use invise/cover. once u fire ur uncloaked.
If ur gonna slow us down at LEAST beef us up!
No matter what we are gonna get owned up close, so give us some tools for keeping people at a distance, how about a shot that pushes the attacker back to 60m, or the cloak/sneak so we at LEAST get the element of surprise
with a 3sec delay + horrible accuracy we other tactics
Yes so they're gonna up our damage by 6x even though they just nerfed our gun to laser rifles with AP3 how long ago? Nobody is that hypocriticaly that quickly...although the commando comes to mind. But I digress any complalints that we make will just put under the rug because we all think they "hate" us when in fact they are ignorant of us and therefore treat us as children.
The sad thing is they think they just fixed eyeshot
Unless they make it do less then half the damage it does now or make pistolspea shootersthey just empowered it. Instead of being hit once a second with the damage it does now your gonna be hit twice a second for slightly less damage and not being blinded. Yippee it is still doing more damage I'm still killing myself (grant it less often thanks to the cap) and I can't move since the only way I can shoot someone is if I"m immobile or crawling in a few levels. I haven't even hit master yet thanks to a variety of reasons (too many papers to write in college thanks alot procrastination) and now I doubt I ever will. I'm not going to give up the class, but by the time I get to within eyesight of the tunnel end I"m gonna be flying around in my Miy'Til fighter and hardly ever doing ground combat again. At least if they don't screw that up in which case I"m gone like a smuggler near CorSec.
The thing is they cant up the damage on the weapons more... what they going to do return the t21 back to the pre-patch number? Then where back to one shotting people...
The whole problem is that everyone is doing to much damage to fast. I wont deny that i can jack people with ease as a rifleman, buti still get hurtBAD by eye shotting bountyhunters.
The idea of 2x the damage output of pistol people whileslowing of every other class is ludicris. Even if u change the damage rates on rifles and carbinespistol peoplestill win out becauseon average they will land more shots which meanswhen the impliment the combo systems,pistoleers willbe able to run awholecombo stackingdamage outputs in by the time i can get off 2 regular shots.
Right now as a master rifleman i can takeon anyone,bounty hunter ect. in one on one andwin if its straight out damage fight.... Im not trying to hide that, but 3 seconds is a long time in PVPwhen doctors and medicscan healalmost as fast as u damage people.
I really dont know what to think... the wholecurrent systemisout of whack, but the proposed changes wouldonly make things worse.
The thing thatannoys me the mostis that in pvp u NEVER go prone as a rifleman, itsinsta death, andto suggest that to make up for3second delay by giving us accuaracy in the takecover positionis coming from someone who maybe can code a game, but definiately has neverplayed the gamehe/she works on.... heckconcealed shotbrings the NPCs buddieswarping after u... theydidnt even address that.
Igive up...