Rifleman Archive
Thread: Bump this up if u will quit if rifle is as weak as it seems it will be after the revamp
XaverriJade7 wrote:
piezo wrote:
Riflemen could take a HUGE nerf and still come out considerably better than the other ranged professions.
Depends on the size of the nerf they give the other professions.
I was one for 6 or so months, and recently went carbineer/BH. I also played pistoleer early in the game.
I would say that the other two ranged professions have less than *half* the raw power of riflemen, ae or single target. Rifle weapons just have much higher damage, and have the added utility of stun dmg with jawa, and the ability to directly attack an unhealable stat.
We should have the most 'raw power'. Not everything should be balanced in the terms of power/defenses/speed/etc. but rather some professions will lack some things and make up for it with others. Riflemen have power, speed, ranged/melee(arguable) defense, and the Mind pool.The areasin whichwe are far inferior arestatus effects, status defenses, and secondary defenses.
Rifle is still dear to my heart so i don't really want to see it nerfed, but it definitely deserves it.
I agree
Yes, having everyone balance would be great, but right now, non-dot pvp is 90% jawa rifles spamming hs3. Yeah, its nice being behind the jawa. I know i enjoyed dropping people easily by hitting an unhittable pool with a dmg type that has fairly low resists, but after playing on both sides of that jawa, i can honestly say the imbalance is HUGE. Things need to be equalized, and it would probably be better if it was rifle coming down than carb/pistol coming up the rifle level. My reasoning for this is that longer fights are just plain more fun! Killing someone by just hitting them with hs3 4 times in 4 seconds doesn't give much of a rush. Its generally over before you know it. Not having the ability to kill your opponent in 4 seconds gives you more time to use different attacks and strategies, which is, well, more fun
Also, its pretty much agreed on by most people that the combat balance will nerf armor and buffs significantly. If they left rifle at its current level, that would basically mean that riflemen could oneshot anyone in pvp. With strafe2 its more like oneshotting 5 at a time. But if their damage output was put down closer to carbineer(still higher of course, and with higher AP. its a *rifle* after all), pvp would be a lot more fun, and longer lasting. Riflemen would still keep their edge in pve too.
I got kinda carried away in a rant here, but my core point is that pvp needs more diversity. Right now it really doesn't have it, because unless you are carrying a jawa, you are just an easy target. You can't deny that there are at least 10x as many riflemen now as there were 8 months ago. Bringing rifle down a notch so that it is not the only useful ranged pvp profession would probably bring a lot more people into the pvp part of the game.
piezo wrote:
XaverriJade7 wrote:
piezo wrote:
Riflemen could take a HUGE nerf and still come out considerably better than the other ranged professions.
Depends on the size of the nerf they give the other professions.
I was one for 6 or so months, and recently went carbineer/BH. I also played pistoleer early in the game.
I would say that the other two ranged professions have less than *half* the raw power of riflemen, ae or single target. Rifle weapons just have much higher damage, and have the added utility of stun dmg with jawa, and the ability to directly attack an unhealable stat.
We should have the most 'raw power'. Not everything should be balanced in the terms of power/defenses/speed/etc. but rather some professions will lack some things and make up for it with others. Riflemen have power, speed, ranged/melee(arguable) defense, and the Mind pool.The areasin whichwe are far inferior arestatus effects, status defenses, and secondary defenses.
Rifle is still dear to my heart so i don't really want to see it nerfed, but it definitely deserves it.
