Rifleman Archive
Thread: Got My Hands on a T21
The T21 against a normal enemy usually hits for less... that's been my experience... but then again most riflemen don't fight the normal monsters... personally with conceal shot... I just go take cover... head for krayts... rancor... kimogilia... or something equally big... that is where the difference really shines...
Armor piercing only helps is there is armor to be pierced... I've seen pistoleers out shoot 2 riflemen on a phamba on Naboo... b/c of damage per second... but against a Krayt... I've personally won against 4 pistoleers and carbineers because of hte armor piercing... go figure 
armor piercing only matters against armor... kind of lame because armor piercing in real life usually kills things without things with armor alot better than it is simulated in teh game... oh well
Reena
that doesn't make sense, fred... ?
Both the Laser and the T21 are energy. If something is highly resistant to energy it's going to hurt both rifles.
T21 has AP3: so if you hit for 1000 combat spam damage with the AP2 laser, and a 1000 combat spam damage with the AP3 T21 - the T21 will have caused more dmg due to the bonus that the higher piercing value gets.
if something is VULNERABLE to energy (it says Energy - (no value)) then you do not get the armor piercing bonus - i think thats what you're trying to say.. right?
anyway, the laser has a higher max dmg, but far lower min dmg - so it has more potential (except against heavy armored opponents) - but is less reliable.
I think Fred means:
If you use a T21, because it is AP3, it only lowers the resist another deal. Armor piercing is not working right and only lowers resist, so if you are fighting an enemy with high energy resist, then the T21 will work better than the Laser. Otherwise, the Laser, with its higher damage will deal more damage than the T21, because it armor piercing isn't really a factor.
I'm pretty sure that is how AP works
I did some testing of my own to see what the difference between the too are. I found some Huurton Huntress. Here is what I found:
Mob Weapon Resists (to engery) Battlespam dmg Float dmg/pool
Huurton Huntress T21 15pct 16922808/A
485807/A
7081175/A
1669 2270/A
10141682/M
9041502/H
1934 3210/M
21023488/H
17882033/H Kill Shot
...next fight,using Laser Riffle
Huurton Huntress Laser Riffle15pct 1182 1568/A
858 1130/H
17442316/A
14671948/A
8651150/H
8181087/H
17532327/A
14941085/H
461 612/M
723 961/M
1226 2291/H
1430 1337/A Kill Shot
I said all that just to say this... I diffently feel that AP for the T21 gives more dmg than the AP on the laser. I ran these numbers to check the accuracy of VG's article, and found that these numbers are very consistant with what he said in his article. So, with all that (the numbers, VG's and other's article) I cannot understand why people say that AP3 isn't any better than AP2. Or why people say the Laser out dmg's the T21 (I do understand that it get have a much higher max dmg, but then there is that AP again).
So, I need some perfoessional help here. There are the numbers, someone please explain to me (like duh for dummies) why you all feel that AP3 isn't better than AP2, or why the Laser is better than the T21. Now, I do understand the difference in HAM, and I do understand the difference in speed. And I do use both weapons. I use my T21 as my 'dmg' weapon, it has a dmg power up on it and was sliced for dmg. I use my laser riffle as my 'assualt' weapon, it has a speed power up on it and was sliced for speed (not what I wanted, but eh).It fires faster, to use Warning Shot/peace, stun or dizzy or suppression. It is my tatical weapon. But when I lay down at 64m from my mob and press conceal shot, the T21 is the weapon I use because it greatly out dmg's the laser IMO.
Almost everyone else on these boards have a LOT more expierence and knowledge than I do on the riffleman profession, and this thread seems the appropriate place to add my question (hece I piggy back on the orginal post, although my expierence seems opposite of ?his). Please helpme to see what I'm missing.
On StarSider Lasers and T21's almost have equal stats and when I made the switch to T21 I definately found it easyer to kill MOB's.
*James Carville Voice* "It's the vunerabilities, stupid."
Look first to see if it has a resist to Energy. if the resist is low, the T21 will rock. If it is vunerable to Energy, the laser will have a higher max damage typically.
all you need to remember: AP3 will not gain you anything if the target has no resist to energy.
Here's my experience with the laser rifle and the t21:
t21's are great against armored/energy resist mobs because AP3 will increase the damage a good amount.
laser rifles will be good against mobs that don't have resist/armor because of their higher max damage and lower ham/speed. This is because if you hit an unarmored mob with a t21, you only get combat spam damage.
Since you're a novice rifleman, go out and kills something armored, you'll definitely see the difference.
KulenErion worte:
laser rifles will be good against mobs that don't have resist/armor because of their higher max damage and lower ham/speed. This is because if you hit an unarmored mob with a t21, you only get combat spam damage.
From memory, I am 95 pct that themobs I listed above has armor none, and I still seemed to get AP3 bonus over the laser. I got battle spam and floaty damage (the colored numbers comming form the mob when I hit him). The next time I log in and see one of these creatures I will check armor again, but I don't think I havn really found any Pickets or Huurtons that have an armor rating other than none.
Huurtons have a resist to energy so T21 should be better. Go back and get data with a Bol and tell me how it goes
to answer some of the foggyness:
Typically a laser rifle has a higher max and mean (no, MEAN, the center of the damage silly 
) then a T21 (NORMAL, post-nerf. I see current lasers greater then pre-nerf as well). If you eliminate the effect of AP, the laser wins. This is what a vunerability does, 0% resist will turn off any effect of AP. Therefore, the base damages of the rifles come into play. This is why I say that, if you are using a T21 make sure the target has resist to energy, which is the damage type of a T21 and Laser. If it is vunerable, no bonus for AP and you have to then disregard it (AP has no effect). I have found this outthe very, very hard way. Yes, it is counter-intutitve, hense the arguments we have with the devs. Although they *think* it's actually working a different way, which is scary.
I think the originaltheory was that a vunerability would allow a AP0 weapon to hit a AR1+ critter to full effect. In this mode all is working correctly. I have not seen critters that go beyond AR1 tho, comments?
This is because about 60% have resist to energy. But you would be surprised which do not and you have to watch for this.
TBirdOfGAW2 wrote:
KulenErion worte:
laser rifles will be good against mobs that don't have resist/armor because of their higher max damage and lower ham/speed. This is because if you hit an unarmored mob with a t21, you only get combat spam damage.
From memory, I am 95 pct that themobs I listed above has armor none, and I still seemed to get AP3 bonus over the laser. I got battle spam and floaty damage (the colored numbers comming form the mob when I hit him). The next time I log in and see one of these creatures I will check armor again, but I don't think I havn really found any Pickets or Huurtons that have an armor rating other than none.