Rifleman Archive
Thread: Nerf This.
Waste93 wrote:
Sleksheea wrote:
(After calculating your base accuracy advantage over pistoleer, your accuracy while moving isSTILL the same as pistoleer's even with the accuracy while moving bonus they get)
Total accuracy between a Pistoleer and Rifleman is less than 10% difference of the total. Once you factor in that there is a to hit cap of 95% that really doesn't matter.A Master Rifleman is going to hit at close range just like a Master Pistoleer and the Master Pistoleer is going to hit at max range just as often as the Master Rifleman. (Yes, and your somehow forgot to mention that the rifleman hits with much greater damage per shot, and that the rifleman has MUCH more ranged defence than the pistoleer nullifying that close accuracy comparison between the two you gave.. oh how did you forget to factor in the ranged defence mods?? Your accuracy statements are completely wrong.
Pistoleer ranged defence = +7. Rifleman ranged defence = +72. This gives riflemen a 36% greater chance to hit the pistoleer than vice-versa.
(OK, and I didn't say you did.You do have AP3 though and none of your ranged counterpartsnore most melee professions have it (and thoes that do can't attack nearly as fast).
Not true. Commandos have AP3 weapons. (LOL when is the last time you saw a commando firing the one and only AP3 weapon they have... the rocket Launcher? When have you ever even SEEN a rocket launcher? Oh, and at a fireing rate of somethin like 12 seconds delay, I would have to say that techinacally yes, they have an AP3 weapon, but realistically, no, they don't.) Don't be lame.
You also have a stun weapon that again, half the combat professions don't get. Sure pistoleer FINALLY got a geo pistol that has stun on it but compare it's damage output (inital or over time)to that of a rifleman's Jawa rifle... no contest, jawa wins. (not to mentionthe rarety of any kind of decent geo pistol).
So? Not everyone is suppose to have all the same stuff. Rifleman have no Kinetic weapons but Pistoleers do. Neither of us have a Blast weapon but Swordsman and Commandos do. (LOL... like anything you said here is relevant. 90% composite resiststhe same amount for kinetic and blast...90%. Your stun Jawa on the other hand is only inhibited by 40% MAX composite. Your switching the issues here... try to stick to the point. Your same damage type weapons as the pistoleer's are much more powerfull initially and over time. That's the point. Weather it's stun, heat, whatever, riflemen can shoot as fast, do more damage, and have more accuracy than pistoleers. Not to mention targeting the mind pool.These things are what makes riflemen overpowered!)
The point is that the professions are suppose to be different. They aren't suppose to be the same nor have the dame damage output. Riflemans advantage is offense and their weakness is defense. The Pistoleers are the opposite. High defense (though it needs to be increased) and low damage. (Hmm... again Pistoleer = +7 ranged defence and Rifleman = +72 ranged defence. I think your seriously confused here. Don't go and try to talk about pistoleer's state defences, as were comparing riflemen and pistoleers, not TKA to pistoleers. Neither can do state effects other than bleed (pistoleer can't anyway, not sure about riflemen)... and again aa +50% to any state defence only means it takes 2x as many hits usually to stick a state on that profession. No big deal whatsoever. I'de take the ranged defence bonus anyday.
LOL... are you actually going to deny this? Master pistoleers hit creatures for 700-2000 using their most damaging special stopping shot depending on the uberness of their pistol. What do master riflemen hit creatures for using their most damaging special? 4-6K? YUP!).
Again. Profession are not suppose to all have the same damage output. It's the Rifleman advantage. You aren't suppose to be able to compete with it. Just as a Rifleman can't compete with the defenses of the Pistoleer. (LMAO... AGAIN... PISTOLEER = +7 ranged defence // Riflemen = +72 ranged defence! Sorry, pistoleer has no defence advantage what so ever vs. a rifleman!!! It's quite the opposite!
P.S. I guess I agree with you that "Profession are not suppose to all have the same damage output. It's the Rifleman advantage. You aren't suppose to be able to compete with it." That's why riflemen are overpowered... almost nobody can compete with it!
Case closed.