I agree
Yes, having everyone balance would be great, but right now, non-dot pvp is 90% jawa rifles spamming hs3. Yeah, its nice being behind the jawa. I know i enjoyed dropping people easily by hitting an unhittable pool with a dmg type that has fairly low resists, but after playing on both sides of that jawa, i can honestly say the imbalance is HUGE. Things need to be equalized, and it would probably be better if it was rifle coming down than carb/pistol coming up the rifle level. My reasoning for this is that longer fights are just plain more fun! Killing someone by just hitting them with hs3 4 times in 4 seconds doesn't give much of a rush. Its generally over before you know it. Not having the ability to kill your opponent in 4 seconds gives you more time to use different attacks and strategies, which is, well, more fun
Also, its pretty much agreed on by most people that the combat balance will nerf armor and buffs significantly. If they left rifle at its current level, that would basically mean that riflemen could oneshot anyone in pvp. With strafe2 its more like oneshotting 5 at a time. But if their damage output was put down closer to carbineer(still higher of course, and with higher AP. its a *rifle* after all), pvp would be a lot more fun, and longer lasting. Riflemen would still keep their edge in pve too.
I got kinda carried away in a rant here, but my core point is that pvp needs more diversity. Right now it really doesn't have it, because unless you are carrying a jawa, you are just an easy target. You can't deny that there are at least 10x as many riflemen now as there were 8 months ago. Bringing rifle down a notch so that it is not the only useful ranged pvp profession would probably bring a lot more people into the pvp part of the game.
Thats how out of touch they are.DIfferent kind of "glow-stick" there...
piezo wrote:
Hehe, i KNOW that nobody at sony cares what people say or think on the forums.
Well, except jedi. For some reason they are on their hands and knees giving jedi everything they want.
Message Edited by gloga on 06-19-2004 11:35 AM
Seraph00X wrote:
I'm with the "wait and see" people.
reasoning: this morning before work I was hunting ravenous tortons, and I am a 1/1/0/0 rifleman, master ranger. The rav. tortons conned red to me, but by planting myself /prone /takecover /maskscent and then spam /concealshot1 I dropped it without it even knowing I was there. There was almost no risk, I took absolutely no damage, and got almost 4k rifle xp out of it. While I'm not complaining about it (in fact it was prett damn cool), I have to agree that we are pretty powerful, even at my lowly 1/1/0/0 skill.
conclusion: while I don't want anyone nerfed (especially riflemen), some things definitely need to be readjusted a little.
BIG problem i have with sitting and waiting is that if we do we will end up weak and pointless to do for another 6 months till they start listening to us again. Rifle used to be very weak and coutner productive 3/4 times you would do more damage to yourself then u would to them. I and many others dont' want to see something this bad happen again. I could care less if the FOTM ppl left i would stay if the prof was actually playable in pvp but the way things are shapeing up to look like there is no way we can fight in pvp which is one of the things i do most in SWG.IF it is possible to fight as a rifleman in pvp i will stick with the game but if not there isn't a chance i will. SWG losses enough costomers already from stupid mistakes they make and i believe that this is another stupid mistake that they will be makeing in relation to rifle and combat in general. There is no way in the small amount of data that we have been given that we will be able to fight at all. Think about it 6 seconds to be able to kite another 3 per disarming shot. Can you fight in pvp under these conditions and have a snowball's chance to win? If so please tell me and i will stick with the game.
gloga wrote:
Funny.......used to be the novice riflemen saying "Oh we are so underpowered" now some1 who is barly into it says o we are so powerfull. The only reason we are so powerfull is because every other prof is broken other then a select few.
It's true as before January of this year rifleman were weak. Anybody who did the grind back when the 2.5x melee damage was removed and the lack of wearable armor for rifleman know all too well that we were weak. Add in we had to deal with warping mobs and the inability to hit objects at point blank range.
I was asked a couple of weeks back by afew guild members how hard rifleman is to grind. Most figured they'd save that for the last profession to grind since they recall it taking me well into 2 months or more to complete though I didn't do the grind as hardcore as I could have at the time. The two both agreed that rifleman would be a pain to which I quipped back rifleman is the easiest ranged profession to grind thanks to buffs and armor. It's not too uncommon to find a person grind out rifleman in less than 3 days.
