Rifleman Archive
Thread: be honest.
Easy-Exanip wrote:
The best offensive skills coupled with the best defensive skills of ALL ranged classes.
Busted...
Ranged chart:
http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=44502
The only part of defense we are truly the best at is ranged and honestly I don't mind it if you guys lower this a bit but saying that we need an overall nerf does not exactly hit me as asking for this little modification but rather demanding us to have less damage, perhaps a 3 second cap and many other things that would"fix" us rather then fix us. As for offense, we are the damage dealers that is our role. Carbineers role is the KD'ers since they can AoE dizzy and KD to keep people down. Does this skill need to be buffed up? Maybe I'm no carbineer so I don't know.
Speed is way too much for the damage types you deal out.
Busted...
Damage types? We do cold with a rifle that is more or less worthless even though it is cold, stun which is overpowerful thanks to the shortsightedness in regards to armor and no other reason, and energy which is the most resisted attack. We were just given an acid rifle which we are supposed to have anyway as well as a kinetic (spraystick and tusken which they are lieing through their teeth to not fix) and that's it. The blast damage rifle is all just hearsay so I won't discuss it without a screenshot.
Ranged deathblows at every second, no one has a chance to heal any one in pvp.
Busted...
Well this just happens to be an icing attack that we are given, it may be somewhat unfair to not force people to walk the 50 meters but honestly I don't see how this ruins us in combat anyway. Melee characters get a deathblow in just as fast as we do thanks to their proximity and pistoleers can as well if they so choose to be point blank so it's a somewhat moot point.
Accuracy that is so good they can hit on the move. Riflemen have no accuracy while moving skill while many off the other class have this skill and yetr riflemen hit more often while moving. Not enough penalty for moving.
Busted....
did you ever think this was unintentional and is getting fixed by the devs/is a known issue? You just said so yourself we have the worst to hit while moving skills and yet we hit on the move more often. Shouting that this is a cause for us to be nerfed is somewhat assinine in my opinion since it is likely being looked into and fixed.
Armour piercing stun weapon.
Busted...
actually since it is a vulnerability we are attacking the AP has 0 effect on the damage or so I'm told and AP is broken, Keldarin himself has said as much awhile back. Plus why is it that stun is so overpowering? Because everything else in armor is resisted to such an incredible extent that it is simply baffling. I never knew a rodian could walk around with some AT-AT hull strapped on his back. Rather then nerf stun weaponry thanks to their being the only useful damage type why not make the other damage types useful? Give multiple vulnerabilities to armor and make them nowhere near as godly. Which, by the by,will help out all the other professoins except for armorsmith.
Sorry for the double post.
Message Edited by PsychoticChipmunk on 03-27-2004 12:02 AM
I think sevearl things just happen to work in riflemans favor.
1. Mind is unhealable.
2. Dancer and musicans buffs are hard to get.
3. Stun is the only damage hard to protect against.
So to fix this, we would first need to make mind healable, the combat pass is suppose to do this.
Make Mind buffs easier and comparable to doctor buffs.
Change the way armor works. One type of armor shouldnt protect against everything.
ubese should be the only one to get to 80% kintic and blast
Composite should be weak to stun, heat, electircy but 80% acid
Tantel should be 80% to stun and energy
and Ris should be able to get 80% to all
Message Edited by Ssedi on 03-27-2004 12:17 AM
Easy-Exanip wrote:
I do want a nerf, but not a total nuke the profesion for orbit nerf. Rifleman is the damage dealer of the battlefiled. A set piece. As of right now the riflemen have few penalties for moving and realy only suffer any to hit penalties at short range. The goal of this ranting is to make combat more group oriented, other classes are need to cover the weakness of the other professions, as of right now it is just smarter to bring extra riflemen and combat medics. Riflemen can kite way to easy, and this eliminates the need for other supporting professions you dont need pistoleers and carbineers to control the crowd while you set in place ,if you can shoot on the run. From what I have seen , a slight speed nerf would be neccessary, but riflemen should be given a large accuracypenalty for moving and shooting. The speed nerf should be slight the rifles should deal the damage out, but only when not moving.
