Rifleman Archive

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Ackehece wrote:

Well then I can not help withyou Americansbeing wrong when it comes to the true ENGLISH (being from England sotechnically the correct version)language .

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Yes. But the automatic weapon is an American invention. Which means the American definition is the standard in this case.

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Ackehece wrote:

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Waste93 wrote:

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Ackehece wrote:

the funny thing about that is.... that is the Oxford English Dictionary definition - considered the best dictionary in the world by most eytmology majors but it is the abridged edition so it might be missing the major part of their definition.

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Could also be a difference between American English and British (Commonwealth) English. Wouldn't surprise me much if that was the case.

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Well then I can not help withyou Americansbeing wrong when it comes to the true ENGLISH (being from England sotechnically the correct version)language .

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Waste93 wrote:

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RebRifle wrote:

Carbines are rifles in classification the only difference between a rifle and carbine are they are more compaced, usually having a shorter barrel and folding stock. Also smaller rounds

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A carbine is not a rifle. Carbines existed before Rifles were in common use. The early carbines were used by mounted troops such as Dragoons and were NOT rifled. They were smoothbore, just like the muskets. At the time you had a far better chance of finding a Carbine in a military unit than you did finding a Rifle.

Nor do carbines use smaller rounds. The M16A2 (Assault Rifle) and the M4 (Assault Carbine) both use the exact same round. Same goes for the Soviet AK and their Carbineversions.Even in WWII the M1 Garand and the M1 Carbine both used a .30 round. Though the M1 Garand used a more powerful one (.30-06 vs .30 carbine). But that isn't a smaller round. Carbines and Rifles generally fire the same calibre. You may be thinking of SMGs (which would fall under Carbine in SWG) however those rounds are technically a larger calibre, they are however less powerful since they use Pistol ammo.

A carbine by definition has a shorter barrel (not usually, always). They are used in situations where size could be a hinderance such as vehicle crews, pilots, airborne, and cavalry troops. They are also used in CQB situations where their smaller size is more advantageous while their reduced range is less of a factor.

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Cpl wrote :

I can think of a machine gun, a rifle, and a carbine in regular use in the US armories that all fire not only all the same round, but can also all use the same magazine.

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SAW, M16A2, M4. You could also go back to WWII where we have

British : Bren (LMG), Lee Enfield No4 MkI (rifle), Lee Enfield No5 (carbine)

Soviet : DP (LMG), Mossin-Nagant 91/30 (rifle), M44 (carbine)

German : MG34 or MG42 (GPMG), Mauser K98k (rifle), Mauser K98k Mountain version (carbine)

All the above use the same ammo between the three groups. Even after the war you would commonly find this with the 7.62mm NATO asthis always helps simplify the supply situation.

I could have included the WWII US arms in there too. They all fired a .30 round. However the carbine fired adifferent cartridge (.30 carbine instead of .30-06). Don't know my Japanese weapons well enough. So they may have been included there too which would have been all the major powers with the same calibre between their machine gun, rifle, and carbine.

Go back to the smoothbore days and you will also find examples of muskets and carbines of the same calibre.

Message Edited by Waste93 on 02-03-2005 04:59 AM

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Waste, you were supposed to let someone else research and post that! But like you said you can take a 30 round M16A2 mag, fire 10 shots out of it with a M16A2 rifle, remove it, fire 10 rounds out of a M4 carbine out of it, and then place it in a M249 SAW (a LMG) and empty the reamining rounds out.

Oh by the way we still have M-60's laying around? Good Lord the Corps replaced them with M-240 Golfs for a while now, and we are usually at the short end of the stick to getting new equipment.

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Waste93 wrote:

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Cpl_Fisher wrote:

Waste, you were supposed to let someone else research and post that! But like you said you can take a 30 round M16A2 mag, fire 10 shots out of it with a M16A2 rifle, remove it, fire 10 rounds out of a M4 carbine out of it, and then place it in a M249 SAW (a LMG) and empty the reamining rounds out.

Oh by the way we still have M-60's laying around? Good Lord the Corps replaced them with M-240 Golfs for a while now, and we are usually at the short end of the stick to getting new equipment.

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As far as I know. The M60 is still one of the standard vehicle mounted MGs. At least until it's replaced by the FN MAG58. Not sure if they replace the M60s or just wait til those wear out and then switch them out. If the military works as usual then it will be the latter.

The military however won't throw away the M60's. They'll mothball them and store them 'just in case'. They still have crates of M1 Garands, M1 Thompsons, etc that they've done this with. Might not be in active use but they'll still be around, used for various training (ROTC units fore example) and second/third tier units (Reserves) until those get replaced also.

If not by US, then by other countries that they get sold at discount to. Some countries are still using WWII weaponry after all. Even the US (M2 for example).

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