Back in December the devs fixed our conceal and allowed rifleman the ability to agro just one creature at a time instead of pissing off the whole lair. Add to that they completely changed around lairs so they didn't spew out more creatures as you were attacking their friends. Also, by that time many riflemen and found out the miracle spice called muon and the powers that it gave use. Today we have buffs to secondary that can reach well into 2.6k and if you add in mind buffs and food you'll be able to endless spam lairs for the quick gathering of experience points. Not to mention the fact that now you can find great T21's and laser rifles pretty much anywhere you look along with the fact that we now have a rifle that deals acid damage.
gloga wrote:
If pisoleer get Disarmingshot working in the revamp it will be the FOTM in less then a second it is a free 3 second delay that u just have to spam and u win the battle hands down. it would be the same here just spam disarming shot and it is a free delay they won't notice u have disarmed them they try and shoot get the little msg and are dead. Lets say we compare pistol to rifle: Pistol has 4 maybe 5 attacks that actually work in its entire arsinal where as we have only one that doesn't (Suprise shot). Instead of sitting here with their finger in their nose figureing out what to change and "rebalance" in the revamp they just need to FIX what we have now and not complicate the game even more with a new system that will have even more buggs (god forbid) then we do now.
It's a little more complicated then that. From release rifleman was one of the only classes that had a majority of its specials working. Also, at this time you saw more pistoleers as they had the advantage of rapid fire and high accuracy while moving at any distance. Add to this that pistoleers had at that time the most variance in weapon damage time so they were the best choice to go with. Don't forget that under marksman the pistols line received better shots then rifles so this added to its favoritism.
Currently Pistoleers are the most broken class of ranged professions with Carbineers following second. Granted Carbines have been fixed to some degree the damage output in relation to the special costs of their weapons negate any work that has been done towards fixing their class. We cannot ignore the fact that current game mechanics have also lead to FOTM clubbers to pickup rifles over any other class based on our damage output with now the near zero costs for specials thanks to buffs. Add in armor with other protective items and it's no wonder why nobody plays any other class aside from rifleman/CM. (I know many others play different professions but this is the most common build we run across.)
Even if the developers were to fix the specials from Pistoleer all other factors still apply. We haven't even touched base on how stacking or better known as "templating" still works and leads to an even more powerful player. All pistols are AP0 meaning that they will do little to no damage against composite (AR1 - light) armor. If they target has a shield generator that will add even more on to the base of the armor making the pistol as the worst weapon in game. Another good example of this is the switch between favorite pistols. The FWG-5 was the pistol to have 8 months ago as no armor protected against heat over 40 - 50 % and even after the nerf to the pistol we saw Pistoleers take to either the new republic blaster or the tangle pistol to combat the composite problem. Currently many Pistoleer have to run a high end Geonosian Sonic Blaster just to try to compete against other players as even with a stun protection layer of 30% the blaster is only an AP0 weapon.
Carbineers currently have only 3 damage types that they can use against players and one that isn't included is stun. Add in the problem with the HAM costs for specials along with the fact that they have the lowest amount of defenses than any other combat class; it's any wonder why players even choose this profession. Several of their specials are still broken, they have little to no melee defenses and get the ever so notable counter attack that works as well or less than our block. The best feature of Carbineer is the area dizzy and KD shots they have but this doesn't make up for the fact that they are gimped in PvP competition.
As to the spamming of delay shots from Pistoleers or any other class, once again under the current game mechanics it wouldn't be of much use. TK's can perform the unarmed 2 attack which will dizzy and KD players sometimes leaving them stuck on the ground for 10 seconds. With high kinetic resist armor and a good template the damage a TK does during the 10 seconds you're on the ground is negated. This leaves yet another profession somewhat busted as they only do limited damage types and/or low AP damage against higher end armor.
As stated before by many others we're being chastised as a profession.. group of players because of something the developers allowed. Buffs, 90% resist armor and high end / poor programmed weapons and enhancements such as Acklay bones with higher minimum than maximum damage have torn apart what balance was left in game. Add to that defense templating has taken it toll on any type of competition between single elite combat professionals on our server. Hopefully it won't be too late before the developers realize that they were the ones who allowed these problems to exist.
Message Edited by Veustuh on 06-22-2004 11:02 AM