Actually we have the lowest accuracy while moving modifier of all the elite professions, the fact that we seem to hit more often then others is either purely imaginary or a bug in the game and not an intended feature which is likely being worked out so that is not nerfing rifleman at all just complaining about 1 of the many bugs in this game.
As for the speed thing, a pure master rifleman fires strafe 2 at roughly once evey 2.5 seconds with an average T-21 so again this is not an issue with us but rather because dabbling in master marksman and spending a few million credits we can hit the speedcap. Well carbines and pistol can also hit the speed cap by using another profession as well as get more attacks etc. but regardless I don't mind if they were to make rifles fire a bit slower either I suppose as long as you are not meaning a speed cap. I can handle increasing the mods on the guns by a few seconds or lowering our speed mod but giving us an arbitrary3 second cap is beyond assinine.
I have been a Master Rifleman since late August. What I find hilarious is that Rifleman hasn't really changed at all but people keep acting like there was some patch out of no where that made us overpowered. It is really just a result of the whole game changing around us (for the worse IMO). Did the ranged defense help? Yes, but a pure rifleman isn't going to be very hard to hit without stacking. The accuracy helped but people were also easier to hit before (running wouldn't make you much harder to hit as it does now).
Has the Jawa changed? No. Has armor? Yes. It went from flimsy 30%-45% composite to 90%. But the Jawa is the problem? I never even used a Jawa until armor starting getting into the 70%+ range. It was Laser Rifle and T21 all the way.
Has Rifleman speed and damage really changed? No. And headshot has always hit the mind...
Rifleman used to suffer some real mind penalties for hitting the mind and even when not hitting the mind. That hasn't changed? What has? Food...it wasn't even good early on. Most riflemen didn't wear armor at all.Then it got better. Then the food system got revamped. Now there is BE Vasarian brandy and KD resist foods that negatesome of a Rifleman's true weaknesses. More Doctors than ever now too. And of course entertainers got some nice buffs added in whenever.Buffs are insane these days. Just makes the mind pool all the more important.
I remember when I actually feared those Smuggler Pistoleers with their ranged knockdown and their 950 damage last ditch shots. Its just so funny that there is nothing in the actually Rifleman profession that has changed that now prevents them from doing this. Like I mentioned...A pure Rifleman isn't even hard to hit.
Before all this stuff went in the game there weren't these "Rifleman is overpowered" posts. In fact, everyone sympathized with Rifleman and we were labeled a "gimp" class (at least at novice). Now, with nothing having changed, we are on the nerf block.What the hell?
What do you people think will come of Riflemen getting nerfed before other things (like armor and buffs/food) are adjusted first? PvP fights will go on forever until some combat medic runs in. Right now, with armor the way it is, Carbines and Pistols are pretty gimped. What the hell is accomplished by bringing Rifleman down to that level as well? So you see the "fix your profession instead of nerfing mine" argument is very valid. Other things need to be fixed that have absolutely nothing to do with the Rifleman profession. Do you want balance or do you want every profession to suck equally?
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easy-exanip wrote
I have seen master Riflemen defeat level 90 and higher missions in under 20 seconds.
Yah but my pistoleer friend can do it too.
Busted....
The best offensive skills coupled with the best defensive skills of ALL ranged classes.
haa, like 80 ranged defense is anything, a pure rifleman gets hit alot, and our secondary defense (block) is the worst of the 3, not that its working, and our status defenses is the worst.
Busted...
Speed is way too much for the damage types you deal out.
our best shot of straff 2 is at 2 seconds, unless we hit master marksman also, but then again we spend alot of skill points to reach just a little more speed.
Busted...
Ranged deathblows at every second, no one has a chance to heal any one in pvp.
ya so what, we cant kd anybody, we cant delay move anybody, and these moves rock
Busted...