Message Edited by Sleksheea on 08-01-2004 08:11 PM
I TOLD them they should have made our spherical space station out of the same magnetically shielded walls as the garbage compactor! -Sleksheea 
Rifleman tries KD on Pistoleer.....oh, wait. We can't. Even if we could, you have very good defenses against it and other status effects. Def vs. Status counts as defense too. Not just ranged/melee defense. BTW, our +40 melee defense is less than 0 (yes, youread correctly) when we have a rifle in our hands.Message Edited by XaverriJade7 on 08-02-2004 12:58 AM
XaverriJade7 wrote:
Pistoleer should be using Melee defense more than ranged. Look at your ideal accuracy mods. (LOL, master pistoleer gets +45 to melee defense. Put up against any melee class, (example a TKA with an accuracy of 205, pistoleer gets hammered. That's a difference of 160 points of accuracy bonus to the TKA to hit the pistoleer.) The bonus differencein rifleman vs pistoleer is 90 points, in favor of the rifleman or if you include the pistoleer's ranged defence, 87 whole points! LOL. By the way, TKA has a ranged defence of +45, just an interesting fact. Sorry, but if youthink +45 melee defence is ideal vs a melee class, your smoking crack. But then your also getting off the subject. Weretalking aboutriflemen vspistoleer vs carbineer here. Riflemen own every ranged profession,and any rifleman with a clue owns every melee profession as well...Kite, headshot, kite, headshot, kite, headshot... Thanks. No, thank you!
Riflemen have Block. It hardly ever activates, and stop only 50% of damage when it does. (It hardley ever activates probably because your ranged defence is taking care of every shot before it even gets there OR your getting shot by another rifleman LOL). Oh, and 50% of next to no damage at all is hardly a bad thing. Next time you fight a pistoleer, examine the combat logs. Then look at how many time the pistoleer hit you vs you hitting him. Nuff said. Pistoleer has Dodge which activates far more frequenty and stops 100% of damage. Forget that part? (LMAO... what do you know about dodge? Dodge is debatable if it even works it's soo bugged. And I hate to tell you, riflemen's accuracy nearly illiminates any benifit of dodge... again, examine your combat loggs if you want proof.
Try any status effect on a Rifleman. KD for example? It will stick with less than minimal effort. KD=Big damage bonus. I bet you like that, huh?
Finally, big, bold writing does not make you more correct. No, but hopefully it brings the point to the attention of you riflemen who are obviously trying to avoid it (point being rifleman is overpowered in case you didn't catch on).
Case is now closed. HAHA! Can't you try to be origional?
Message Edited by Sleksheea on 08-01-2004 11:01 PM
Try this for fun. Get a bh, with eye shot. Against a master rifleman - Have them buffed and armoured. Both using stun guns. No food, or drinks.
The rifleman will die for one simple reason. Their HAM costs are focused on the mind they eat up their own mind using specials more than any other profession. The BH can hit for almost the same amount of dmg if they have a half decent geo pistol.
Im not sure about swordsman. But i know they can get huge amounts of damage in PVE, let me try to convert with the kinetic resistance.
My friend said he's gotten up to 6k on a head hit with master swordsman and an ackley power hammer. Unsure of resistances on MoB.
***Assuming mind is 1k******Without any regen***
6k - 75% PvP Reduction = 6000 - 4500 = 1500
So, against an un-helmeted attacker he can almost wipe out and unbuffed mind with one hit.
With armor .. let's take 80%.
1.5k - 80% Armor = 1500 - 1200 = 300 (Dont hold me to the calc's i did it in my head)
That will take about 4 hits to take out a helmeted mind.
....
Not personally i have no clue about how often a swordsman hits. But thats about the same damage as a rifleman would dish out with a Jawa Gun against stun vun armor.
NOTE: Im just going by what ive been told by a friend. That 6k damage could be totally fake and ive just made a complete fool of myself if it is. But im using it because thats the only hit i know from a swordsman.
Why is rifleman considered better in PvP? Range.
If a swordsman could get into range in pvp and kd you... It'll be worse than any rifleman you've ever faced.
And those who say carbineer sucks... I know someone who was a carbineer i used to hunt with him a lot.
He used to dish out about the same damage on leg hit 3 as i do with headshot 3 with my 500 dmg T21.
Rifleman don't have a kd at all like everyother marksman profession except commando.
As stated before, the range and ability to hit the mind pool is what makes the rifleman a danger.
Message Edited by Acidictadpole on 08-02-2004 02:32 AM
Sleksheea wrote:
(Yes, and your somehow forgot to mention that the rifleman hits with much greater damage per shot, and that the rifleman has MUCH more ranged defence than the pistoleer nullifying that close accuracy comparison between the two you gave.. oh how did you forget to factor in the ranged defence mods?? Your accuracy statements are completely wrong.
Pistoleer ranged defence = +7. Rifleman ranged defence = +72. This gives riflemen a 36% greater chance to hit the pistoleer than vice-versa.
Actually his accuracy statements are completely correct. If I were to shoot a stormtrooper at point blank and a pistoleer would we would hit about as often. Same at 60 meters. Ranged defense only comes into play during PvP (something that far fewer people then you'd like to admit do) wherein many other pro and con factors are put into play. Essentially, if you want to balance PvP solely on accuracy and DPS good luck finding a system that works.
