Rifleman Archive

Thread: Sneaky Sniper or Mr. Heavy Machine Gunner?

Barb-Wire
Sat Jan 24, 2004 8:53 am
#40

personally i like sniping but the game mechanics kinda prevent that from ever really happening. to be a sniper you have to remain unseen and shoot once to kill a target.

the problem with this is it creates and "i win button" so being a true sniper is right out just because to allow a class like that to exist would make PvP completely out of wack and PvE would be hard to implement due to one-shotting NPC throwing that aspect of the game completely out of kilter. the one thing that SHOULD not happen should be changing rifles solely for PvP content.

my vote is for heavy gunners. things like having a E-Web and having to craft disposable tripods for it that would act as the power supply for the thing and would be used up while the weapon is firing. would take a short time to set up and once set up is not moveable and has to be destroyed and decays on its own over time. (the tripod not the E-web) the E-Web would go back into your inventory once the tripod life span expired thru use or time or removed by the player. would work kinda the way the narlagon works in being able to set it up. as more vehicles and GCW things like AT-AT are introduced we need some heavy weapons.

commandos do not fit this sort of role as they are special weapons users. the role of a commando is more of someone that goes in places a bomb and destroys something. i dont think of flamethrower wielding foot soldiers when the term commando comes to mind. i think of someone that sneaks into an area and plants destructive devices to take out large single targets that cant be taken out by other means.



Created Account July 2003 - Canceled account Nov 2005. The NGE made me do it.
Barb Wire
Former Dark Force Wielder
Ex-Imperial Navy
Waste93
Sat Jan 24, 2004 12:56 pm
#41








Barb-Wire wrote:


my vote is for heavy gunners. things like having a E-Web and having to craft disposable tripods for it that would act as the power supply for the thing and would be used up while the weapon is firing. would take a short time to set up and once set up is not moveable and has to be destroyed and decays on its own over time. (the tripod not the E-web) the E-Web would go back into your inventory once the tripod life span expired thru use or time or removed by the player. would work kinda the way the narlagon works in being able to set it up. as more vehicles and GCW things like AT-AT are introduced we need some heavy weapons.

commandos do not fit this sort of role as they are special weapons users. the role of a commando is more of someone that goes in places a bomb and destroys something. i dont think of flamethrower wielding foot soldiers when the term commando comes to mind. i think of someone that sneaks into an area and plants destructive devices to take out large single targets that cant be taken out by other means.






An E-Web is a crew served weapon, which means a support weapon. Anything that requires a tripod fits in that category. Hence it fits more in with Commandos. I agree I don't think of Commandos the way they are in the game. In the game they are heavy weapon specialists. Not true Commandos. Under that context the E-Web would fit their profession more than ours.


I see the Rifleman as an Infantryman. Which means assault rifles. A few soldiers in the unit would have some other weapons such as a light machine-gun (US Military SAW) or GPMG (M-60). Those are the weapons you will find in a typical combat squad. Also a grenade launcher (which isn't in the game).


Support weapons are handled by specialists. Mortar teams, heavy machine-guns, artillery, etc. Some of these don't have any translation to SWG of course, but heavy weapons and support weapons fit the context of Commandos as the Devs have implemented the Commando, however misnamed.



Colonel Waste - The Wookiee Crusader
PyscoJuggalo
Sat Jan 24, 2004 1:03 pm
#42

1. As our skill tree is set up now. Do you feel we are snipers or heavy gunners?


2. Do you feelwe should be leaning more towards heavygunners or snipers in our skill tree? Our should we balance them out more, keeping them both?


3. If you had to pick one or the other what would you want, 100% heavy gunner or 100% sniper?


4. If the profession is built more on sniping, do you think we should have more range? What should we have?


5. If the profession is built more on gunner, do you think we should have more damage types? What should we have?


1- We are heavy gunners 70% Snipers 30%


We are more heavy gunners because to be effective we rely on speed more than anything. Secondly all our good shots are spray the area AOE's. We are specially gunners in PVP where our speed dose the most harm and has the most effect.


Our sniper side is mostly just our high accuracy, sniper shot, conceal shot, and head shots. YesHS isnice but are not as effective in large scale PVP as our AOE's like Strafe 2.


In AOE we are snipers when we start rifleman gunners when we are master, in PVP we are gunners all the time.


2- I think we should lean towards heavy gunner, being both sniper and gunner is overpowering. There is no way we can have a sniper's accuracy and a gunner's speed.(Unless they get rid of buffs, but thats not a good idea) We should become pure gunners and in the Space Expansion or the expansion after they should add a new sniper profession.


3- 100% Gunner, this profession as I siad is 70% Gunner anyway, might as go all the way since this is what I know.


