Rifleman Archive
Thread: Are we Uber?
MarcoRenaldi wrote:
CairnTrenor wrote:
DarthKirby001 wrote:Exactly.
MarcoRenaldi wrote:I dont think any of us are complaining as that is the cost of our gun and we have grown to accept it. We do complain when idiots claim that we can spam our specials day in and out with no downside. That downside being that to actually get off a few shots we have to buffed with no ifs, ands , or buts about it.
For rifleman migrting stats is not just a good idea, it is almost mandatory. That is why you see so many unbuffed rilfeman walking around with 400 HA pools.
Once again I would just like to re-state that I am not complaining just explaining a downside to our prof
This is not just an downside for riflemen but for most proffesions.
Cairn Trenor
yes but the difference being everyone else can stim theres, meaning that any fool with novice medic can be fully healed in 2 stims. This makes it so that you can get by without buffs, and while you may want buffs in PVP you dont need buffs to shoot for more than 6 sec.
Not everyone got novice medic, and the problem here is that stim-b's can be used with only novice medic, IMO it should require higher medicine use skill.
Cairn Trenor
CairnTrenor wrote:
MarcoRenaldi wrote:
CairnTrenor wrote:
DarthKirby001 wrote:
Exactly.
MarcoRenaldi wrote:
I dont think any of us are complaining as that is the cost of our gun and we have grown to accept it. We do complain when idiots claim that we can spam our specials day in and out with no downside. That downside being that to actually get off a few shots we have to buffed with no ifs, ands , or buts about it.
For rifleman migrting stats is not just a good idea, it is almost mandatory. That is why you see so many unbuffed rilfeman walking around with 400 HA pools.
Once again I would just like to re-state that I am not complaining just explaining a downside to our prof
This is not just an downside for riflemen but for most proffesions.
Cairn Trenor
yes but the difference being everyone else can stim theres, meaning that any fool with novice medic can be fully healed in 2 stims. This makes it so that you can get by without buffs, and while you may want buffs in PVP you dont need buffs to shoot for more than 6 sec.
Not everyone got novice medic, and the problem here is that stim-b's can be used with only novice medic, IMO it should require higher medicine use skill.
Cairn Trenor
Exactly! The fact that you only need to spend SP on novice medic to stim away 500 points of dmg that is making the HA bars useless to attack.
hoenix"A 1500 point mind shot is impossible in PvP with standard weaponry. Either someone has a uber loot drop, or has a multi-sliced exploit gun if they're hitting for 1500 PvP. Against an unarmored opponent with no ranged mitigation and lets say a godly 1000 max damage T21 with HS3 and its 3.5x damage multiplier we have: 1000 x 1.5 x 3.5 x 0.25 = is still only a headshot of 1300.
Are we overpowered in the current SWG combat model? Oh **edit** yeah. Do we hit for 1500 PvP? Nope, not even close. Esp with the average crafted T21 coming in at 700 tops that brings headshots down to about 900. A good crafted jawa is going to have 400 max (assuming no loot drops used) so now we're down to 525 damage which can be reduced by mitigation (though it will cut through most armor).
If you say you got hit for 1500 damage by a rifleman since the 75% damage reduction went into place one of three things happened. You're lying, you have no ranged mitigation and were hit by someone with a phenominal loot drop/slice that has over 1100 max damage, or you were fighting an exploiter using a multi sliced gun."
Dude i know about reduction fool. Im saying your initial is 1500. Do the math with armour with 80 resists, which a t21 rips through so you dont get the 25 percent reduction you do about 110 every 2 seconds to an unhealable mind pool. Think about it if i have 2 vasarian brandies in me and buffs i cant use blue milk to heal. On average a given gamer has less than 1500 mind in pvp, because enthrallers and master musicians are hard to find on planets. So basically in 14 seconds you could take down a player with 4000 health 4000 action but because SOE made it hard to get mind buffs, a 1400 in mind. Do you see how this is unfair? Dont be blind, please.Now take into account you can do this from 60 meters away. Once again like i said, not your fault SOE. They made Health and action 30 seconds to uber buffs and made the mind 8-10 MINS for either stats or mind. So by making the pools uneven this lead to the inherent power of the CM and rifleman. Let me give ya an example, imagine if health wasnt buffable. Who do you think would rock in pvp? Well pistoleers, Commandos and any one else that had high health damage. Im saying if you guys dont want to get beat down with a nerf stick like the commando, figure out a solution or SOE is just going to nerf the beegeezes out of ya.