Also our high damage output is our pro. It is our role. Want to know what counters this and is our weakness? I bet you can't since it has been completely nullified by later implementations into the game. Give up? It's HAM costs, you know the floating number after you do a special. However now that number is 0 instead of 200 thanks to brandy, canape, dancers and musicians. Throw buffs out the window or scale them down a lot and we kill ourselves faster then you can.
(LOL when is the last time you saw a commando firing the one and only AP3 weapon they have... the rocket Launcher? When have you ever even SEEN a rocket launcher? Oh, and at a fireing rate of somethin like 12 seconds delay, I would have to say that techinacally yes, they have an AP3 weapon, but realistically, no, they don't.) Don't be lame.
So what you are saying is that a commandoes weapon is broken in a sense, or at least the sense that it is far too weak for the benefits it affords. Hmm I fail to see how this is a rifleman issue nor how it is pertinent to our discussion. They have an AP3 weapon so we are not alone, and if they feel it needs to be beefed up (which it does) that is their issue.
(LOL... like anything you said here is relevant. 90% composite resiststhe same amount for kinetic and blast...90%. Your stun Jawa on the other hand is only inhibited by 40% MAX composite. Your switching the issues here... try to stick to the point. Your same damage type weapons as the pistoleer's are much more powerfull initially and over time. That's the point. Weather it's stun, heat, whatever, riflemen can shoot as fast, do more damage, and have more accuracy than pistoleers. Not to mention targeting the mind pool.These things are what makes riflemen overpowered!)
So what you are saying is that armor is severely overpowered in most departmentsand has caused only a few damage types, which few professions have access to, overpowering. So why exactly are we changing the damage type and not the overpowered armor?
Also your statement that our damage types are more powerful initially and over time is in fact incorrect. We have high HAM costs that, when actually take effect and not negated by overpowered buffs and foods, prevent us from fighting after our first 10 shots are fired. We are the equivalent to artillery in a sense. We do high damage up front (as you noted) however we only get a few shots off before the enemy rushes our line and slaughters us.
Find a rifleman that just lost his buffs. Ask him to fire 3 strafeshot 2's both with and without his composite armor so the encumberance factor is shown. You'll notice a large dent in his blue bar even though noone is attacking him.It will rather quickly enter the "red zone" or the area where itis unsafe to be involved in combat since any random HAM special will kill you, and just a few shots after this area it enters the "deadzone" where a normal shot to the mind bar will kill you.Our con will be painfully obvious and you'll see how vulnerable we are in a true fight where buffs are uninvolved and wearing armor becomes a tactical choice instead of an invisible one.
(Hmm... again Pistoleer = +7 ranged defence and Rifleman = +72 ranged defence. I think your seriously confused here. Don't go and try to talk about pistoleer's state defences, as were comparing riflemen and pistoleers, not TKA to pistoleers. Neither can do state effects other than bleed (pistoleer can't anyway, not sure about riflemen)... and again aa +50% to any state defence only means it takes 2x as many hits usually to stick a state on that profession. No big deal whatsoever. I'de take the ranged defence bonus anyday.
Then get a profession that will give you high ranged defense if you'd prefer that over state and melee defense. Some people would rather be great at surviving blow after blow from carbineers and meleemen. Use a special against a rifleman and it will stick. We will be pretty screwed when that happens. Try any melee attack against a rifleman. You'll hit us many times more often then you would any other profession. We have high ranged defense (a tad too high) but that is it. Well there is more then 1 defense type to consider and pistoleer takes the cake in all those other departments compared to us.
(LMAO... AGAIN... PISTOLEER = +7 ranged defence // Riflemen = +72 ranged defence! Sorry, pistoleer has no defence advantage what so ever vs. a rifleman!!! It's quite the opposite!
Yes, however what advantage do you have over a carbineer especially compared to a rifleman who is also attacking a carbineer. What defense advantage do you have against melee in comparison to a rifleman? Why that's right you have many times the defensive capabilities relative to a rifleman. I'm sorry but this proves Waste's point and the fact that you want to ignore everything but ranged defense simply speaks volumes about yourself as opposed to anything in regards to this argument.
P.S. I guess I agree with you that "Profession are not suppose to all have the same damage output. It's the Rifleman advantage. You aren't suppose to be able to compete with it." That's why riflemen are overpowered... almost nobody can compete with it!
Actually many can. If a tera kasi artist where to get within range and use a status attack such as KD and/or Dizzy I am dead. Do you know why? Because I have no defense against either of those and knocking me down effectively removes all of my DPS. Actually all melee professions have a great chance of killing me since they all have a high to hit bonus against me. Carbineers and bounty hunters can leave quite a dent in us thanks to our defensive weaknesses. Essentially most people can defeat a rifleman...when the fight starts off the way the game is meant to be played and without any other overpowering elements entering the fray that weights every encounter in the riflemans favor.
