Rifleman Archive
Thread: Typical Rifleman PvP Fight
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I got the jump on him and was in a prone and covered state (which is why he managed to miss a few times).
I'm a 4424 rifleman, I guarentee I have twice as much rifleman XP as this guy had BH XP. This also means I have max rifle speed and max rifle accuracy without being a master.
I was using my DLT20a (5.3 speed, 108-173 damage, 25 mind HAM) because I can spam HS3 without killing myself. If I had used my T21, I would have been losing 166 mind per shot rather than 61 (I have 600 focus, max for human).
I got the jump on him. I opened with mind bleed, he opened with some BH bleed.
During the fight I did:
(123 bleed)+125+185+167+168 damage with 1 miss.
His eyeshots with some AR1 pistol (so my helmet did nothing):
(134 bleed)+160+200+158+210+229+237 with 3 misses!
If I hadn't been in a covered that I would have likely only gotten off 3 shots. I have 950 mind (I think his last shot that killed me was actually a latent after-death hit).
So, some BH with less skill XP investment than me shoots faster, does more damage per shot and worst of all, does not drain his mind pool to do it. I'm lucky he was only a low level BH and didn't have an LLC.
Yes, I could have used my T21 or Laser Rifle and shot him for more damage, but at -166 mind per shot, he would have just killed me sooner.
I could have opened up with another MS3 instead of a bleed, but looking at the numbers, it wouldn't have made any difference.
The best rifleman is a Bounty Hunter.
Dude you were using a .22 rifle against a Desert eagle .. that is what happened.
Use the Laser rifle... its ok on Mind and it does nice damage.
-Sazo
The laser rifle takes about 150 mind pool to fire HeadShot3.
What pool was he hitting?
Think, please.
You should not be using HS3. The damage increase form HS2 to HS3 is slight while the mind cost goes from 1.5x mind to 2.5x mind. And as aid above, you might not want to be using a helmet, but it is according to the encumb for mind it has.
Also, find a good slicer, You should always be using a sliced weapon in PvP. My current dtl20 is a 108-172 , 4.4s (speed slice) with a 30% speed power up (3.0 speed and a +11 to point blank range)
-Rorrimot (naritus)
Interesting.I grouped with Notac today.
I'm not sure about his template, but he "seemed" to be a pretty good player, and well equipped.
From what I recall, notac was in full composite when I saw him.
#1 thing you could use is a composite helmwith 50%+resist, cuts damage by quite a bit. You really should try one. You can pop it off after a fight to regen fast, and pop it back once full, no big deal really. This "armor sucks" philosophy..not sure where that's coming from. I take around 1/2 damage from eyeshots when I wear a helmet. It absorbs the bejezus out of incoming eyeshots.
He also seemed to be attacking faster, he probably had a higher attack speed due to higher pistol speed. You say you aren't a master rifleman..which means you're at +65 or +70 speed? He could be at +80 or cap'd if he picked up pistoleer, which makes he attacks quite a bit faster right off the bat. You'd really need to master to compete with that speed, generally speaking. Spend the points on mastery. Even if he was just BH4, he still spent far more skill points than you did, which is saying a lot. BH pistol 4 is a fast track to effective combat, takes way less time than mastery of carbine/pistol/rifle, yet you DO have to have mastery to compete with the tier 4 BH combat trees. Granted, it's odd that they get a fast track, and other professions have to grind it out to compete, but they may change that, who knows.
Scatters have similar stats toyour weapon,yet fire faster, they are a top tier weapon. I've seen powered up/sliced laser rifles that are at 600+ max damage. I'm betting you'd do well to get your hands on a better weapon. His weapon was probably a 175-220+ scatter with a 32% damage power up on top.
Sometimes you have to consider not opening with a bleed. What are you expecting, more than 20s worth of combat? Then why bother bleeding? Go for the kill shot when solo, unless you PLAN on moving and letting them bleed. I was incap'd by a rifle bleed today (the owner was already dead), had he chosen to back off and let me bleed, he'd have won with I think 1 tick. But no way combat is going to last solo, longer than 20s if I charge and they dont run. If your opponent starts to run, sure, pop a bleed, otherwise, dont bother in a short fight.
If you are a zabrak, equilibrium of course can save the day.
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That's just somegeneralinformation that mighthelp. However, I have no doubt balance issues are still rampant, and that rifles may need some work, most combat professions seem to. BHs dont seem to need much work in the combat department, unfortunately for non-BHs. They are fighting at full capacity.
I think if you had:
Mastery
Laser rifle (sliced dmg, powerup dmg)
Composite
no bleed opener
You'd have fared better.
Nice post Jaegen, I think the problem is Riflemen are sick of seeing "you do mind damage so live with your lameness pre master" from the Devs, only to find out a different class does it better. Even a character with maxed out combat skills (2 elite professions)will have trouble with someone who just has the BH pistol line, the bonuses to speed and accuracy in that line are insane.
