Rifleman Archive
Thread: Ranged/Placed Shots vs. Adv Critical/Imp Head Shots Additional Test Results
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Uthyr
Sat Aug 20, 2005 2:44 pm
#1
I decided to go run my own field trials to see if I could reproduce the findings that a couple of different people have posted here recently (including this
one) showing that alternating Ranged/Placed Shots fires more damage over time than alternating Advanced Critical/Improved Body Shots. Here is the weapon I used (unsliced, but with a 33.65% speed PUP attached):
one) showing that alternating Ranged/Placed Shots fires more damage over time than alternating Advanced Critical/Improved Body Shots. Here is the weapon I used (unsliced, but with a 33.65% speed PUP attached):
Trandoshan Hunter's Rifle, Mark 1-B
Damage Type: Energy
Damage: 487-1151
Attack Speed: 1.67
My Modified Speed: 1.00
Accuracy Bonus: -11 (due to penalty for using speed PUP)
The mobs I attacked were all level 81 dune banthas. They were all labelled "Dune Bantha" (i.e., nobantha matriarchs, etc). I killed 4 of them alternating Ranged/Placed Shots, and 4 more alternating Advanced Critical/Improved Head Shots, for a total of 108 shots fired. The damage number I recorded was the damage as the energy bolt left the rifle, not the number after armor reductions. e.g., if the combat spam read "Uthyr hits a dune bantha for600 points of energy damage. The dune bantha's armor absorbed 400 of a possible 1000 points of damage," then I recorded 1000 as the damage. I am using the term "aDPS" below to indicate the actual damage per second, as determined by summing the total damage fired at a bantha until it was dead and dividing by the total number of seconds (as shown in the combat spam with time stamp enabled).It is not the same as the meaningless DPS stat on the weapon properties window.
Here are the results:
Alternating Ranged/Placed Shots:
Total number of shots fired: 65 (includes 3 misses, no critical strikes)
Average damage per shot fired:857 (including misses)
Average time to fire 1 shot: 1.23 seconds
aDPS: 696
Alternating Advanced Critical Shot/Improved Head Shots:
Total number of shots fired: 43 (inlcudes 3 misses and2 critical strikes)
Average damage per shot: 1403 (including misses and criticals)
Average time to fire 1 shot: 1.74 seconds
aDPS: 805
Although my sample sizes (n=8 or n=108 depending on whether you consider the sample size unit to be the number of creatures, or the number of shots fired) were probably too small to be statistically significant, I did fire enough shots to convince myself that the latter scheme deals a lot more damage over time than the former. As for why my results differ from what was reported by the other people, I can think of two factors that might be responsible: (1) the type of mob I was attacking, or (2) my modified weapon speed, due to my use of a speed PUP. I consider #2 to be more likely, but can't say for sure. It is possible that the first scheme is more effective for higher weapon speeds, but when the weapon speed approaches the effective weapon firing rate cap (I don't think rifles can fire faster than 1 second, but correct me if I am wrong), then it becomes more effective to use higher-level specials. If anybody feels that it has more to do with the mob type, or something to do with my methods, I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts.
There is a caveat in this discussion though... When I was using the low-SAC specials, my action always stayed pretty close to 100% and I was never in any danger of running out. When I was using the higher-SAC specials, my action got down to around 50%, and if I have been fighting tougher mobs than banthas, I would have run out. Once the action pool is drained, your aDPS effectively drops to zero, whereas it would remain relatively constant when firing the low-SAC specials. Therefore, the first scheme might actually deal more DPS over the course of a protracted battle against a boss/elite mob, whereas the second scheme might be more effective against lower-level mobs, unless you're using a SAC PUP (in which case the above results might not even hold true any longer because the modified weapon speed would be much higher).
I am trying to decide now whether it would be more effective to use a SAC PUP or a speed PUP, based on these findings. Any opinions?
Message Edited by Uthyr on 08-31-2005 11:44 PM
Nerdnovice
Sat Aug 20, 2005 3:10 pm
#2
I've done some testing too and come to the same conclusion as you, but it's not a simple question.
I have 1.3 modified speed and adrenalboost on top and I always run out of actionpoints when I hunt krayts, doesnt matter if I use ranged/placed.
The time difference between SAC pups(headshot/legshot) and dmg ones(ranged/placed) on a 35k giant krayt is around 20% faster with SAC.
Uthyr
Sat Aug 20, 2005 4:23 pm
#3
As a follow-up, I did another trial on the same level dune banthas just now, this time removing my speed PUP and replacing it with a -27.68% SAC, -13 Accuracy SAC.