Sleksheea wrote:
XaverriJade7 wrote:
Pistoleer should be using Melee defense more than ranged. Look at your ideal accuracy mods. (LOL, master pistoleer gets +45 to melee defense. Put up against any melee class, (example a TKA with an accuracy of 205, pistoleer gets hammered. That's a difference of 160 points of accuracy bonus to the TKA to hit the pistoleer.) The bonus differencein rifleman vs pistoleer is 90 points, in favor of the rifleman or if you include the pistoleer's ranged defence, 87 whole points! LOL. By the way, TKA has a ranged defence of +45, just an interesting fact. Sorry, but if youthink +45 melee defence is ideal vs a melee class, your smoking crack. But then your also getting off the subject. Weretalking aboutriflemen vspistoleer vs carbineer here. Riflemen own every ranged profession,and any rifleman with a clue owns every melee profession as well...Kite, headshot, kite, headshot, kite, headshot... Thanks. No, thank you!
Riflemen have Block. It hardly ever activates, and stop only 50% of damage when it does. (It hardley ever activates probably because your ranged defence is taking care of every shot before it even gets there OR your getting shot by another rifleman LOL). Oh, and 50% of next to no damage at all is hardly a bad thing. Next time you fight a pistoleer, examine the combat logs. Then look at how many time the pistoleer hit you vs you hitting him. Nuff said. Pistoleer has Dodge which activates far more frequenty and stops 100% of damage. Forget that part? (LMAO... what do you know about dodge? Dodge is debatable if it even works it's soo bugged. And I hate to tell you, riflemen's accuracy nearly illiminates any benifit of dodge... again, examine your combat loggs if you want proof.
Try any status effect on a Rifleman. KD for example? It will stick with less than minimal effort. KD=Big damage bonus. I bet you like that, huh?
Finally, big, bold writing does not make you more correct. No, but hopefully it brings the point to the attention of you riflemen who are obviously trying to avoid it (point being rifleman is overpowered in case you didn't catch on).
Case is now closed. HAHA! Can't you try to be origional?
Message Edited by Sleksheea on 08-01-2004 11:01 PM
Heh, I should take this view too since I seem to bring up the same truths over and over but a good quid pro quo is just fun to me. Must be why I went into politics ingame
XaverriJade7 wrote:
EDIT: I replied to each and every of your points as it seems has become standard here. It wasn't all nice things either, but it was accurate. However, I have decided that this constant back-and-forth garbage is useless. I'm sick of these pointless arguements. Post deleted. Instead, please just take this with you:
Thank you
Weapon Speed Min Damage Max Damage Special Speed Special DamageSpeed Mods Special Fire RMin Special DPMax Special DPAvg Special DPMinD vs AR1MaxD vs AR1AvgD vs AR1
Master Carbineer
DH17 Carbine 2.8 109 233 2.5 7.5 60 2.8 291.96 624.11 458.04 145.98 312.05 229.02
DXR6 4.1 155 222 2.5 7.5 60 4.1 283.54 406.1 344.82 283.54 406.1 344.82
E11 Carbine 3 116 198 2.5 7.5 60 3 290 495 392.5 290 495 392.5
EE3 3.1 124 239 2.5 7.5 60 3.1 300 578.23 439.11 150 289.11 219.56
Laser Carbine 3.9 84 319 2.5 7.5 60 3.9 161.54 613.46 387.5 201.92 766.83 484.38
Elite Carbine 3.9 147 225 2.5 7.5 60 3.9 282.69 432.69 357.69 282.69 432.69 357.69
Master Pistoleer
Republic Blast2.6 67 199 2.5 6 74 1.69 237.87 706.51 472.19 237.87 706.51 472.19
FW FWG5 2.6 57 149 2.5 6 74 1.69 202.37 528.99 365.68 101.18 264.5 182.84
Scout Blaster 1.8 79 154 2.5 6 74 1.17 405.13 789.74 597.44 202.56 394.87 298.72
DX2 2.4 104 163 2.5 6 74 1.56 400 626.92 513.46 400 626.92 513.46
Scatter Pistol2.2 121 154 2.5 6 74 1.43 507.69 646.15 576.92 507.69 646.15 576.92
DH17 Pistol 2 100 153 2.5 6 74 1.3 461.54 706.15 583.85 230.77 353.08 291.92
Master Rifleman
Jawa 5.6 127 232 3.5 7.5 90 1.96 485.97 887.76 686.86 485.97 887.76 686.86
Tusken Rifle 6.5 193 276 3.5 7.5 90 2.28 636.26 909.89 773.08 636.26 909.89 773.08
DLT20A 5.3 166 249 3.5 7.5 90 1.86 671.16 1006.74 838.95 335.58 503.37 419.47
Spray Stick 1.9 47 184 3.5 7.5 90 1 352.5 1380 866.25 176.25 690 433.13
Laser Rifle 6 84 448 3.5 7.5 90 2.1 300 1600 950 375 2000 1187.5
DXR6B 5.8 190 358 3.5 7.5 90 2.03 701.97 1322.66 1012.32 877.46 1653.33 1265.39
E11 Rifle 5 112 224 3.5 7.5 90 1.75 480 960 720 600 1200 900
T21 7.6 172 400 3.5 7.5 90 2.66 484.96 1127.82 806.39 757.75 1762.22 1259.99
Acidictadpole wrote:
As the opening poster said, if carbineers could attack the mind pool and had a stun gun, they would be having nerf cried upon them too They don't do as much damage or shoot as fast, or have as good accuracy.. And same for pistoleer. Even worse .As countless people have said its the fact that we can do mind damage that makes us good at PvP. A lot more than just that
Try this for fun. Get a bh, with eye shot. Against a master rifleman - Have them buffed and armoured. Both using stun guns. No food, or drinks.