The trouble with composite (I admit to not trying it after this latest patch, is it any better?) is that it hits our mind stats hard, which for most riflemen means less than 15 shots with a laser rifle, then 5 minutes at least of downtime.
This ismy problem with eye shot: it can be spammed at 60m using action to hit mind, stim up and repeat, we lose our ability to hit mind after only a few shots, miss more often at 60m (there was an accuracy test on this thread a few days ago, lost it atm sorry) and HAVE to be master to compete.
The main problem as I see it is that the BH / pistoleer bonuses stack up VERY nicely, where as the defencive mods from say Rifleman / TKA (insert whatever 2nd elite you want here) do not. So I can spend all the points I want, but as long as I'm holding a rifle it won't make any difference whatsoever to the outcome of the fight.
A last point, a lot of servers can still not get the 'top tier' weapon for riflemen.
Note I'm not saying a crafter + master rifleman should compete with a master BH, but someone who spends the same amount of skillpoints as a BH on pure combat skills, should in my mind compete with a BH. Otherwise I can see in a couple of months the combat end of the game just being full of BH / Commados.
Eyeshot DPS is greater than Headshot3 DPS
Eyeshot uses Action, Headshot3 uses Mind
Eyeshot uses less HAM than Headshot3
BH requires only novice BH 0020 to be good with eyeshot, a rifleman needs to be at least 4004 to be good with headshot3 (accuracy/speed). If you notice this guy wasn't quite hitting once per second, so he wasn't even very high up pistoleer!
It wouldn't have mattered if he was wearing a helmet. I can't recall specifically if the numbers floating off his head were half that listed in the chatlog, but it wouldn't have mattered. Add up the numbers. Helmet, no helmet, there was no way I was killing him. And I got majorly lucky that I missed only once to his 3 times. Usually it's the other way around.
I probably would have done better with no helmet myself. It does nothing versus an AP1 pistol, and everyone uses AP1 pistols in PvP. All I get is extra mind cost for shooting.
And like I said... laser rifle? Yeah right. Are you even aware of the HAM cost on those? Are you also aware that the min-max range means you end up havingshots hit for less than a DLT20a?
I don't mind being beat.
I do mind being beat at my own game: mind damage.
If riflemen cannot outdamage Bounty Hunters with headshots, then what, pray tell, is the point of being a rifleman?
The best rifleman is a Bounty Hunter.
I don't mind being beat.
I do mind being beat at my own game: mind damage.
If riflemen cannot outdamage Bounty Hunters with headshots, then what, pray tell, is the point of being a rifleman?
And you know what? The best pistoleer is a Bounty Hunter too. Get over it guys, the BH profession takes the most skill points, therefor its the best combat profession, period.
Pistoleer, caribineer, and rifleman, are not the BEST at that particular weapon, its a shortcut for you if you want to use that weapon but still have points left over for 2 other professions...... it gives you flexibility, not power, make sense??
If you want to own in combat now, be a BH and/or commando(recently) which by the way is the second highest skill point.
But if you want to be "ok" with particular weapon and do other things be a rifleman/pistoleer, etc.
So I can be a Master Scout, Master Marksman and Master Rifleman.
I have therefore used up just as many points as a Bounty Hunter.
I should therefore be just as good as a Bounty Hunter according to you, because I have used the same skill points on combat.
Right? Great, glad we're in agreement on that. So tell me again, why can a Rifleman spend just as many points as a BH and be half as effective?
Also, how many Master Bounty Hunters do you see? I've seen approximately 0. They're all going for about 0120 or thereabouts because that's eyeshot + knockdown.
That does not require more XP than Master Rifleman, but it's still better than Master Rifleman.
Sorry, it doesn't work that way. I can see we won't agree on this.....
I think the way I described it in my previous post it is pretty acurate to the way the game is designed.
Strongest combat profession = BH, is it coincidence that this profession takes the most skill points to get to novice?
Second is now commando, is it coincidence this is the second highest skill point prereq for novice?
By the way I'm not a BH or commando......
If BH is the strongest combat profession, then what role do the other combat professions play?
Specifically, why should anyone want to become a rifleman?
And don't say "so they have points to spend elsewhere". Elsewhere like what? Like scout? You need that for BH anyway. Elsewhere like medic? Nothing stops a BH from picking up medic. Novice Medic and high-end stim-B's are all anyone really needs.
The fact is I have MORE skill points spent on combat skills than any Bounty Hunter. I am a custom hybrid. I should therefore be better than a BH by your own reasoning because I didn't waste any skill point diversifying in marksman or picking up a non-combat profession like scout.
If the point you're trying to make is that professions like rifleman exist solely as a way of giving artisans some minor ability to combat and still have enough skill points to be a Master Armorsmith, then yes, you'd have a point.
But I'm pretty sure that's not the way it was intended to work.
Your not even close to understanding what my point is. Or you do, and your being difficult, either way I'm out of the debate.... ugh.