Rifleman Archive
Thread: I am Confused.. Why the Rifleman calls for Pistoleer changes?
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Scylla
Well the #1 issue with Carbineers is HAM costs so maybe they're focused on that. The Knockdown nerf hit them hard. Before that, carbine was a pretty powerful class because they were the kings of knockdown/posture change. Like Pistoleer they also have a ton of specials that don't work, that suck, or are broken in some way.
You're right, though ... I haven't heard much from them at all, it's weird. Maybe it's because there are so few Carbineers? *shrug*
I personally think Carbineers should be the Crowd Control class and status effect class.
AOE Snares or Roots (leg shot)
shhh dont tell my rifleman brothers but i think a lot of our AOE attacks should go to them. (ducks the bricks)
Such a thread would die soon as a pistoleer who didnt understand rifle.. or a rifle who doesnt know anyting about pistoleer starts talking out there ass like in all threads.
youd almost have to make it private by invite only lol
I DO want higher range... for these reasons:
1 - x2.5 melee dmg. When fighting creatures, this kills you almost every time.
2- ANYTHING can run 64m within the time it takes to get off your next shot, once they notice you.
3 - at short range, or even most any ragne under 40m, you can't hit the broad side of a barn with a rifle.
4- all these things combined mean that a Rifleman gets off 2-3 shots (if under Cover and using Mask Scent, mostly, while prone), then is aggro'd and is in melee combat b4 he can get off a third. That makes him change posture to at best kneeling, take extra damage, and unable to hit the rushing creature anymore due to the awful accuracy while at point blank range. This means that the best tactical option is to change weapons at this point...thus the concpet of being a rifleman becomes moot.
DisplacedSurfeR wrote:I for one cannot hit anything with DX2 at 60 meters....
If this is true, then you won't mind if they incrase the max-range penalty on Pistols. Since you're not hitting anything at 60 meters anyhow, it wouldn't bother you to have a greater chance not to hit at that range. Since as you say, you can't hit anything from there anyhow.
Or would that not be the case?
And, for the record, I resent the fact that you chose the DX2 to make this point with. First off, the accuracy on the DX2 is broken. It has one of the shortest "ideal" ranges of any gun in the game, and the "ideal" range is actually LESS accurate than the "point blank" range. I agree that that needs to be fixed on the DX2 pistol. You're using a gun you know has unusually poor accuracy (due to a bug) as an example of why your accuracy is fine the way it is. Unacceptable.
The DX2 has the LOWEST accuracy of every pistol in the game. It has roughly a -90 chance to hit at 60 meters. In fact, if you graph the ranges listed on the gun, the DX2 has THE SINGLE LOWEST CHANCE TO HIT AT MAX OR IDEAL RANGE of every pistol in the game. However, it's a Disruptor Pistol, and is supposed to be like that. It has a +20 chance to hit at 0 meters. It is your "special shots at 0 meters" pistol.
A better comparison would be the FWG5. It still has a negative chance to hit at 60 meters, sure. But not nearly as bad as the DX2. How often do you miss with the FWG5 at 60 meters? I know my Smuggler (who only has Pistol IV) can kite Banthas (4K-7K HAM) at range with the FWG5.
1) Stand 60 meters away
2) Spam Bodyshot2
3) Turn around
4) Run
Sure not every shot hits. But enough of them do. I don't want to hear about real-world mechanics for pistols unless I can have real-world mechanics for the other guns. Which I cannot. If the maximum range in the game is 64 meters, then all guns must be ratio-ed to scale within those 64 meters.
But as I said, if you guys aren't hitting anything at 60 meters anyhow, why bother fighting against a reduction in long-range accuracy? it won't affect you, since you don't do it. That would be like Riflemen saying, "No! No! Don't nerf our accuracy at point blank!"
DisplacedSurfeR wrote:
Dx2
Long mod -90
t21
Short mod - 90
wow would you look at that
I'm getting a little sick of reading these replies since I came into the discussion late so excuse me if this has been said already.
Yes, on auto attack, pistols are very bad with long range. However, using "styles" like Body Shot 2, there seems to be a huge bonus to accuracy, making pistols viable weapons at long range. I know, I have Pistols IV. Look at my sig. If I am at my pistols max range and am kiting an enemy on auto attack, I miss 7 or 8 out of 10 times. If I use body shot 2, I hit 7 or 8 out of 10 times. This is the problem, others have said it, others have tested it and I have run my own informal tests to validify the statements.
So we have a few choices to remedy the situation. I will only list 2. Give no to hit modifiers for weapons at their extreme ranges or include min/max range caps using specials.
I have the sinking suspicion that specials have a simple + accuracy modifier that affects accuracy across the board, instead of at certain ranges. If this is the case, a revamp of the whole system is needed, OR if that is impossible, then this is where range caps for specials come into play.
I'm not commenting on anything else at this time, 'cause I have no time..
Think it would work if the Carbineer was a "debuff" class.
Like say for instance im (rifleman) fighting someone in PVP and have my carbineer cousin with me. Say he has a Shot that Debuffs our opponents head so that im able to do more damage.
he could have Debuffs for pistoleers too although i think debuffing his own attacks would be a little much. Besides the whole AOE crowd control status effect "gods"
what do ya think?
Come to think of it, why can't there be a Ranger/Rifleman combo to be on par with BH/Pistoleer... but then I'm a bit biased... 
... and how can they haveaccess to CH? I thouught their skillpoints were so limited (as according to any BH you talk to)