The rifleman will die for one simple reason. Their HAM costs are focused on the mind they eat up their own mind using specials more than any other profession. Your making stuff up. Once riflemen have entainer buffs, and their mind stats are set up right, specials don't take anything off their minds. Especially with the many variours chef foods that add to their mind.The BH can hit for almost the same amount of dmg if they have a half decent geo pistol. LMAO... ok, if your a BH and can hit a creature for 6K per shot every second please rais your hand! pfttt
Im not sure about swordsman. But i know they can get huge amounts of damage in PVE, let me try to convert with the kinetic resistance.
My friend said he's gotten up to 6k on a head hit with master swordsman and an ackley power hammer. Unsure of resistances on MoB.
***Assuming mind is 1k******Without any regen***
6k - 75% PvP Reduction = 6000 - 4500 = 1500
So, against an un-helmeted attacker he can almost wipe out and unbuffed mind with one hit.
With armor .. let's take 80%.
1.5k - 80% Armor = 1500 - 1200 = 300 (Dont hold me to the calc's i did it in my head)
These damage numbers sound like they are from PvE, not PvP with the 75% reduction... but it's possible I guess
That will take about 4 hits to take out a helmeted mind.
....
Not personally i have no clue about how often a swordsman hits. But thats about the same damage as a rifleman would dish out with a Jawa Gun against stun vun armor.
NOTE: Im just going by what ive been told by a friend. That 6k damage could be totally fake and ive just made a complete fool of myself if it is. But im using it because thats the only hit i know from a swordsman.
Why is rifleman considered better in PvP? Range.
If a swordsman could get into range in pvp and kd you... It'll be worse than any rifleman you've ever faced.
And those who say carbineer sucks... I know someone who was a carbineer i used to hunt with him a lot.
He used to dish out about the same damage on leg hit 3 as i do with headshot 3 with my 500 dmg T21.
Rifleman don't have a kd at all like everyother marksman profession except commando. Pistoleer KD is if anything amusing... no dizzy, no damage (hardley) and you have to be in melee range...
As stated before, the range and ability to hit the mind pool is what makes the rifleman a danger. As stated before... and their damage, and defence mods, and speed, and accuracy.
Message Edited by Acidictadpole on 08-02-2004 02:32 AM
PsychoticChipmunk wrote:
Sleksheea wrote:
(Yes, and your somehow forgot to mention that the rifleman hits with much greater damage per shot, and that the rifleman has MUCH more ranged defence than the pistoleer nullifying that close accuracy comparison between the two you gave.. oh how did you forget to factor in the ranged defence mods?? Your accuracy statements are completely wrong.
Pistoleer ranged defence = +7. Rifleman ranged defence = +72. This gives riflemen a 36% greater chance to hit the pistoleer than vice-versa.
Actually his accuracy statements are completely correct. If I were to shoot a stormtrooper at point blank and a pistoleer would we would hit about as often. Same at 60 meters. Ranged defense only comes into play during PvP (something that far fewer people then you'd like to admit do) wherein many other pro and con factors are put into play. Essentially, if you want to balance PvP solely on accuracy and DPS good luck finding a system that works.
