Rifleman Archive
Thread: The new rifles are posted for inspection!
SickSix wrote:
On another note, You are alluding to stacking.... I was under the impression that one of the major focuses of the CU was to removestacking of combat professions??
I thought the whole point was that if you only mastered one elite combat profession, you would still be effective in battle on your own(to a certain extent)????
I'm sure you have reason to say what you did above, because as a Corr it would be bad business to spread unfounded rumors. but i really hope they are not going to do this.
Something to remember. SWG is set up as a skill based system. We have professions that can compliment each other. If each is completely individualized then we would have a class based profession.
One thing about a 'class' based system is that you are only that class.For example if you have a Rifle equipped you would only get those skills from Rifle. That means no more defenses from say Fencer.
In a class based system you would only have about thirteen combat professions. That's it. Taking part of a profession would be nearly worthless.
In a profession based system, or more correctly a skill based system, you can pick parts of professions that you like and want to use.
This allows for a much greater variety of templates and allows the player to temper their characters abilities to suit their play style in a way a class based system never could.
The focus of the CU/R/B isn't about stacking. It's to address the imbalances in the present combat situation because of a host of reasons. But we also need to address the issue of certain stacked professions being the 'best' template. What I'd like to see done is that there is no one'best' template. But a different 'best' template based on circumstances/situation.
Waste93 wrote:Think of it this way. Presently Rifles gets all the new rifles because we are the only ones that use them. If others get rifles to play with the means they will have Rifle skills, mods, and specials that we can stack with. It gives Rifles something they've never had before. Other professions that directly compliment Rifles and allow for us to stack with.
SickSix wrote:but i really don't like Ackehece's alluding to the fact that we may not even get those weapons.Message Edited by SickSix on 02-28-2005 10:02 AM
If you read the Carbineer and Pistoleer boards you will see that this is the part of the professions that is most disliked by them. I can say this from experience because I was a Master Pistoleer at one time and we constantly commented on the fact that even as a master of a ranged profession we still were not "qualified" for certain types of pistols, let alone needing BH to actually fire near or at the speed cap. In fact the best shots a pistoleer has are in the smuggler and BH lines. Only fan shot in Pistols is extremely useful. I think stacking is one of the worst ideas they came up with.
Yes BH's are supposed to be excellent at weapons. However a BH's profession is hunting down and tracking people. A Master Pistoleer and Master Carbineers profession is shooting that weapon with extreme skill. It makes no sense that in order for a person to be better at shooting their trained weaponry, they would have to be a smuggler or a Bounty Hunter. Those are just other branches of professions that one can lean towards. It doesn't make any sense that instantly they would be better at shooting their guns. I hope that in the CURB they DO NOT make it that rifles will have to be stacked.
Being that you are the rifleman correspondent I hope that in your reports to the DEV's you relate the ideas and thoughts on this subject as to what the majority of rifleman plyers feel on a subject. Normally you stay pretty neutral when it comes to discussion such as this. However being that you seem very determined in this idea of stacking rifles I have become a little worried in what you are saying to represent us rifleman.
XwingRogue3 wrote:
A Master Pistoleer and Master Carbineers profession is shooting that weapon with extreme skill. It makes no sense that in order for a person to be better at shooting their trained weaponry, they would have to be a smuggler or a Bounty Hunter. Those are just other branches of professions that one can lean towards. It doesn't make any sense that instantly they would be better at shooting their guns. I hope that in the CURB they DO NOT make it that rifles will have to be stacked.
He has a point. If you have to 'stack' on another profession in order to be the best at pistoleer, then doesn't that actually make the "Master" title a lie? becuase you aren't actually the master of your weapon until you stack on some other hybrid profession that you will have to pick up another novice box (if not more) to get........
So maybe they should rethink "master" titles if every combat class is going to have other pieces somewhere else besides the core profession.
I do understand the 'class vs skill' thing at a basic level, but it's obvious now that you have to be very careful in how you implement it. Maybe, we should all check out the Carbineer and Pistoleer forums to investigate this further.
If i can wear the "Master Rifleman" title, then i better be the best rifleman a rifleman can be, otherwise i'm not really a master at all........maybe we should steal from those guys that start with a J, and current Master Rifleman will be Rifle Knights, and you can't be a master until you've stacked whatever you need to stack from! 
Oh yea one more thought. I thought the sandbox hasn't started yet, as the CURB is still in alpha mode. If this is so then what rifleman are you referring to who like the changes so far?
Waste93 wrote:
Getting rid of stacking definately makes 'balance' easier. But it also limits players option severely. It also means there is no reason to take part of a profession. Which means we can get rid of SP completely. All we'd have to do is say you are limited to one or two Master combat professions. And lets say two crafting, and one other profession. Thats it. Would that bea system most people would want to play in?
actually isn't that how it is already?
How many options do Master Rangers have? Master Doctors? In several circumstances the game is already as you describe you not wanting it to be.
I hope they are looking at this.