Here are the results (this time for a total of 5 banthas, so the total number of shots will not be comparable with the earlier two trials):
Alternating Advanced Critical Shot/Improved Head Shots:
Total number of shots fired: 53 (includes 4 critical strikes, no misses)
Average damage per shot: 1707 (including criticals)
Average time to fire 1 shot: 2.34 seconds
aDPS: 730
So, my high modified weapon speed in the earlier trials apparently didn't have anything to do with my results after all. My aDPS is still higher alternating the higher-level specials than alternating Ranged/Placed Shots. I am at a loss to explain why the other people got better results with the low-SAC specials, unless it has something to do with the kind of mobs they were hunting or something else about their own player stats. For myself, I do not plan to alternate those low-level specials any longer. It's back to the heavy hitters for me, probably with a SAC PUP so I can sustain it.
Message Edited by Uthyr on 08-20-2005 07:30 PM
Uthyr
Sat Aug 20, 2005 4:26 pm
#4
Nerdnovice wrote:
I've done some testing too and come to the same conclusion as you, but it's not a simple question.
I have 1.3 modified speed and adrenalboost on top and I always run out of actionpoints when I hunt krayts, doesnt matter if I use ranged/placed.
The time difference between SAC pups(headshot/legshot) and dmg ones(ranged/placed) on a 35k giant krayt is around 20% faster with SAC.
Very interesting, Nerdnovice. I'm glad somebody can corroborate my results. So which PUP type do you find lets you do more overall damage over time to the krayts--the ones that let you keep your action higher to keep you fighting longer, or the ones that let you do more damage per shot?
Nerdnovice
Sat Aug 20, 2005 5:21 pm
#5
If I was shooting a mob with say 6-7k ham I guess that a dmg pup would yield the highest dps but after that I'm totally out. Adrenal boost is like having a spd pup. With a SAC pup equipped and using specials on a krayt I'm out about after 18k HAM after that I have to rest ( while running) or shoot some ranged placed at slow speed.
One good thing with SAC pup is that if your out action andcrap hits the fan i.e warping dragons or something like that you don't have to wait so long before you can fire a snare or knockdown and when a giant is munching on your poor recon armor for about 1000 dmg you don't have much time before your toast.
I also think adrenal boost complicate things what's good for me isn't necessarily good for someone not speed buffed.
My rifle is:
83 sac
470-1120 ish
2.4 speed
12% speed sliced.
Not the best gun there is but with it I have killed a giant krayt in 1 min 50 sek.
I killed a 33600 HAM juvie today in 1 min 17 sek.
I guess with a rifle with 82 sac and higer min/max dmg I would go a bit faster.
This is with brandy,pixie andcrispic.
/serus
Nerdnovice
Sat Aug 20, 2005 5:27 pm
#6
Btw I'm using a 3 second sit/stand macro to regain action fast between fights, 3 sec is a bit short but it gives me a third or so worth of green bar.
Ackehece
Sat Aug 20, 2005 6:09 pm
#7
*edit for more thought*
Message Edited by Ackehece on 08-20-2005 07:11 PM
Uthyr
Sat Aug 20, 2005 6:30 pm
#8
You've pretty much just summed up my developing opinions about this stuff. Yeah, a speed or damage PUP would work great against a low-HAM target, because you can kill it before you run out of action... but against that kind of mob, you don't need a PUP because you can kill it easily enough without any PUP at all, with a decent rifle. Where the PUP becomes necessary is for high-HAM and/or high-combat-levelmobs. It seems to me that a speed PUP, or an adrenal boost, or maybe even a speed slice for that matter, is not going to be very useful when you're alternating high-level specials, because all it will do is make your action run out that much faster. A SAC PUP, along with blob candy, is what I have been using ever since the CU went live, and it works. I can alternate high-SAC specials constantly for very long durations without coming close to running out of action, and as long as you are constantly firing high-level specials, you are doing heavy damage. I'm about to go do some testing with damage PUPs, but my gut feeling is that I am still going to run out of action when using them (even though they slow you down a bit), and therefore even though they increase your damage per shot, you can't do as many shots when you have one attached, so your overall damage over time will be less.
Nerdnovice wrote:
If I was shooting a mob with say 6-7k ham I guess that a dmg pup would yield the highest dps but after that I'm totally out. Adrenal boost is like having a spd pup. With a SAC pup equipped and using specials on a krayt I'm out about after 18k HAM after that I have to rest ( while running) or shoot some ranged placed at slow speed.
One good thing with SAC pup is that if your out action andcrap hits the fan i.e warping dragons or something like that you don't have to wait so long before you can fire a snare or knockdown and when a giant is munching on your poor recon armor for about 1000 dmg you don't have much time before your toast.
I also think adrenal boost complicate things what's good for me isn't necessarily good for someone not speed buffed.