Also our high damage output is our pro. It is our role. Want to know what counters this and is our weakness? I bet you can't since it has been completely nullified by later implementations into the game. Give up? It's HAM costs, you know the floating number after you do a special. However now that number is 0 instead of 200 thanks to brandy, canape, dancers and musicians. Throw buffs out the window or scale them down a lot and we kill ourselves faster then you can. If your out PvPing with out these buffs you deserve to die anyway! Nobody goes with out buffs. You have ZERO HAM consumption from the activation of any of your specials. This arguement doesnt hold water.
(LOL when is the last time you saw a commando firing the one and only AP3 weapon they have... the rocket Launcher? When have you ever even SEEN a rocket launcher? Oh, and at a fireing rate of somethin like 12 seconds delay, I would have to say that techinacally yes, they have an AP3 weapon, but realistically, no, they don't.) Don't be lame.
So what you are saying is that a commandoes weapon is broken in a sense, or at least the sense that it is far too weak for the benefits it affords. Hmm I fail to see how this is a rifleman issue nor how it is pertinent to our discussion. They have an AP3 weapon so we are not alone, and if they feel it needs to be beefed up (which it does) that is their issue. LMAO... I was replying to the rifleman dude who broght this up, I didn't bring it up. Read back further...
(LOL... like anything you said here is relevant. 90% composite resiststhe same amount for kinetic and blast...90%. Your stun Jawa on the other hand is only inhibited by 40% MAX composite. Your switching the issues here... try to stick to the point. Your same damage type weapons as the pistoleer's are much more powerfull initially and over time. That's the point. Weather it's stun, heat, whatever, riflemen can shoot as fast, do more damage, and have more accuracy than pistoleers. Not to mention targeting the mind pool.These things are what makes riflemen overpowered!)
So what you are saying is that armor is severely overpowered in most departmentsand has caused only a few damage types, which few professions have access to, overpowering. So why exactly are we changing the damage type and not the overpowered armor? From what I hear, armor is being nerfed, DEV's never intended it to hit 90%. BUT that won't change a thing,,, damage output percnetages will still be the same after the armor nerf as they are now, excapt maybe HAM regeneration wont out-regenerate pistoleer damage...
Also your statement that our damage types are more powerful initially and over time is in fact incorrect. We have high HAM costs that, when actually take effect and not negated by overpowered buffs and foods, prevent us from fighting after our first 10 shots are fired. We are the equivalent to artillery in a sense. We do high damage up front (as you noted) however we only get a few shots off before the enemy rushes our line and slaughters us.
Find a rifleman that just lost his buffs. Ask him to fire 3 strafeshot 2's both with and without his composite armor so the encumberance factor is shown. You'll notice a large dent in his blue bar even though noone is attacking him.It will rather quickly enter the "red zone" or the area where itis unsafe to be involved in combat since any random HAM special will kill you, and just a few shots after this area it enters the "deadzone" where a normal shot to the mind bar will kill you.Our con will be painfully obvious and you'll see how vulnerable we are in a true fight where buffs are uninvolved and wearing armor becomes a tactical choice instead of an invisible one. Your not proving anything here. Every class has HAM costs associated with specials. I havea TKA that I can't spam unarmedhit3 unbuffed for the same reason. If your buffed and on food, everyone can spam with ZERO HAM costs. Even you.
(Hmm... again Pistoleer = +7 ranged defence and Rifleman = +72 ranged defence. I think your seriously confused here. Don't go and try to talk about pistoleer's state defences, as were comparing riflemen and pistoleers, not TKA to pistoleers. Neither can do state effects other than bleed (pistoleer can't anyway, not sure about riflemen)... and again aa +50% to any state defence only means it takes 2x as many hits usually to stick a state on that profession. No big deal whatsoever. I'de take the ranged defence bonus anyday.
Then get a profession that will give you high ranged defense if you'd prefer that over state and melee defense. Some people would rather be great at surviving blow after blow from carbineers and meleemen. Use a special against a rifleman and it will stick. We will be pretty screwed when that happens. Try any melee attack against a rifleman. You'll hit us many times more often then you would any other profession. We have high ranged defense (a tad too high) but that is it. Well there is more then 1 defense type to consider and pistoleer takes the cake in all those other departments compared to us. Dude, you didn't read any of the above posts did you. Ask any pistoleer if he would trade all his state defenses for the same ranged defence as a rifleman... they would do it in an instant. States don't stick if you can't hit the target (riflemen)
(LMAO... AGAIN... PISTOLEER = +7 ranged defence // Riflemen = +72 ranged defence! Sorry, pistoleer has no defence advantage what so ever vs. a rifleman!!! It's quite the opposite!
