Rifleman Archive
Thread: The poop on the Combat rebalance, someone FINNALLY got answers from Fan Fest.
Are the new HAM pools going to be affected by secondary stats, focus/willpower, etc.?
They said yes
DomMantell wrote:
Are the new HAM pools going to be affected by secondary stats, focus/willpower, etc.?
They said yes
Interesting.
With mind damage becoming healable it looks like we're going to enter the realms of immortality.
Assuming mind heals are a medic skill using stim packs (damage stim packs that cure mind damage already exist in game and do work) and assuming that you've buffed your mind to the point where special actions like healing cost nothing you're going to find it tough to actually die.
Have the devs actually thought this through?
Can I get some of whatever the devs are smoking?
Stoindexter wrote:
Hell, just bring back the 2.5X Melee damage modifier, and leave us the hell alone.
Seflyn, Wherefore art thou, brother?
Back when Rifleman did get some loving, Seflyn was standing tall begging them NOT to take away the 2.5x melee penalty. I think the black nerf he feared back then is gathering substance in Mordor. I think if we had kept the 2.5x melee penalty we would not be in the nerf spotlight today.
WayneInAustin wrote:
Stoindexter wrote:
Hell, just bring back the 2.5X Melee damage modifier, and leave us the hell alone.
Seflyn, Wherefore art thou, brother?
Back when Rifleman did get some loving, Seflyn was standing tall begging them NOT to take away the 2.5x melee penalty. I think the black nerf he feared back then is gathering substance in Mordor. I think if we had kept the 2.5x melee penalty we would not be in the nerf spotlight today.
It would not be practical to put it back in. The melee professions have been improved and many can put out some impressive damage. As a TKA I can hit for close to 2k. Swordsmen have an AP2 weapon with base damage of mid 400's.
Factor in that they will be able to catch any Riflemen running, the delay in switching weapons, and adding in a 2.5X melee penalty and you are incapp'd in two hits. While the toughness skill of the melee professions lets them reduce the damage taken (so they can tank). End result is bye-bye Riflemen in an encounter. Not to mention what would happen to Commandos.
No, the 2.5X melee penalty had to go.
ok im going to back out of this dabate, because you dont seem to want to give even just a little. What i will say is that, either rifleman has to change or everyone else has to be broguht up to par, and quite frankly its easier to just nerf riflemen. I mean the devs dont want to have to increase everyones combat proficiency only to have to rebalnce it for pve again.
I get the feeling you want riflemen to be just how it is right now, no changes.I as a bounty hunter have felt the wrath of the nerf bat more times than i care to count and i know it hurts to see your "uber a$$" being brought back into line. But the thing is the truth hurts, rifleman is overpowered, they need to be balanced, deal with it or move on. Surely ull be happy that your profession is no longer fotm?
alternativly you could of course continue to cry andwhine, whichmany bounty hunters do also, or you can wait patiently for combat rebalnce to see what it all brings, because quite frankly anything we say here is just speculation anyway.
Message Edited by DarkShade9 on 06-07-2004 09:42 AM
DarkShade9 wrote:alternativly you could of course continue to cry and whine, which many bounty hunters do also, or you can wait patiently for combat rebalnce to see what it all brings, because quite frankly anything we say here is just speculation anyway.
The "wait and see" mentality leads to devs implementing horrible ideas because no one offers any better suggestions until the crap is already implemented and it's too late to fix it.
Of course, even with massive amounts of negative feedback, they might ignore the players, delete the anti posts, and leave the broken system that everyone hates. But that's no reason to give up - we need to keep posting against any crap changes and pray that they'll actually read it and not go on a deleting spree.
DarkShade9 wrote:
ok im going to back out of this dabate, because you dont seem to want to give even just a little. What i will say is that, either rifleman has to change or everyone else has to be broguht up to par, and quite frankly its easier to just nerf riflemen. I mean the devs dont want to have to increase everyones combat proficiency only to have to rebalnce it for pve again.