Ranelan
Master Commando - Colonel in the Imperial Forces
Ranelaen wrote:
"A 1500 point mind shot is impossible in PvP with standard weaponry. Either someone has a uber loot drop, or has a multi-sliced exploit gun if they're hitting for 1500 PvP. Against an unarmored opponent with no ranged mitigation and lets say a godly 1000 max damage T21 with HS3 and its 3.5x damage multiplier we have: 1000 x 1.5 x 3.5 x 0.25 = is still only a headshot of 1300.
Are we overpowered in the current SWG combat model? Oh **edit** yeah. Do we hit for 1500 PvP? Nope, not even close. Esp with the average crafted T21 coming in at 700 tops that brings headshots down to about 900. A good crafted jawa is going to have 400 max (assuming no loot drops used) so now we're down to 525 damage which can be reduced by mitigation (though it will cut through most armor).
If you say you got hit for 1500 damage by a rifleman since the 75% damage reduction went into place one of three things happened. You're lying, you have no ranged mitigation and were hit by someone with a phenominal loot drop/slice that has over 1100 max damage, or you were fighting an exploiter using a multi sliced gun."
Dude i know about reduction fool. Im saying your initial is 1500. Do the math with armour with 80 resists, which a t21 rips through so you dont get the 25 percent reduction you do about 110 every 2 seconds to an unhealable mind pool. Think about it if i have 2 vasarian brandies in me and buffs i cant use blue milk to heal. On average a given gamer has less than 1500 mind in pvp, because enthrallers and master musicians are hard to find on planets. So basically in 14 seconds you could take down a player with 4000 health 4000 action but because SOE made it hard to get mind buffs, a 1400 in mind. Do you see how this is unfair? Dont be blind, please.Now take into account you can do this from 60 meters away. Once again like i said, not your fault SOE. They made Health and action 30 seconds to uber buffs and made the mind 8-10 MINS for either stats or mind. So by making the pools uneven this lead to the inherent power of the CM and rifleman. Let me give ya an example, imagine if health wasnt buffable. Who do you think would rock in pvp? Well pistoleers, Commandos and any one else that had high health damage. Im saying if you guys dont want to get beat down with a nerf stick like the commando, figure out a solution or SOE is just going to nerf the beegeezes out of ya.
Ranelan
Master Commando - Colonel in the Imperial Forces
Heh, at least we agree on something. As far as the T21 vs 80% composite, we'll do a quick look see with my real gun vs that. 709 x 1.5 x 3..5 ..25 = 930. AP3 vs AR1 = 1.25 x 1.25 damage increase for 1454 damage total. Take off 80% for a max hit of 290. This doesn't take into account any mitigation, and the average is far lower than this, but probably higher than your 110. Also delay on HS3 isn't as bad as strafe2, so you could possible fire this at a little faster than 2 sec, depending on the gun.
The real issue isn't the T21 tho, its the jawa. I got a jawa hitting for 400 stun damage close to once a second (cause its a faster gun) and a majority of armor doesn't stop it at all. So thats 400 x 1.5 x 3.5 x .25 = a possible 525 damage that armor won't stop.
I mean really. How the developers designed a system where health and action is easily buffable and healable, all damage other than stun is easily blockable, and make a class that easily does stun damage to the mind is beyond me. Even with dancer buffs food, and spice that doesn't block the incoming stun damage. I'm starting to think the jawa should be electricity damage myself now to...