4- If we were snipers we should have longer range, Powerful singel target shots that target the mind with a delay on them that makes us fire our next shot after a long period of time(We will not be able to spam shots at all), stealth(either hidden from radar or we show up as a blue dot), and near perfect accuracy.


5- All we need to perfect the gunner part of this profession is reduce our rifle accuracy at master by about 50. If they fix the damage types on the Tusken and spray stick that will be cool. Also if they make us pure gunners they should remove conceal shot and sniper shot.(I know it hurts but it's only fair)



I am the Mad Rifleman, Writer of the Riflenomican. I understand the secrets of the Dark Ancient Developer ones and their Evil. (Maniacal Laughter) He he he he he, Ha ha ha ha ha, Aha ha ha ha!
CM's are like nukes. You have them just incase you need them, but as soon as you start using yours the other guys start using theirs and everything goes to hell-PyschoticChipmunk -The First line of the Riflenomican.
PyscoJuggalo
Sat Jan 24, 2004 1:13 pm
#43

-Edit- in answer number one last comment.


In PVE we star as snipers at novice and become gunners at master.



I am the Mad Rifleman, Writer of the Riflenomican. I understand the secrets of the Dark Ancient Developer ones and their Evil. (Maniacal Laughter) He he he he he, Ha ha ha ha ha, Aha ha ha ha!
CM's are like nukes. You have them just incase you need them, but as soon as you start using yours the other guys start using theirs and everything goes to hell-PyschoticChipmunk -The First line of the Riflenomican.
lizzardfire
Sat Jan 24, 2004 2:29 pm
#44

1. Heavy Gunners


2. I would honestly like to be a sneaky sniper, but due to limitations in the game the things that would make the real don't seem to be possible (like double the range of other weapons for instance)


3. 100% Sniper


4. More Range


5.We need more defenses to changes (like KD and dizzy) and also a KD attack. like full force shot or something, if we are heavy gunners we should be shooting projectiles with enough force to knock anything down lol







Lizzardfire | Dark Warrior of Valor
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After taking my meds, drinking a full glass of whiskey,
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TrekDude
Sat Jan 24, 2004 2:47 pm
#45

Keep it a 50/50.


According to cannon the T21 IS a heavy machine gun/rifle. It is made for supressive fire, firing very high powered shots once every second, powerful enough to destroy a land speeder. Yet, is has very far range and is fairly accurate, so itcan ALSObe used to "snipe".


If you notice in starwars, the only snipers are the Tusken raiders in Ep. I sniping the pod racers at Boonta Eve, and Zam Wessle in Ep. II. BOTH are using ballistic weapons like our RL guns.


Ourweapons are more assualt rifles, that can be usedfor sniping. Like IRL, the SAW or M16 can be used to snipe quite effectivly, butare mostly a suppressive fire weappons.


If they make us pure sniper, they have to take out ALL of our weapons except the Tusken rifle, and redo them all.


I'd really like to see rifleman stay the way it is, 50/50 sniper, heavy gunner. That is justhow our weapons work.






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Waste93
Sat Jan 24, 2004 3:40 pm
#46






TrekDude wrote:


Ourweapons are more assualt rifles, that can be usedfor sniping. Like IRL, the SAW or M16 can be used to snipe quite effectivly, butare mostly a suppressive fire weappons.






Have to disagree with you here. In real life neither the SAW or M16 is an effective sniping rifle.


The SAW is an automatic weapon. It's a light machine-gun. Full auto is not condusive to sniping.


The M16 can be accurate however it has a flaw the in general makes it unsuitable to sniping. The round is a 5.56mm round (.223) which is not effective as a sniping round. The small size limits it's accurate range and does not do the kind of damage prefered for sniping. The SAW also uses this round and has the same problems.


In the US Military the standard sniping round is a 7.62mm round. Usually fired from a bolt action rifle. The bolt action has less moving parts as the round is traveling down the barrel and is hence more accurate than a semi-auto where the bolt is moving back while the bullet if moving down the barrel.


Both may be used for accurate fire, but not for sniping. You will see some M16's with telescopic sights (not just aimpoints) used by SWAT teams. But this is usually a matter of range. Most SWAT call outs are at a much shorter range than combat. Mostly because of the urban enviroment that enables the SWAT member to get much closer to the target than in combat situations. But even then, SWAT teams will have a long range larger caliber rifle for sniping also.



Colonel Waste - The Wookiee Crusader
DVader539
Sat Jan 24, 2004 5:26 pm
#47

1. As our skill tree is set up now. Do you feel we are snipers or heavy gunners?
I feel we are both. As the skill trees go, Sniper, Sniper, Both, M. Gunner.
The Sniping tree has Sniper Shot, plus Aiming, Accuracy, and Concealment Chance bonuses, all supporting a Sniper role.
The Concealment tree has Conceal Shot, Sneak, and Cover bonuses, all supporting the Sniper role.
The Counter-sniping tree has Flushing shot, which at first level is a sniper ability, but once you start damaging more than one target, it's a M. Gunner ability. Overall the block bonus and defense bonuses don't matter, so I'd say it's a Riflemen role. (Both)
The Rifle Special tree has Flurry Shot and speed bonuses, which I'd classify as M. Gunner abilities.