I get the feeling you want riflemen to be just how it is right now, no changes.I as a bounty hunter have felt the wrath of the nerf bat more times than i care to count and i know it hurts to see your "uber a$$" being brought back into line. But the thing is the truth hurts, rifleman is overpowered, they need to be balanced, deal with it or move on. Surely ull be happy that your profession is no longer fotm?
alternativly you could of course continue to cry andwhine, whichmany bounty hunters do also, or you can wait patiently for combat rebalnce to see what it all brings, because quite frankly anything we say here is just speculation anyway.
Message Edited by DarkShade9 on 06-07-2004 09:42 AM
Sorry, but the Rifleman profession has hardly even changed since launch. But we didn't hear a bunch of nerf cries in August so I don't want to hear it. Nerfing Rifleman does absolutely nothing to help the game until armor and buffs are dealt with. And if you think that he only way to balance professions is through DPS, then you are just a fool. You are also a fool if you think that a sniper can ever exist in this game.
It is pretty clear that mind is going to be healable, and that armor is getting nerfed. Your main argument seems to be that "Riflemen hit an unhealable pool through a player's armor". Seems like that will soon change...
DarkShade9 wrote:
ok im going to back out of this dabate, because you dont seem to want to give even just a little. What i will say is that, either rifleman has to change or everyone else has to be broguht up to par, and quite frankly its easier to just nerf riflemen. I mean the devs dont want to have to increase everyones combat proficiency only to have to rebalnce it for pve again.
It isn't about Riflemen being overpowered. Riflemen have been about the same since launch. Other than having the 2.5X melee penalty removed and a couple specials fixed they haven't changed. So why are Riflemen being considered overpowered? It isn't Riflemen. It's armor, buffs, stims.
Armor : Back in release you rarely saw armor. There were no buffs so the encumberance was a major trade off in this regard. People say the Jawa is overpowered because armor is now running in the 80% resist range but only having 40% vs Stun. Yet the Jawa has not changed. People want to be invulnerable of course. So they want to be 80% resist vs everything
Buffs : When buffs came out they allowed the use of the high end armor. It negated the penalties for using it. They were also easy to come by. Just go to the local Doc and get a set of buffs.However at first you could not buff Mind. So in PvP the Mind became the favored target for the obvious reasons. Also the Riflemen abilities were offset with very high HAM costs. In the past you could fire about 10 specials before you were drained. Like armor, buffs negated this penalty getting rid of the major disadvantage Riflemen had. Later you had great foods come out and Dancer/Entertainer buffs. However these buffs still did not equal Doc buffs making the Mind still the weakest pool usually.
Stims : The trend that started it. When stims came out it became easy to heal your Health and Action pools. This made the Mind pool the one to target since it could not be healed in PvP. Also it allowed those professions with weapons that didn't primarily rely on the Mind pool to spam specials with impunity.
I get the feeling you want riflemen to be just how it is right now, no changes.I as a bounty hunter have felt the wrath of the nerf bat more times than i care to count and i know it hurts to see your "uber a$$" being brought back into line. But the thing is the truth hurts, rifleman is overpowered, they need to be balanced, deal with it or move on. Surely ull be happy that your profession is no longer fotm?
The truth is that Riflemen are NOT overpowered. It's Armor, Stims, and Buffs that are overpowered. But because of the law of unintended consequences it made Riflemen more favorable. We do want Riflemen most to stay the same. It's a working profession. One of the few probably.
alternativly you could of course continue to cry andwhine, whichmany bounty hunters do also, or you can wait patiently for combat rebalnce to see what it all brings, because quite frankly anything we say here is just speculation anyway.
Just because we disagree with you and others does not mean we are whining or crying.What we are doing istrying to show people that the problem isn't with Riflemen. It's with other things that were changed. We can also try to show them that it makes no sense to take a working profession and bringing it down to the level of the broken ones. All that will do is mean everyone is broken and unlikely to get fixed.
But of course it is easier to point to Riflemen and say "nerf them!" if you are not one then say "hey, my armor, buffs, and stims are the cause, not Riflemen". That's because people want to nerf others, not themselves.