Accuracy that is so good they can hit on the move. Riflemen have no accuracy while moving skill while many off the other class have this skill and yetr riflemen hit more often while moving. Not enough penalty for moving.
were suppose to have high accuracy, and we have the lowest to hit plus while on the move
Busted....
Armour piercing stun weapon.
ap dosent matter on vuln on armor
Busted...
I do see the over all picture, and I dont want any proffesion nerfed to worthless condition, but the way Rifleman is now, every other ranged combat profession is worthless. Take a look around, more riflemen than any other profession are being used. I dont want any profession to be worthless, but giving power to just one profession over the others is not good also. Constructive is what my previous post has been, I have stated the poor balance between other ranged professions. As for "the the make your own profession better" is a scapegoat defense for the power riflemen do have.
The creature handler nerf was necessary, you could take a few skill boxes and have has much power as a master creature handler. I was a master ranger for 4 mos. So yes I have played some gimped professions. I dont like tomake many nerf calls , but rifleman needs it. As a master carbineer I can defeat a level 95 difficult mission in 3-5 minutes, I have seen a master Rifleman defeat a level 90 mission in20 sec's. This I am not lying about and when this is brought to any riflemans attention you get the stock phrase," Get your own class fixed." Well BS, So I am making a stink about this.
And currently the dev's are making rifleman even more powerfull , blast damage rifles, good bye commando yet another profession that is elimated by the rifleman profession.
Best regards,
Easy-Exanip
That was a great post BaronJedi 5 stars 
.
It is true that very little has changed for riflemen since the opening. These changes have done little to effect the star wars community,but the changes they do make to help us then nerf us are just making things worse. The main example I have for that is melee defense.
First off, riflemen complained about taking 2.5x melee dmg and getting slaughtered by most med to high level creatures in the game. This was not only a rifleman issue, but a commando and BH issue as well. They first tried to help us by giving us more melee defense, but 50 melee defense didn't do a damn thing. They then took away the 2.5x melee dmg (which most masters at the time thought would be a bad idea and bring the nerf callers) and put in a bug that made us harder to hit while holding a rifle. This made us overpowered so they fixed the bug and now melee gets a bonus to hit against rifleman. They did all this but left the 50 melee defense, why? While holding a rifle the 50 melee defense does me no good since things have a bonus to hit me. The only time this helps is when you put down your rifle and use your other professions. So we havea good melee defense mod that only help out non riflemen stackers....I just thought that was stupid. If taking all our melee defense away would quiet the nerf callers so be it, take it away and we will not notice a change, only the stackers will.
The other change they made was to accuracy, and they just brought it into line with the other professions. Against creatures, not ranged defense PVP templates, pistoleers hit at 64m at least 90% of the time. We even had combat spam test data that we gave to the devs proving that a master pistoleer with BH was more accurate at long range than a rifleman was, and at close range we would miss 50% of the time. Rather than nerf pistol and carbine on this the devsdecided to bring us up to par with them. I admit that on the move we are more accurate than we should be, but I do still miss a lot while on the move with my dmg sliced weapons and have weapons specifically designed for accuracy for those hard to hit toons. I have never heard of other professions go to so much trouble to make the weapons they have work for them, they all seem to get dmg slices and wonder why they miss all the time.
Other than that they fixed a shot that only works in PVE and nerfed a rifle. Is it because of these small changes that riflemen went from being felt sorry for like pikemen to being the uber gods of the universe? I don't think so. If you look at what changes in the game brought about the need for riflemen and the flocking of the masses to our profession it is like Chipmunk said. Buffs and Armor. We are the only profession that can consistantly take on and defeat armored opponents because we happened to have a gun that bypasses the defenses. I think it's funny how a gun no one ever used before armor came out because it was so weak is now one of the strongest and most whined about weapons in the galaxy. Add to that the chef and entertainer buffs that allow us to spam some of the best specials in the game while wearing armor at absolutly no cost and that is why we are too strong.
Will a nerf to the riflemen fix the galaxy? No,it will just compound the problems everybody already faces.