Therefore we are made for both, but I feel we have a greater set of abilities toward Sniper.

2. Do you feel we should be leaning more towards heavy gunners or snipers in our skill tree? Our should we balance them out more, keeping them both?

It was mentioned on the In Concept board that since we are the only elite class that uses a Rifle (Pistol and Carbines each have several classes that use them) that Rifle could branch out and cover two elite professions, Sniper and Infantry.

If that's not do-able, then i'd say we should lean more toward Sniper.

3. If you had to pick one or the other what would you want, 100% heavy gunner or 100% sniper?

100% Sniper.

4. If the profession is built more on sniping, do you think we should have more range? What should we have?

No matter what we should have more range. We have long-range weapons. But yes, doubley so for sniping. 70m minimum, 80m would be great, and if the Devs would listen to a few ideas here, longer is possible, though I don't think it'd make the game fair at that point.

5. If the profession is built more on gunner, do you think we should have more damage types? What should we have?

We do have more damage types (T21=blast, Tusken=kinetic, Spraystick=acid) but they don't work. If the Devs would actually spend a few tiny minutes going in and fixing this, then we'd have a good arsenal. (acid, blast, cold, energy, kinetic) And I think that's all we need.



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DVader539
Sat Jan 24, 2004 5:35 pm
#48

Oh, one more important observation.

We do HEAD damage. (although I know snipers can eliminate targets through chest wounds, head wounds are much more prefered) The head is a sniper's target. If we were M. Gunners, we'd be hitting the body.

The Carbineers do action damage, which is stupid in my opinion. It'd rather see them do body damage since they're set up more like machine gunners. The body is a larger target and a general target for infantry.

The Pistolers do body damage (though I think it should be action damage)



Click here for proof that the Devs hate Riflemen. And here's the kicker! (Seperate thread)
Making a controversial point: Ignored
Making a good controversial point: Locked
Making a great controversial point no one can argue: Thread Deleted
There are few things you can post, for everything else, there's a CSR waiting.

undeadrooster
Sun Jan 25, 2004 1:59 am
#49






klawlegna wrote:


1. As our skill tree is set up now. Do you feel we are snipers or heavy gunners?


2. Do you feelwe should be leaning more towards heavygunners or snipers in our skill tree? Our should we balance them out more, keeping them both?


3. If you had to pick one or the other what would you want, 100% heavy gunner or 100% sniper?


4. If the profession is built more on sniping, do you think we should have more range? What should we have?


5. If the profession is built more on gunner, do you think we should have more damage types? What should we have?



Right now I think we're a halfassed combination, with no real strengths/weaknesses in either. While it makes us a good damage dealing profession, it doesn't give us any "character" and leads to all sorts of people dabbling, which in turn leads to the cries for a nerf. etc etc. Sniping would suggest a slow rate of fire with massive damage capalities. In other words, one shot kills from long distances. Gunnery would suggest being to lay down blankets of suppression fire and covering fire and such. I think our skill tree reflects that now with the flushing/flurry shots, and the fast rate of fire.


I sort of answered the second question in the first paragraph, but I think we should have a more distinct split. With the exception of Sniper shot, the Sniper tree is worthless. Surprise shot seems like it was thrown in there at the last minute, and head shot3 does disproportionate damage for the ham cost. I think we should lean more towards the working part of our profession. "Balancing" in this game is taking away the fun of playing characters with a handicap. Might as well be playing Return to Wolfenstein.


If I had to pick one, I'd rather be a heavy gunner. One shot kills at range will never go over in this game, and if they were implemented, everyone who focuses on combat would become a sniper. I'd hate to give up sniper shot, which is the one thing I'd like to keep, but it'd be worth it to prevent a "superprofession". A heavy gunner would be most likely to kill from a distance next to a sniper, but again, people would cry foul.


If the profession leans towards sniping over gunnery, I'd like to see the range increase (lets use radar modes above 128m for a change) but our speed decrease considerably. Revamp the first three trees entirely. Write in a way to allow "cover" to hide us on radar and our names on screen. Make headshot3 a massive multiplier or a much lower ham cost. Make startleshot actually do...something. Anything. Maybe even consider a more powerful warning shot, to allow time to get out of Dodge once something recognizes you. Focus more shots to the "cover" position. That's a good way to handicap a sniper, to make up for a powerful sniping shot.