Ranelaen wrote:
"A 1500 point mind shot is impossible in PvP with standard weaponry. Either someone has a uber loot drop, or has a multi-sliced exploit gun if they're hitting for 1500 PvP. Against an unarmored opponent with no ranged mitigation and lets say a godly 1000 max damage T21 with HS3 and its 3.5x damage multiplier we have: 1000 x 1.5 x 3.5 x 0.25 = is still only a headshot of 1300.
Are we overpowered in the current SWG combat model? Oh **edit** yeah. Do we hit for 1500 PvP? Nope, not even close. Esp with the average crafted T21 coming in at 700 tops that brings headshots down to about 900. A good crafted jawa is going to have 400 max (assuming no loot drops used) so now we're down to 525 damage which can be reduced by mitigation (though it will cut through most armor).
If you say you got hit for 1500 damage by a rifleman since the 75% damage reduction went into place one of three things happened. You're lying, you have no ranged mitigation and were hit by someone with a phenominal loot drop/slice that has over 1100 max damage, or you were fighting an exploiter using a multi sliced gun."
Dude i know about reduction fool. Im saying your initial is 1500. Do the math with armour with 80 resists, which a t21 rips through so you dont get the 25 percent reduction you do about 110 every 2 seconds to an unhealable mind pool. Think about it if i have 2 vasarian brandies in me and buffs i cant use blue milk to heal. On average a given gamer has less than 1500 mind in pvp, because enthrallers and master musicians are hard to find on planets. So basically in 14 seconds you could take down a player with 4000 health 4000 action but because SOE made it hard to get mind buffs, a 1400 in mind. Do you see how this is unfair? Dont be blind, please.Now take into account you can do this from 60 meters away. Once again like i said, not your fault SOE. They made Health and action 30 seconds to uber buffs and made the mind 8-10 MINS for either stats or mind. So by making the pools uneven this lead to the inherent power of the CM and rifleman. Let me give ya an example, imagine if health wasnt buffable. Who do you think would rock in pvp? Well pistoleers, Commandos and any one else that had high health damage. Im saying if you guys dont want to get beat down with a nerf stick like the commando, figure out a solution or SOE is just going to nerf the beegeezes out of ya.
Ranelan
Master Commando - Colonel in the Imperial Forces
Once again I would like to point out that we HAVE to have our mind buffed and we know exactly how hard it is to get it buffed. Try some Vagerain Canape it gives 700 to you mind secondaries for 10 min.
AliVegas wrote:
making us bad up close will fix it, then when were far away we can own you cause you cant heal your mind fast, but when you come close you will pwner us
hey that is a great thought and what most of us want, the problem is a pistol can hit you easily from 64m, probably even better than wecan hit from 0m, but hey who wants to talk about that.
beamstalk wrote:
AliVegas wrote:
making us bad up close will fix it, then when were far away we can own you cause you cant heal your mind fast, but when you come close you will pwner us
hey that is a great thought and what most of us want, the problem is a pistol can hit you easily from 64m, probably even better than wecan hit from 0m, but hey who wants to talk about that.
Another problem with this is that most PVP starts around 30 meters due to LOS and buildings, so while our accuracy up close is too muc hthe devs need to keep this in mind.
BadMisterFrosty wrote:
I hate to see zillions of new rifleman, its good for app EXP I dont need anymore but....
All people say it, it might be true. Give it to me straight, is it true?
Of course it's true. People flock to where the power is.
The fix isn't just saying 'nerf Rifleman' or even 'fix everybody else then worry about Rifleman'. The fix is the combat balance which is supposed to give each profession a more defined role, and eventually reach a balance of power. It will be like a bulldozer that takes off some hilltops and fills in some valleys, leaving the landscape looking quite a bit different than before.
If the post from the lead combat designer back in September is any indication,Rifleman will be much more aboutgetting intoposition at the longest ranges andstrafing and sniping fromcover. Carbines will rule the mid ranges and be better atattacking on the run.
My 2c