Yes, however what advantage do you have over a carbineer especially compared to a rifleman who is also attacking a carbineer. What defense advantage do you have against melee in comparison to a rifleman? Why that's right you have many times the defensive capabilities relative to a rifleman. LMAO,your making up nonesense. Pistoleer melee defence = +45. Riflemen melee defence = 40. How do you figuer that is "many times the defensive capabilities"?. I'm sorry but this proves Waste's point and the fact that you want to ignore everything but ranged defense simply speaks volumes about yourself as opposed to anything in regards to this argument. I haven't ignored ANYTHING... your just to lazy to read the previous posts. Your reiterating garbage that has already been covered.
P.S. I guess I agree with you that "Profession are not suppose to all have the same damage output. It's the Rifleman advantage. You aren't suppose to be able to compete with it." That's why riflemen are overpowered... almost nobody can compete with it!
Actually many can. If a tera kasi artist where to get within range and use a status attack such as KD and/or Dizzy I am dead. Anybody who gets KD'd and Dizzy is pretty much dead. Do you know why? Because I have no defense against either of those and knocking me down effectively removes all of my DPS. Actually all melee professions have a great chance of killing me since they all have a high to hit bonus against me. Carbineers and bounty hunters can leave quite a dent in us thanks to our defensive weaknesses. Essentially most people can defeat a rifleman...when the fight starts off the way the game is meant to be played and without any other overpowering elements entering the fray that weights every encounter in the riflemans favor. LMAO, dude, yes, riflemen have died at the hands of others... but not as often as others die at the hands of riflemen. Why don't you be a rifleman and pistoleer? Best of both worlds, uber damage, accuracy, speed and mind hits from rifles.... and state defences from pistol... LMAO as if you'd spend 92 points for thoes state defences... They really don't help at all... I've never NOT been KD/Dizzied by a TKA
How difficult is it for people to recognize that is is buffs that cause us to be more powerful then they themselves. Buffs are what make us more powerful then we ever were and more powerful then we were ever meant to be.
Remove/lower buffs and armor has to be dropped in effectiveness otherwise noone can wear it effectively. End result of this? Pistols and carbines hit for higher damage and cause people to actually watch their christmas colored bars in a fight rather then just randomly check on 'em and refill them completely with 1-2 stims (another item that is overpowered considering it's low lvl requirement)
But surely that will make rifleman more powerful since their high damage gets even higher with the drop in energy resists! (Notice how stun weaponry doesn't even enter the conversation now since all other damage types are given equal weight due to armors sane lvl of resistance.) Well yes this is true. However you have to also look at what will happen to the rifleman himself:
For us to work we have to have our mind bars heightened to an insane level. Insane level?? LMAO, entainer buffs... ooo, soo hard! OR 2 hits of good brandy... OOOO soo hard! Most drop health and action as well as their subs to as low as they can simply to get mind up as high as it can go. This amazingly enough weakens us in the 2 pools that a pistoleer and carbineer can target. They can target, but can't hit LOL... (especially noticeable with humans due to the broken nature of their stats) With these 2 pools and subs lowered so much armor is essentially removed as an option. In fact, right now while my bothan character is unbuffed all he can wear is 1 main piece of his composite armor. Encumberance is simply too high a cost considering our HA bars will only survive 3, 4 hits tops so weakening them further is a bad idea, but on top of this most armor encumberance is focused on, guess where, the mind! Meaning that not only do we weaken our already weak bars but we essentially remove all the positives that weakening health and action afforded us. Even with encumberance brought down severely due to the weakening of buffs the encumberance factors just too high for a rifleman's specials to be useful in more then a few situations. Your blowing smoke again... Get buffs andnone of what you said applies, and everyone who PvP's has buffs.
So basically what does all this mean in a nutshell? Without buffs we would not be able to wear armor, meaning that pistols and carbines hit for their full 75% reduced damage. On top of this, we have our 2 pools that are targetted by pistols and carbines weakened to a sad level. So with the full 25% amount of damage that you are doing against us, we will die in only a few shots. Couple that with the fact that we use mind for our specials, which is also used in order to heal health and action, the ability to heal our 2 lowest bars essentially comes at the cost of a special attack. I'm inches from flaming you, but I wont. Your whole post is irrelevant. Your examples are terrible, because they don't exist... possible, but NOBODY plays like your suggesting.
XaverriJade7 wrote:
EDIT: I replied to each and every of your points as it seems has become standard here. It wasn't all nice things either, but it was accurate. However, I have decided that this constant back-and-forth garbage is useless. I'm sick of these pointless arguements. Post deleted. Instead, please just take this with you:
The only reason Rifleman seems overpowered, is due to buffs/armor being overpowered(I said this already several posts up). It seems no one wants to recognize this. If you have a problem with a particular class, the Devs can change that. Coming here and venting(Devs do not read this forum, trust me. They will never see what you have written, so this is just a waste of time) is not the thing to do. Try to be more constructive than destructive. Nerfing everyone will destroy the game. Fixing the professions that need to be fixed, even if it is 95% of them, is the only way to make things better.