You are right about everything being speculation. It's because the Devs will not release any info on the "combat rebalance". But have you ever wondered why? Could it be because they know how badly it will be received? Maybe. But regardless, we were promised better communication when the forums were redone. It's yet another promise that has been badly broken.
Waste hit it all on the head.
Now some people are going to say "Nerf Buffs/Armor? I do not want PVP to last only a few seconds!"
Yes you do liar. It's exciting when PVP is quick and dangerous, when not paying attention can cost you your life. The Best PVP I have experienced in this game was when I was a n00b ass rifleman on Starsider with a DL20a rifle no 75% PVP reduction, no armor,and no buffs(only spice). That got your heart pumping, that was exciting PVP. Now PVP can last forever if your a doctor, where's the fun in that?
PyscoJuggalo wrote:
Just for emphasis, also another confirmation post
InfluenzaSWTA wrote:
-Repost of the original post-
As to the highlighted:
How you dumb ass dev? How the hell am I going to sit around and pick off people when all a pistoleer is going to have to do is TAB me and kill me from the same distance(While they can run around too).
Oh BTW looks like we are going to be imobile too(Dave also had a cool scenario involving a Rifleman having to set up his position before becoming extremely powerful).
The Dev's better come on and explain what the hell their plan is in detail, because unless we are missing a whole lotta info from the combat balance(like stealth or increased range or whatever) it sounds like we are gonna be worthless.
TH, Q-3PO, Friggin this Dave, whoever, better give us the low down and no more of that wait for the combat balance BS
I would completely go with this if and only if we did triple the damage, had an improved cone of attack (basically double the size),specials shot at1 per second with normal fire at 4 per secondand access to a area suppression to force players on a posture down. Now, technically speaking the term strafe would qualify as a "suppression" type fire but isn't nearly as effective as it should be at forcing posture down. One of the key assets of light repeaters, machine guns, and any type of support personal who operate is to lay down as much fire as possible in a designated area. Remember the Rifleman profession classifies us as both a gunner and sniper though as Waste has pointed out many times we're not given the range and stealth needed to be considered snipers.
Currently there is no noticeable benefit for lowering your posture during combat and this is especially so with PvP. The last time I tried to take cover (for added defense bonuses along with accuracy) and fire from a prone position I did more harm to myself than if I were to have bum rushed the attacking group. Not only was take cover considered tumbling (before a fix and you can't pull specials while you're "tumbling") but your HAM regen goes to **edit** while prone. How this figures in I'll never understand as if you're in a fixed position your HAM should regen faster than if you're up and running around.Really it would make more sense if player movement and continued combat produced lower regen rates.
Oh and on a side note to those who are too lazy or unwilling to read up on the T-21 and some of its specs, here's a repost of LodinnMalignitas's post as this is a quick description of the weapon.
BlasTech T-21 Light Repeating Blaster
Larger and more powerful than the typical blaster rifle, the BlasTech T-21 Light Repeating Blaster is the largest weapon that can be carried and used by one soldier. Primarily used in large-scale military actions, it provides support for Imperial army and stormtrooper squads as well as cover for artillery gunners. Because it is a portable weapon, it became popular among Rebel factions and is still used by some New Republic units.
At 1.5 meters in length, the T-21 is perfect for soldiers who need to set up a weapon quickly and with minimal fuss. Along with a belt-mounted tripod and a backpack generator (weighing 20 kilograms), the T-21 can be set and ready to go within 30 seconds. Although it can be wielded by a single soldier two-handed, use of the tripod improves its accuracy out to its maximum range of 300 meters.
The T-21 is capable of being powered by a power pack, but it only contains enough energy for 25 shots. However, use of the backpack generator provides near unlimited ammunition, but its firing rate is limited to one shot per second due to the generator's low cooling capacity.
The power behind the T-21's blaster bolts is amazing, being known to penetrate infantry armor, personal forcefields and even armor plating of light combat vehicles.
