Rifleman Archive
Thread: Ghillie suit proposal
*Lack of an edit button*
Okay, I think you answered my Q above, we wouldn't be selectable...but here's my big beef with it:
Now assuming these skills are fixed: make takecover (massive ranged defense and concealment bonus?), concealshot(low-aggro shot?), supriseshot(massive damage shot?) and snipershot(deathblow shot?) REQUIRE wearing a ghillie suit. The quality of the suit determines the bonus to these skills.
Big no no....
a) Not all Riflemen are part artisan
In order to get those Camo gear for Rangers we need to get certain flora...I don't have the skill points to get resources like that just for my Rifleman, and SO I CAN USE MY ATTACKS WHICH I ALREADY SHOULD BE ABLE TO USE
b) Just have it increase the damage or stats to the attack, NOT a requirement for them
If you're PvPing and want to snipershot someone, but you don't have a ghillie suit, then you can't....lame. It should merely be an add on, not a requirement...no class is required to have something equipped to use an attack, or at least, as far as I know (sans the certain gun...that's just plain common sense). Let's not ruin Riflemen and make them the first, yeah?
All in all this Ghillie suit sounds good, just make sure it is merely an option, not a requirement. People don't want to have to be Artisans and get surveying up just to be able to use their attacks, and they definitly don't want to always be in one of those suits, because Riflemen aren't always in those Ghillie suits.
there is a lot of posts...and frankly im tired and its late 
...
BUT! ...i do want to say that i think this should only work in Prone, the invisi radar thing that is ....then its kind of a Ranger / Rifleman skill ...since Rangers have been askin for it too ...
i would go into more detail...but im tired
I doubt if Rangers will everget an invis to PC's/NPC's AND creatures. Their camo skills should be onlygeared towards hunting creatures...and thisis how they are gonna be implemented with the new /conceal and hunting blind additions, unless im very mistaken. Stems from the same reasoning that their new tracking skill will onlywork on finding specific creatures (otherwise they would bemoving into skill lines more appropriate to BH - ie tracking PC's/NPC's).
Gotta wait till the devs get back to us on what their take on the whole ghillie suit idea is.. I think it was submitted in the last list that Aldeon sent. They would presumably cover whether radar invis will ever be included.. be it to our class, oranother. Personally im now doubtful 
I think this is one of the most intelligent and constructive suggestions that I have ever heard for the Rifleman. It is in line with the true nature of the Rifleman(Scout, Sniper). Why shouldn't the Rifleman have this sort of camo? It could be a variation or combination of masked scent and masked "sight". The idea that you would have to completely disappear from radar is not necessarily a given. Have you ever shot multiple "bunnies" and go looking for the "X" on the map and swear you can not find the exact location of the downed fur ball? You know you are in the right area but you just can't find the thing? Couldn't the Ghillie suit upon first fire, have that sort of "Ok, I am over here somewhere" effect on the radar? But the target could just as likely walk right by you giving you a chance to sneak off? If they ever fix conceal shot to keep your target's buddies in the dark as well as the target you could be concealed moving about undetected and sniping your target at will. I like it.
I love my ghillie suit! My friends and I made a set of them for a school paintball outing. We were called the sniper squad. 
We kept them in back packs till we were all set up in the woods, then scared the **edit** out of the assit-principal and the rest of the other team. They never saw it coming.
And thats one of the reasons I would love for this to be added to the game. Using my skills and rifle (T-21! I've got a T-21!) to the fullest extent. Great post. We can only hope that they'll at least consider it.
Many rangers (myself included) think that vanishing from the radar should be a ranger ability. I love the idea of a ghillie suit as a rifleman though. What if there was a simple way to add stealth? Instead of making it so that the enemy is unaware of you just make it so that they don't know quite where you are. By making the graphics correctly for the ghillie suit and making it so that wearing one keeps you from being tab selected you are virtually invisible anyway.
Add in a master level ranger ability to vanish from radar and you have a very potent sniper/scout that isn't easy to achieve. Wearing the ghillie suit would preclude any armor, but at this level wouldn't need many other downsides, though slowing someone down would be another reasonable downside. For PvP you don't need to be totally invisible (though it would help), hard to target is enough.
Much like ranger camo kits they could be planet specific so that you get just the right graphics for each planet. Having something this simple would add use and flavor without being overpowered, and would make those who take time to chose their spot well even harder to find.
Still unsure about being able to trade them and use other weapons with them. Both seem in flavor for a real ghillie suit, but would then require more downsides so that not everyone wears one all the time.