If the profession leans towards gunnery, I'd like to see the status effects we have work (spraystick, tusken, t21-blast). Maybe add electricity in the form of the Beam Rifle. (It's an acid beam I know I know...) I'd like to see our range pushed a litttttle out, or at least the range for carbines and pistols made reasonably shorter. The sniper tree (much as I love sniper shot) should be taken out, and replaced with more stance-affecting shots. I'd like to see a knockdown, as well as good covering fire shots to drive opponents down. The Dizzy and Stun effects now are really good, maybe add something to further mitigate damage or decay accuracy. Something like an Intimidate or an actual Startle status effect. The downfall to gunnery I'd like to see is that we'd have virtually no accuracy below 40m, and retain our high HAM cost specials. This prevents wearing of much armor unless you're buffed. This doesn't allow us to be long-range tanks... which gunners aren't. The one problem we might have with this is that it'd start to move closer to the Carbineer. It's not really a bad thing... as Carbineer should be a compromise between heavy gunnery and short-range pistols.



I think overall, no matter what happens, that the rifleman profession should be reconsidered. I don't think it should be hailed as a "nerf" by any means... but I think we could do wellto be strengthened in areas, and weakened, as a result, in others. More Yin/Yang style balancing, rather than the neutralizing that's gone on up to this point.




_________________________________________________________
I got banned from Bria and all I got was this stupid T-shirt
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weaselwarrior
Sun Jan 25, 2004 2:20 am
#50

1. As our skill tree is set up now. Do you feel we are snipers or heavy gunners?


Heavy Gunners that can put the final shot in at the end to kill the target


2. Do you feelwe should be leaning more towards heavygunners or snipers in our skill tree? Our should we balance them out more, keeping them both?

The only sniper element i have come across in this tree is snipershot(which rocks) and conseal shot. Tofday my novice rifle friend and i took out about 4 npc atsts with food spice and conseal shot.


3. If you had to pick one or the other what would you want, 100% heavy gunner or 100% sniper?

100% heavy gunner, people dont stand still enough and we dont crawl fast enough to make being a sniper effective at all. I find the best way to win in pvp is to get buffed up, put on my armor and take spice and food making all my stats average at about 2500 then just blasting my way through the area hoping a i dont get KDed.


4. If the profession is built more on sniping, do you think we should have more range? What should we have?

More range and the ablity to hide ourselves from other players when were attacking and one shots kills. After all thats what a sniper is, a stalker that hidden and takes the mark out with one shot then gets out before they are found(unless the movies are lying to me)

5. If the profession is built more on gunner, do you think we should have more damage types? What should we have?




Maybe more of a variety in specials, currently we have strafe2 spam combo(i use it to hit a group or hit a target with low Health or Action, great for pve), mindshot spams(For other riflemenand for people that heal faster than strafe can take away), and flurry/surpression fire(HA! like that ever works) And for the love of god, NO SPEED CAP!!!! we are not gods, if any melee gets close we end up on our asses for the battle till our DB, we work off of being a heavy gunner that can take out the crazy guy with the sword(which we cant friggin hit anyways) if riflemen had a nickle for everytime we got KD/dizzyed we would have enough money to buy some shares in sony to get ourselves heard.




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GUTB
Sun Jan 25, 2004 2:37 am
#51

Rather, Carbineers should not do any damage to any one HAM specifically, but effect all of them equally. Consider the Carbine packs punch and speed. High volumes of fire, AoE and status change effects should be the Carbineer "thing". We are the ones who should be able to target each HAM specifically. Head Shot for mind, Crippling Shot for action, and Vital Shot for health, using our ability for accurate, high-stopping-power damage. Why do snipers go forthe head? Because it is the most vulnerable point on a human being. In this game in which stats can be transmigrated and encased in advanced high-resist composite, we should naturally be able to target any weak point in an enemy -- wether it is the head, the neck, the chest, a leg or an arm. Give us the ability to blow out a knee of a charging squill, or put a shot into the soft underbelly of a rearing sharnaff.


And how about having Rifle Customization? Our rifle is everything to us, so shouldn't we have an extra ability, starting at Novice, to begin customizing variosu stats of our rifles? Say we get Artisans to make us modification kits? We would run them sort fo like crafting experiments -- we would pick an area to improve, like damage or speed, and perhaps improve them at the expensive of other stats. We could start off at Novice with +2 "Customization" points, and get +2 at each subsequent level in the tree. And at Master level, let us do something really cool like alter the damage type of the rifle, etc.
Xytroncore
Sun Jan 25, 2004 3:03 am
#52






weaselwarrior wrote:


The only sniper element i have come across in this tree is snipershot(which rocks) and conseal shot. Tofday my novice rifle friend and i took out about 4 npc atsts with food spice and conseal shot.







Wow...and you guys think that everything is all well and good.....interesting.



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