And What about a Smuggler? they require 2 novice boxes, and if that person wanted to craft, or heal,that would be a 3rd, that's 45sp in novice boxes.
I hope they are looking at some of the Skillpoint hog professions, and if they insist on this stacking thing, then give them some of the combat stuff *cough*RANGER*cough*
SickSix wrote:
Waste93 wrote:
Getting rid of stacking definately makes 'balance' easier. But it also limits players option severely. It also means there is no reason to take part of a profession. Which means we can get rid of SP completely. All we'd have to do is say you are limited to one or two Master combat professions. And lets say two crafting, and one other profession. Thats it. Would that bea system most people would want to play in?
actually isn't that how it is already?
How many options do Master Rangers have? Master Doctors? In several circumstances the game is already as you describe you not wanting it to be.
And What about a Smuggler? they require 2 novice boxes, and if that person wanted to craft, or heal,that would be a 3rd, that's 45sp in novice boxes.
I hope they are looking at some of the Skillpoint hog professions, and if they insist on this stacking thing, then give them some of the combat stuff *cough*RANGER*cough*
This arguement could very well be invalid with the curb - everythinghas the ability to bechanged with the CURB. Who is to say that entire professions are not being completely changed in every way possible.
Currently you can master up to three combat elites if you work at it ^-^ Think of a combatant that stacks pistols/carbs/ and rifles...
XwingRogue3 wrote:
Waste93 wrote:
Think of it this way. Presently Rifles gets all the new rifles because we are the only ones that use them. If others get rifles to play with the means they will have Rifle skills, mods, and specials that we can stack with. It gives Rifles something they've never had before. Other professions that directly compliment Rifles and allow for us to stack with.
SickSix wrote:
but i really don't like Ackehece's alluding to the fact that we may not even get those weapons.
Message Edited by SickSix on 02-28-2005 10:02 AM
If you read the Carbineer and Pistoleer boards you will see that this is the part of the professions that is most disliked by them. I can say this from experience because I was a Master Pistoleer at one time and we constantly commented on the fact that even as a master of a ranged profession we still were not "qualified" for certain types of pistols, let alone needing BH to actually fire near or at the speed cap. In fact the best shots a pistoleer has are in the smuggler and BH lines. Only fan shot in Pistols is extremely useful. I think stacking is one of the worst ideas they came up with.
Yes BH's are supposed to be excellent at weapons. However a BH's profession is hunting down and tracking people. A Master Pistoleer and Master Carbineers profession is shooting that weapon with extreme skill. It makes no sense that in order for a person to be better at shooting their trained weaponry, they would have to be a smuggler or a Bounty Hunter. Those are just other branches of professions that one can lean towards. It doesn't make any sense that instantly they would be better at shooting their guns. I hope that in the CURB they DO NOT make it that rifles will have to be stacked.
Being that you are the rifleman correspondent I hope that in your reports to the DEV's you relate the ideas and thoughts on this subject as to what the majority of rifleman plyers feel on a subject. Normally you stay pretty neutral when it comes to discussion such as this. However being that you seem very determined in this idea of stacking rifles I have become a little worried in what you are saying to represent us rifleman.
I admit it is aworrisome situation but if we would gain abilities that complement our own at the same time as gaining certs in different trees it might not be so bad. We currently do not have access already to 4 rifles 2 of which are cert'd in different professions.
Remember:
- a Light Lighting Cannon is classed as a rifle and a heavy weapon (check combat spam ifyou do not believe me)(BH)
- A Beam Rifle is both a rifle and a heavy weapon (Beta Commando Weapon No Cert now)
- A Acid Rifle is both a rifle and a heavy weapon (Commando Weapon)
- A Tuskan King Rifle is a rifle with kinetic damage (No Cert's)
XwingRogue3 wrote:
Oh yea one more thought. I thought the sandbox hasn't started yet, as the CURB is still in alpha mode. If this is so then what rifleman are you referring to who like the changes so far?
The sandbox is the test server. The server itselfis not yet up.However the testers have been selected and have had access to the preliminary documents since December.
So to clarify. What we've seen on paper so far seems good. Of course we'll have to see how it plays out on the test server. But in this particular regard I like the aspect I'm talking about with certain safeguards/limitations. Nor have I heard any complaints from the Rifle testers about this.
Could that change? Of course. But so far this aspect looks good.
I don't like forced stacking anymore than you. But the option to stack is a different story.
Waste93 wrote:
Think of it this way. Presently Rifles gets all the new rifles because we are the only ones that use them. If others get rifles to play with the means they will have Rifle skills, mods,and specials that we can stack with. It gives Rifles something they've never had before. Other professions that directly compliment Rifles and allow for us to stack with.
On another note, You are alluding to stacking.... I was under the impression that one of the major focuses of the CU was to removestacking of combat professions??
I thought the whole point was that if you only mastered one elite combat profession, you would still be effective in battle on your own(to a certain extent)????
I'm sure you have reason to say what you did above, because as a Corr it would be bad business to spread unfounded rumors. but i really hope they are not going to do this.