All i have to say is DONT FORGET THE WOOKIEE!!!! We cant wear non wookie stuff so IF you do make these, thenmake an alternate suit for wookies... We get giped enough with our low mind stats....
The big problem with selling the idea to the devs is the radar invisibility aspect of the suit. Why not change the way we look at this aspect.
Instead of removing us from the radar, we show as a neutral (blue) player to enemies while under the effects?
If we use conceal or surprise shot, we remain blue. If we use any other attack, we return to normal. This works with triggers already in the game, (cover, conceal shot, surprise shot, and the TEF functionality) It gives us the ability to take the initiaitve, and to stay apparantly conceled until we draw attention to ourselves. A smart player can still copensate for the ability (we are still targetable). It basacally gives almost everything we are asking for, without unbalancing the game.
If stalking in the open with no one else around, we should at a minimum get the first shot in. In groups, we are more inconspicuious on the radar. We are still visible, so we will still have to make use of cover. It give us a minor advantage, but complements our own tactics.
Additionally, if turrets can fire out to 70m, why cant rifles?
that is the ugliest ghillie suit ever !
no offense heres a good pic of a ghillie suit
https://secure.quixion.net/bushrag/store/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=28&PHPSESSID=1bb4169572a718035504eaccc8f28ef6
Just for grins & giggles, did a search for the history of the Ghillie suit on Google.
I was having trouble understanding how some Rangers felt as the Ghillie Suit should be a Ranger special ability. I figured I would try and get educated about where they came from, I always assumed that some scottish sharpshooters came up with it before WWI.. I was kinda right, but not exactly..
"Ghillie, is a Scottish word meaning Man. The ghillie suit was developed by scottish grounds keepers to catch clever poachers and was first used by British Lovat Scouts' Snipers during their great countersniper offensive of WWI."
Thats from http://www.x-treme-camo.freeservers.com/whats_new.html.
I know it is used by modern day military snipers throughout America & Europe. Good hunters also have their own version of camo suits, so I guess it could go either way. Although, I would say that the term "Ghillie Suit" is more associated with snipers rather than hunters.
Here are some more links about the history of the Ghillie Suit:
http://www.sniperworld.com/books/book_10.html
http://www.tacticalmarkers.com/ghille_suit_history.htm- This is a good one.
Here is a quote from it: "Modern ghillie suits are practically synonymous with snipers and sniping, so a little history of sniping should be included with any history of the suits. It appears that sniping evolved around the end of the 18th century (1780-1810) as a method of picking off valuable members of an opposing army. Before this time, weapons did not have the range and accuracy to reliably hit a man-sized target at ranges much more than 100 meters. Keep in mind that this was a very dishonorable way of dealing with your enemies -- no honor in picking off an enemy who is not even aware of being engaged in combat. Therefore, it was typically guerillas and rebels that began to employ sniping."
http://www.geocities.com/mazanga11/sniperpapers_url/Fghilliehist.htm- A hunter's origin bit of information.
http://www.ghillie.com/overview.htm
The gillie suit idea was obtained from Scotish games keepers who utilized gillie's to sneak up on poachers. The Bristish military were the first to use the gillie as a means to better snipe german snipers during WW1.
A law enforcement or military sniper trained in the art of fieldcraft,cover and concealment usually will employ a gillie suit in a static or fixed position which we call a sniper hide. The gillie is quite useless and offers no concealment when moving from position to position, unless of course you are moving in the sniper low crawl position (slow prone).
I think that gillies could be introduced into the game without tipping game play balance. Let me explain some of my ideas:
First, in game a rifleman with a gillie would or should be totally invisible to any other player when in a prone position and after taking cover. This invisibility to radar would continue until the rifleman moved in the upright position (standing, walking and running). Additionally, most snipers train to fire at the most one to two rounds from a sniper hide, at which time they move in the low crawl position to an alternate firing location to avoid detection. In game a rifleman with gillie and cover would be able to fire two rounds and remain covered and undetected, additional rounds would remove the invisibility. After firing one to two rounds, the rifleman would then have to move at least 25 meters to a new position in order to fire again in the undetected mode. This way in game rifleman with gillie's get the advantage of cover and concealment, but with the penalty of a drastically reduced rate of fire, as it is in the real world.
As a side note, playing a rifleman in this game has been fun, but I am a little peeved at the short ranges associated with rifle weapons in general. A good rifleman with a decent weapon should be able to reach out and touch someone at well over 500 meters, however in game rifle ranges are quite depressing.
Well that is my two sense on this subject, have fun, be safe.