My rifle is:
83 sac
470-1120 ish
2.4 speed
12% speed sliced.
Not the best gun there is but with it I have killed a giant krayt in 1 min 50 sek.
I killed a 33600 HAM juvie today in 1 min 17 sek.
I guess with a rifle with 82 sac and higer min/max dmg I would go a bit faster.
This is with brandy,pixie andcrispic.
/serus
Maccajnr
Sun Aug 21, 2005 3:52 am
#9
Nice testing.
Do you guys ADK your rifle? I'd also like to pup my riffle with a low Sac pup, because my action drains way too fast on Krayts, even with a 83 sac riffle and action regen food. Butthe pup isdamaging my riffle way too fast.
QuantumArtist
Sun Aug 21, 2005 4:54 am
#10
I have a "Covert Retaliation" from Necrosis. I gave it a full speed slice, and threw on an Anti Decay Kit. I use a 34% speed powerup on top of that... Add to that, the fact that I have a collective 140 total speed with my template/clothes and you can safely say I firepretty fast!
I have a modified speed of .86 with my rifle and can tell you that you can definetly see a speed decrease when my powerup has run out. So, yes, speed does in fact make your cycle times go MUCH faster. This is very handy for anyone with an important role, like smugglers that may need to concuss multiple targets for example. Concussion shot has a very slow recycle time, butsignificant speed modifiers can shorten this timegreatly.The faster your speed, the sooner each ability is available to reuse.
I am a HUGE fan of speed. I'll take it over damage damage any day, though damage is always a bonus!
The trick to speed is timing and interestingly enough, patience. I'll leave yall to figure out what I mean.
Message Edited by QuantumArtist on 08-21-2005 04:58 AM
QuantumArtist
Sun Aug 21, 2005 5:01 am
#11
Nerdnovice wrote:
Btw I'm using a 3 second sit/stand macro to regain action fast between fights, 3 sec is a bit short but it gives me a third or so worth of green bar.
I find sitting between combat an absolute must for any speed hound! As soon as you finish combat, sit down and POOF! You're up and ready to fight in very short order! Especially if you have action regen foods.
Uthyr
Sun Aug 21, 2005 7:23 am
#12
QuantumArtist wrote:
I find sitting between combat an absolute must for any speed hound! As soon as you finish combat, sit down and POOF! You're up and ready to fight in very short order! Especially if you have action regen foods.
Yeah, I love watching the action pool rocket up to 100% when sitting for just a few seconds. 
Unfortunately though, that doesn't do you any good when you're being attacked by several mobs simultatneously (sometimes I take on a whole lair at once just for fun!),or if you're running through the hunting trail on Kaskyyyk kiting 15 mobs, or if you're fighting a high-HAM mob. Yes, you could simplyinterperse lower-HAM specials or carefully time your rate of refire so that your action never fully drains, but with a SAC PUP and some blob candy, you don't have to worry about that--just spam away and hit them hard!
Unfortunately though, that doesn't do you any good when you're being attacked by several mobs simultatneously (sometimes I take on a whole lair at once just for fun!),or if you're running through the hunting trail on Kaskyyyk kiting 15 mobs, or if you're fighting a high-HAM mob. Yes, you could simplyinterperse lower-HAM specials or carefully time your rate of refire so that your action never fully drains, but with a SAC PUP and some blob candy, you don't have to worry about that--just spam away and hit them hard!
Uthyr
Sun Aug 21, 2005 7:33 am
#13
Maccajnr wrote:
Do you guys ADK your rifle? I'd also like to pup my riffle with a low Sac pup, because my action drains way too fast on Krayts, even with a 83 sac riffle and action regen food. Butthe pup isdamaging my riffle way too fast.
My approach to using ADK's and PUP is as follows... I actually own a few ADK's, and two of them are sitting unused in my inventory right now awaiting placement on the ideal rifles. I don't worry about using up an un-PUP'd rifle's conditionwith PUPs. They still last a pretty long time (long enough for me to do all the testing and comparing that I need). I just use them up until they are just about to 25% condition (at which point they would break), and then decide at that point whether the rifle is ADK-worthy. If it is, I slap on an ADK and the rifle returns to 100% condition. If it isn't, then I've probably found a better rifle by then, so it's no big loss and I'll hang it on my wall for display (or sell it to somebody else who can put their own ADK on it).If I ADK something when it reaches 25% and then later find a better rifle, that's no big deal anyway, because I will have gotten a lot more use out of the rifle than if I had never attached the ADK, so if I destroy the rifle to recover the ADK at that point (or trade it to somebody for another ADK plus some cash), I figure I got my money's worth out of it.
Of course, it helps if you actually have the money (or longevity playing the game) to acquire these ADK's in the first place.
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