Rifleman Archive
Thread: This made me sick to see... a LLC does this well??
Krupskaya wrote:
. . . . though I might have a somewhat greater change of surviving (meaning: time to run before I die).
I meant 'chance'. Why am I always afflicted by this typo? 
Krup it has been stated 1000 times thatheavy weapondamage will be changed to ranged base from melee. We have been dealing with a weapon that forces us to take 2.5 damage and it will be fixed. Ignoring that and trying to compare auto damage is SPIN, no doubt about it.
That YOU cant take a BH or Comando as is right now is not the question. The question is how we will compete when the damage is changed, a change we all know is going to happen. Knowing this, anyone that is a Master Rifleman and does PvP knows we will have the advantage over a BH and Comando at range if they are using heavy weapon. We will no longer take 800 damage, it will be closer to 300, and that is if they hit us. Also you should know that you can on average lay down a 800 point SS2 and being very conservitive a 400 HS2, I personally hit closer to 550 on average.
We have all had to deal with the BS auto damage by heavy weapons, and it is very frustrating to say the least. What we cant do if we want to be taken serious is try to spin this in a way to try and get a overpowered weapon, and in this case we would be doing that. If the profession continues to waste time trying to be uber without one thought into balance, Rifleman will become a shell of its former self, you can take that to the bank.
Aden anyone who PvP's as a Rifleman, Novice or Master that comes here and has a problem with non TEF comando's getting with in 15 meters to use their special needs to go ahead and stop PvP'n. Why I said trying to use the comparison between auto attacks of each class does not prove why the T-21 needs improvement. You are trying to spin, and it wont work on someone who knows what it is to PvP as a Rifleman.
I hardly ever use it in PvP because with a max of 48m fuge factor, which can be covered extreamly rapidly, mobility is much more adventagous currently than cover. I also belive the dificulty to hit a moving target is greater than cover. No math to suport this, just seem to get hit less while moving than when covered.
As for the 2.5x dammage it is a bug, and it does need to go. I stoped keeping track of it but VS commando's in open PvP I had something like 46:6 kill ratio. I rarely die to BH's. There was one instance when SG raided Rori Rebel base, there were a lot of LLC BH's, and it was pretty impossible for me to do anything but get instantly incaped, but that was expected under the circumstances. Typically though I don't have much trouble at all with LLC users. They hit hard and fast, but I hit harder and faster.
I have also dueled just about ever combat class, with the majority of them being BH's. Since the 75% damage reduction I have yet to loose a duel and I figure I have been in well over 300. So to the person that said the 75% damage reduction was the end of the rifleman, your incorrect. As it use to be anyone could 1 shot anyone else. Anyone PvPing seriously in that era would know that Pistol users ruled that period as they could always get off first, and either outright kill you or keep you in an infiniate loop till you died.
Right now I see it being pretty well balanced. No one gets a garanteed 1 shot kill. All combat classes seem to be effective given the right user is useing them. If one combat class is currently under powered it may be the pistol lnies, with the exception of BH's. Though I am sure there are a few master pistolairs out there that are blended with other professions that are doing quite well. Melee classes are included in this statement.
PS: YP, I like you =) You need to come kill with the Cats sometime.
If you don't specifically build to defense (after getting master rifle and/or master marksman) you can't really complain about the situation against BH and commandos. The counter-argument to skill point argument used by BHs is that everyone ends up spending the same number of skill points. Well, if you want to be good in combat as a rifleman, you better be spending those points intelligently and spending a lot of them for combat stats.
"Krup it has been stated 1000 times thatheavy weapondamage will be changed to ranged base from melee. We have been dealing with a weapon that forces us to take 2.5 damage and it will be fixed. Ignoring that and trying to compare auto damage is SPIN, no doubt about it."
No it hasn't. Thousands of players have angrily complained, but no Developer has scheduled a change. So it isvery much an issue. Your claim is that the 2.5x melee modifier should be ignored, even though it exists, simply because, at some indefinite time in a possible future, it may not exist. That's just ridiculous.
"That YOU cant take a BH or Comando as is right now is not the question. The question is how we will compete when the damage is changed, a change we all know is going to happen."
That 'I' can't take one? Get out of your bubble -- the vast majority of people cannot, because they are extremely powerful. The fact that Commando weapons can one-shot people styled and two-shot Riflemen unstyled under the current system is not a fabrication; it is self-evident. And once again, you suppose "we all know" without one iota of proof that a change is forthcoming to the melee modifier.
"Knowing this,"
You don't know this. Unless you're Jeassa'smanservant or Holocron's conscience.
"anyone that is a Master Rifleman and does PvP knows we will have the advantage over a BH and Comando at range if they are using heavy weapon."