Thank you
LOL, guess you have nothing left to say. Show me where I said I wanted to nerf any class at all? I didn't. All I'm doing is proving riflemen are overpowered as the current system runs. You can't deny it. If it wasn't true, 80% of the combat classes on every server wouldn't be riflemen.
Ackehece wrote:
Sleksheea wrote:
XaverriJade7 wrote:
Pistoleer should be using Melee defense more than ranged. Look at your ideal accuracy mods. (LOL, master pistoleer gets +45 to melee defense. Put up against any melee class, (example a TKA with an accuracy of 205, pistoleer gets hammered. That's a difference of 160 points of accuracy bonus to the TKA to hit the pistoleer.) The bonus differencein rifleman vs pistoleer is 90 points, in favor of the rifleman or if you include the pistoleer's ranged defence, 87 whole points! LOL. By the way, TKA has a ranged defence of +45, just an interesting fact. Sorry, but if youthink +45 melee defence is ideal vs a melee class, your smoking crack. But then your also getting off the subject. Weretalking aboutriflemen vspistoleer vs carbineer here. Riflemen own every ranged profession,and any rifleman with a clue owns every melee profession as well...Kite, headshot, kite, headshot, kite, headshot... Thanks. No, thank you!
Riflemen have Block. It hardly ever activates, and stop only 50% of damage when it does. (It hardley ever activates probably because your ranged defence is taking care of every shot before it even gets there OR your getting shot by another rifleman LOL). Oh, and 50% of next to no damage at all is hardly a bad thing. Next time you fight a pistoleer, examine the combat logs. Then look at how many time the pistoleer hit you vs you hitting him. Nuff said. Pistoleer has Dodge which activates far more frequenty and stops 100% of damage. Forget that part? (LMAO... what do you know about dodge? Dodge is debatable if it even works it's soo bugged. And I hate to tell you, riflemen's accuracy nearly illiminates any benifit of dodge... again, examine your combat loggs if you want proof.
Try any status effect on a Rifleman. KD for example? It will stick with less than minimal effort. KD=Big damage bonus. I bet you like that, huh?
Finally, big, bold writing does not make you more correct. No, but hopefully it brings the point to the attention of you riflemen who are obviously trying to avoid it (point being rifleman is overpowered in case you didn't catch on).
Case is now closed. HAHA! Can't you try to be origional?
Message Edited by Sleksheea on 08-01-2004 11:01 PM
Nice to see a pistoleer who does not know his own specials even... Pistol Melee defence 1 and 2 both have a knockdown effect. (though I grant you that melee defence 2 does not land the knockdown as often as 1 does - borked?) No, only pistol melee defence 1 has the knock down effect.. The other one is broken, like almost every pistolleer special. Oh, and so you know, I was replying to knockdown + Dizzy. Pistoleers don't have a DIZZY. Knockdown is nothing but humorus to watch without a dizzy added to it. And for pistoleers, it's a melee range move, not ranged.
Dodge does work, in fact it is one of the skills most stacked in the game. If you are a pvp'r you pick up fencer dodge and pistoleer dodge until you hit the 125 cap as that makes you virtually unhitable... master rifle has been document many times as requiring 10 or more shots to get one to land, how often have you ever missed a rifleman when you shoot back at him... OMG, your full of it. Documented where? LOL I posted a screenshot not to long ago of a battle between me and a rifleman... 1 in 7 shots hit him, 4 of 5 of his shots hit me. Ask any pistoleer how they fare vs a rifleman, LMAO
many professions stack with Pistoleer to give pistoleers specials, speed, accuracy and better defense... compare that to a rifleman, we gain no specials other then marksmen specials, we gain no speed, we can gain better defenses but as we start at a lower level our max defences are/will be lower.Aren't Everybody's defences lower at a lower level?? You say you gain no specials... at least the specials you have WORK. and your speed, accuracy, etc. is nearly at it's cap with JUST rifleman. Pistoleers HAVE to get the BH pistol tree just to equal a rifleman's mods for these things. THen guess what... no skillpoints!
As has been said many times in this thread it is not rifleman that are to powerful, it is that the advent of uber armor and buffs have cause rifleman to lose their negative - high ham costs and to gain a positive a armor piercing stun weapon And again as I've stated many times already... because of this and OTHER THINGS MENTIONED, riflemen are OVERPOWERED. Guess what? Nerf armor and buffs, andNOTHING will change! The other professions will take the exact same hit as riflemen.