Rifleman Archive
Thread: Eyeshot Post by a BH
"Seems like a fair tradeoff. You're better at PvE. We're better at PvP."
Now, most of your posts have been very reasonable, but this is a very narrow minded statement. There comes a point where PVE doesn't matter any more & the GCW is the primary focus. Why does a Master Rifleman need to PvE? Not for XP. Loot maybe, but since this is not a loot driven game...
Getting back to the point of this thread, Eyeshot, Mind damage doesnt really matter in PvE since mobs don't heal themselves. However, even in PvE our application of mind damage is limited insofar as we draw from the mind pool to do it. So the Eyeshot question is ONLYa matter of PvP since a BH can spam it, hit a stim B, and then spam it some more. Aside from the LLC and Eyeshot,BH skillson their ownare not unreasonable. Eyeshot would not be an issue, except for the fact that it can be spammed with impunity.
Having said allthat, I don't disagree that a BH should be better in 1 v 1 combat. I think that the Rifleman role in PvP is more group oriented. I would think that in group PvP BH and Rifleman could compliment eachother nicely.
Meyree.....meyree meyree meyree....
Who was this rifleman friend of yours? What was his skill with a rifle, and what WAS his rifle? If we are to compare what you do with what he does we need a lot more supporting facts.
Personally, with headshot 3 and my laser rifle, I hit between 600 and 2200 damage, the average hit landing at or below 1000. My shots take me 5.9 seconds, but I only have rifle speed +40, I don't notice a whole lot of difference. Using this same rifle, I will get off between 12 and 14 shots before I have to sit and regen my mind pool. How do you think you should factor *that* into dps? What about the fact that after a max of 3 shots, my target chases after me (if melee, as most targets are). When they chase me, I have to run, and then my fairly decent accuracy falls to unacceptable, but I'm still using my mind trying to shoot specials. If I get hit, then I really get wholloped.
Normally though, I will use my DLT20a rifle because of it's relatively low HAM costs. My mind being maxed out, I can generally fire off in excess of 30 MS3s. But that rifle does a MAX of 989 damage, and is not armor piercing. So again, I'm not really sure what makes you think that 1800 - 2500 damage is normal. If that were the case, I'd be taking down some big game!
Again I would like to ask you, what are typical tactics used by Bounty Hunters to take down their big-bad-red-con prey?
Also, Eyeshot should have a 3x multiplier to damage, which means the absolute maximum you should be doing is 4.5x the listed maximum damage. You should be doing over 600 at maximum in PvE (neglecting armor/resists) if you have a decent scatter. 500 max is a max damage of 112 on the scatter pistol.
The fact is, whether you like it or not, that bounty hunters are the class that is designed specifically for PvP, thus we are the best at it, and we are worse at PvE than any other combat profession.
We trade off the ability to get more money, more faction points, and faster experience, since all those things come from PvE, along with the ability to do anything else profession wise to be the best at PvP.
So yeah, we give up quite a bit.
After this study, the cries for nerf in this honestly fall on deaf ears.
You are a PvE driven profession who is angry that you lose a PvP contest with a PvP profession.
Here's the thing: We are bounty hunters. We hunt down people and we kill them. Period. That is what we do.
What I would suggest is that you enjoy your superiority in PvE, but if you are engaged in PvP and see a bounty hunter, you need to run.
Don't like it? Want to be the best at PvP AND PvE? Too bad? Want to be good at PvE? You have several profession choices. Want to be the best at PvP? You have one profession choice.
I didn't write the Star Wars universe. I didn't develope the game. This is fact. Your DPS is twice what ours is in PvE, ours is twice what yours is in PvP. It's fair. It's even.
Let me ask this, though. Do you expect us to pay tripple the cost for our profession and be inferior in every way? If so, wake up.
Your comment that all my posts were good until that one is simply a statement of "You made it look like we might get what we want, and now you say we shouldn't get everything we want." Too bad.
What if I'm a BH and want to be as good at PvE? Well, then you could say the same thing to me: Too bad.