Umm, no, don't presume to speak for the community. First of all, you assume a change is coming, then you assume the new system will be advantageous. Are you a time traveller, reporting from the Star Wars Galaxies of an alternate universe months into a possible future?
"We will no longer take 800 damage, it will be closer to 300, and that is if they hit us."
More visions from the future, I see.
"Also you should know that you can on average lay down a 800 point SS2 and being very conservitive a 400 HS2, I personally hit closer to 550 on average."
You're full of it. The only Rifle which can lay down an average of 800 on SS2 is a pre-nerf T21. You know, the Rifles which are no longer producible?
"We have all had to deal with the BS auto damage by heavy weapons, and it is very frustrating to say the least. What we cant do if we want to be taken serious is try to spin this in a way to try and get a overpowered weapon,"
Excuse me? Overpowered weapon? So a T21 exceeding half of a Flamethrower's damage is overpowered, then? 'Flamethrowers can only use specials within a 15 meter range' -- and T21's are only accurate within a 14 meter range. And consume an irreplenishible pool. And carry massive defense penalties.
We don't want any nerf to Heavy Weapons exceeding the removal of the bug. We do want our T21's to be improved to the level of competitiveness. And petitioning for this is equivalent toan anti-Heavy Weapon spin? I suppose two months ago we should all have been telling the Commandoes to shut up because their weapons were already adequetely powerful.
"and in this case we would be doing that. If the profession continues to waste time trying to be uber without one thought into balance, Rifleman will become a shell of its former self, you can take that to the bank."
Umm, wow, what a collection of ineloquently chained cliches. Expressing absolutely nothing. 'Shell of its former self'? 'Trying to be uber'? Yes, one of the most sparsely populated classes in the game is told to stop "trying to be uber" because the two great FOTM classes are balanced. Right . . . .
So let me see if I read this correctly. I am not to assume that the dev's will fix this when they have said so. But instead use this bug as a catalyst to get one of our weapons buffed. So what happends when it does get changed? Does the T21 get nerfed again? Did you think for one secound on how the improved damage would not just effect the professions using Heavy Weapons, but every profession in the game? Did you consider at all the history of changes to our profession? Do you not pay attention and know that every single improvement has also brought a nerf to our profession? Of course you didnt because you are trying to use the situation to get something you want, that is Spin. You can tap dance around it, play this hypothetical game, but the fact of the matter is you are trying to use the situation asa wayto get more power.
Excuse me? Overpowered weapon? So a T21 exceeding half of a Flamethrower's damage is overpowered, then? 'Flamethrowers can only use specials within a 15 meter range' -- and T21's are only accurate within a 14 meter range. And consume an irreplenishible pool. And carry massive defense penalties
So we are to assume that you actually have a clue about what you are talking about when you make a absolutely retarded statement like that? We are only accurate within a 14 meter range? How do you actually expect Master Rifleman to buy off on that? How about you do yourself a big favor and lay off the sleeping pills because it is effecting your judgement in a very bad way. That was the lamest attempt in trying to justify a increase in damage for the T21 I have seen to date.
We don't want any nerf to Heavy Weapons exceeding the removal of the bug. We do want our T21's to be improved to the level of competitiveness. And petitioning for this is equivalent toan anti-Heavy Weapon spin?
Need I say more? You prove my point exactly. You want the bug changed like every other Rifleman, but you want to piggyback that change with increased damage to the T21. They have absolutely nothing to do with each other. You say out of one side of your mouth "they will never fix it so we need more damage", then out the other side you say "well even if they do, we need to do more damage". Nice Spin, nice spin indeed.
Actually I dont care about Jedi, actually I take that back, I cant wait to do my part in killing as many as I can.
As for leaving, when I dont enjoy logging on then it is time to go. Now crying from people on the message boards doesnt effect my enjoyment of the game itself one bit.
Eppyon_MM said:
"you cant compare them with commando weaponry becaue the commandos actually have a very long wait between shots, a BH can use its LLC every sec missing is not an issue if it misses you one sec you better have had time to run out of range."
That is an absolute crock of *** self-edit ***. Auto-attack at LLC 4 is about once every 2 secs. Specials are about once every 4.
I see the biggest problem is the 2.5x melee dmg . with heavy weapons, which I believe is being fixed.
The best damage I have ever done with LLC using lightning single II is about 1K PvP (to non-rifleman)and I have to be within 16m for that, and it is inaccurate and slow compared to:
A master rifleman hitting 1K+ PvP using Advanced Strafe once a second from distance. That's what happened to me in AH the other day. You don't see me calling for nerfs. I didn't even know he was there, I was concentrating on his buddy 
.