HalasterTheBlack wrote:
LOL! You can tell this is the Rifleman forum... and that some of you have zero objectivity... gems:
[snip]
I don't know about you, but I would have to say that snipers in the U.S. military today do NOT shoot accurately at 1 shot per second. They sit, wait forever, get *just* the right shot, and that's it. If they miss, they're done. They leave. Usually quickly.
If it were not so obvoiusly self-serving, your hypocracy would almost be funny. Oddhow everyone has this fantasy view of military snipersas being stuck using Springfield '03 Rifles, technology that, even to us, is over 100 years old. But in case you have not noticed, there is no Springfield '03 rifle in this game, just like no character is a Green Beret, a Navy Seal, or other U.S. Military unit because this is notBattlefield 1942 or even Battlefield Vietnam. And the truth is, even if it was, if no sniper could shoot accurately at 64m at the rate of 1 shot per second, how in the world do you expect a someone shooting a pistol while on the run to shoot accurately at the rate of 1 shot per second?
This is not about U.S. Military snipers. It is not about weapons and tactics used by military snipers. In fact, if you had bothered to read the discussion that has appeared on this board everytime someone suggests that we are only snipers, you would find reasons why sniping in this game is impossible.
But that does not stop you from coming out from under your bridge suggesting that our role is to shoot at a really slow rate of fire. Of course, you never want to give us the other things that go along with that. When a sniper does shoot at that really slow rate of fire, if he does his job right,he gets to move in undetected. He gets to kill his target in one shot. And he gets to move out undetected.
Funny how you never mention that or the fact that those aspects will never be put into this game. Why? Because the nerf-hearding ubber leet dudes who want to run around spamming pistol shots, as if war was about running around in circles shooting as fast as you can rather than diving behind the biggest rock you can find for protection, would scream nerf the first time they got killed and could not figure out where it came from.
But since you are so concerned about the rate of fire and accuracy of Starwars rifles, here is one quote regarding the T21:
While the T-21's standard power packs supply only enough energy for twenty-five shots, its separate continuous-feed power generator gives the weapon potentially unlimited fire capability, although the generator's low cooling capacity in turn limits the fire rate to once per second.
This weapon is devastating against infantry, wielding enough power output to slice easily through personal armour suits or break down force fields. The T-21 also can cut through the armour plating used on many light combat vehicles, such as armoured landspeeders. In the hands of a skilled operator the T-21 can eliminate an entire enemy squad in a matter of seconds.
Thus, at its slowest speed, it is "limited" to one shot per second, and "in the hands of a skilled operator, "this "sniper weapon" can take out an "entire enemy squad in a matter of seconds."
Hmmm...Does not sound like the idea behind the T21 is to crawl through an open field in a Ghillie suit to setup that one time, one shot-kill shot, does it? And it does not sound like the T21 has any problem firing fast and accurate if it can take out entire squads in a matter of seconds.
There is no and never willbe sniping in this game because sniping cannot occur without stealth and without distance, neither of which will be introduced into the Rifleman's arsenal. But even if that were not the case, we are not dealing with bolt-action rifles or even modern U.S. Military weapons and tactics.
Rifleman is working, sure. A little too well. So are a lot of other profs while a lot of them are completely NOT working.
Rifles are and can only be the infantry, gunners, which is also part of our build. Due to our lack of defenses against states, laughability of trying to survive by going prone in PvP, and the ridiculously short distances invovled in this game, high damage due to high speed and heavy hitting weapons are what we are about, but trolls like you would never understand that because you think that you are supposed to have the same DPS as us, but want nothing of our weaknesses. Other professions are working? Ask Commandos if they think their professionis working. Ask Pistoleers or Smugglers if they think their professions are working. Ask Pikemen and Carbineers if they think their professions are working. Please! If they would stop balancing by taking away and start giving, Rifles would not be "overpowered."
But all this is pointless. They are going to try to make us snipers at 64m, and none of it will work. So go back under the bridge. You have won.
[snip]
Message Edited by Sotaudi on 06-07-2004 03:06 PM