The statements that a BH can take down several people at once with eyeshot is absolutely ridiculous, unfounded, and blind. No, we can't. Well, if those several people are not shooting us we can, but if they just stand there and die that's their problem.
If you are alone and you see a BH while overt, and they are the oposite faction, you better run. If you are with a team and the same happens, you better have enough teamwork to concentrate on the BH until that BH falls.
That, as they say, is the way it is.
What will make me become as hostile as some other BHs is if, knowing that you outdamage us the same in PvE as we do in PvP, you continue to scream nerf. That would insinuate you're selfish and arrogant, and only really care about how "uber" you are.
Want to be the best at PvP? You have one choice. Want to be great at PvE? You have several choices.
This is now a moot topic.
And to address the question, that rifleman was third level skills across the board, which is the closest to my skills as I could find.
I am a 0-1-2-2 BH. If I could have found a 0-1-2-2 rifleman, I would have, but the closest I could get was 3-3-3-3. As far as the rifle he was using, I haven't got a clue. I don't use rifles, so I am about as clueless as a newbie about which ones are better or why, outside of those in the marksman tree.
Simply put, you will always have an upper hand over us when it comes to getting in a PvE group. If you have ever played any MMORPG before, you know that is a big deal. You will always have the advantage when it comes to hunting for experience.
We will always have to advantage when it comes to PvP. That is just the way it is. You can't expect people to pay tripple the skill point cost to be inferior in every way. For that price, there has to be SOME sort of benefit.
Now, if you find a problem with the BH profession that allows us to outdamage you in PvE, we have another issue. Then and ONLY then do you actually have an issue with an imbalance with our class on your hands.
To those who say the skill point cost argument is old: Get over it. That is the dumbest statement I have ever read on these boards. I guess if I pay three times the cost for a car as what you paid for yours I shouldn't expect a car that is better in one way or another in your world.
If you're jealous, too bad. Maybe the whole BH community should start whining about getting YOU nerfed because you do better than us in PvE.
If we're a PvE class, why does the correspondant report response specifically say that our advantage is that we can hit an unhealable pool?
Actually, riflemen suck at PvE until master. Even then they still suffer from longer down times than pretty much any other class. Where do you get the idea that Riflemen are a PvE class?
Bounty Hunter = PvP period.
The ONLY reason you say my argument falls apart is becase I disagree with you, and because you cannot accept the facts.
How is it that the only post I made in this thread with actual data taken from in game after actually STUDYING the situation, instead of only listening to people is the one that's crap?
You know what? You want to do thousands of points of damage in PvE without even being seen by the mob, and be able to kill bounty hunters in PvP TOO? Too bad. If you continue to whine after hearing these facts, you sound like nothing other than spoiled children.
Also, what in the world gives you the idea that BHs are a PvP class? There are no player bounties. BHs have no PvP specific specials. Riflemen do have PvP specific specials.
What data are you talking about? You reported one instance of what you 'felt' was the situation (what was the average damage? The delay between attacks? The standard deviation? The number of trials? What was the methodology?) which doesn't qualify as data.
No, the reason we say your argument falls apart is because you cannot deal with the rebuttals. Please explain how you 'know' BHs are supposed to be the PvP class. Please explain how riflemen are better in PvE but not PvP. Please explain why the correspondant report response says the rifleman advantage is that we can target an unhealable pool.
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=pistoleer&message.id=14370
Meyree,
I don't know how this thread about Eyeshot got hijacked in to a debate about viable PvP professions, but anyway..
We don't want to see anything change about Eyeshot except that when a BH uses it, it drains from the mind pool. No change to damage, speed, etc, just the pool that it draws from so that it puts BH on par with the other Mind Damage dealing professions.
If this is done, then the Eyeshot spammers would just think a little more conservatively about how they use it.
Now in regards to your last post, this is a game that lots of people play, with lots of different tastes. The end game seems geared toward PvP, and knowing that lots of people with lots of different tastes play, I don't think the developer vision was for an all Bounty Hunter PvP end game. SO, if right now, BH is the only choice for viable PvP as you said, I would expect to see some real changes soon, and it is going to have nothing to do with Eyeshot, what Riflemen think, or PvE.