Rifleman Archive
Thread: So, hows rifleman for pvp in the test center?
Message Edited by HarlequinMK19 on 04-19-2005 12:06 PM
If, however, the new combat system is supposed to make different combat proffessions use different tactics, then a nerf isn't called for. For example,I already spend ALL my action taking down a full melee templater, and against CMs my health usually runs out 10-30 sec after the duel has ended, due to the DoTs. What if the melee folks used cover to get to me? What if CMs laid in their DoTs and ducked behind a corner to heal while my health drops from fire/poison? wouldn't necessarily mean I'd lose every time, but I'd be forced to counter their tactics.
Action and reaction, different combat roles....that's what the new combat system is supposed to be about, not going straight at your opponent to get it over with.
KundoJet wrote:
All of the above concerns with minimum ranges are legitimate. Oddly, the solution is to reinstate the model used in Live (the removal of which made no sense to me whatsoever): have weapons gain/lose accuracy at different ranges depending on their type. Pistols are more accurate at close range, rifles more accurate at long range. Makes sense.
Oh, but wait - to do that accuracy would have to mean something -skills and mods in general would have to mean something, but at present they don't. If they DID, and the range modifiers were signficant, it would be a far more accurate reflection of reality.
I can still shoot someone 5 metres away witha rifle (I can also shoot someone at 500m away, but I won't go into that). But it's a lot harder to do (especially when either you or the target are moving) thanit would be with a pistol... or better yet a submachine gun firing on automatic.
Kona_Combine wrote:
Well my other post in this thread got deleted, how lame.
Here's an idea, equip a rifle untilyouclose into Pistol range, since all the new Rifles are based on LvL and not Rifleman tree boxes. No need to nerf the Rifleman class, we have already lost a lot in the CU.
I dont understand why we lost our AoE Shots, hello! Rifleman, rapid fire weapons.
Any chance on us getting an AoE attack added back to our profession, Corrispondent?
nope T_T
AOEs are not our province anymore (I fought this for 6 months- bascially not going to happen)
as for equipng pistols when we lose rifle range
- master level weapon > cross cert'd weapons
- this means we are nerfed in damage
- and in speed and accuracy (using generic mods vs rifle + generic)
- this means also that when we enter POI locations and content locations that we will always be underpowered to those around us
- we also can not use cover effectively in small rooms etc so our nuke without return fire is nerf'd
- basically we can no longer fight indoors at all
Ackehece wrote:
Kona_Combine wrote:
Well my other post in this thread got deleted, how lame.
Here's an idea, equip a rifle untilyouclose into Pistol range, since all the new Rifles are based on LvL and not Rifleman tree boxes. No need to nerf the Rifleman class, we have already lost a lot in the CU.
I dont understand why we lost our AoE Shots, hello! Rifleman, rapid fire weapons.
Any chance on us getting an AoE attack added back to our profession, Corrispondent?
nope T_T
AOEs are not our province anymore (I fought this for 6 months- bascially not going to happen)
as for equipng pistols when we lose rifle range
- master level weapon > cross cert'd weapons
- this means we are nerfed in damage
- and in speed and accuracy (using generic mods vs rifle + generic)
- this means also that when we enter POI locations and content locations that we will always be underpowered to those around us
- we also can not use cover effectively in small rooms etc so our nuke without return fire is nerf'd
- basically we can no longer fight indoors at all
If they go ahead with making rifles only work at ranges of greater than 25m, then you're right. But surely they see that's just plain silly? Less effective, yes. (They are, it's a fact, no point arguing it). But useless? Of course not. Make it harder to hit, or something that has some bearing on reality. But how could they possibly rationalize arifle not being able to fire at all unless its target is more than x distance away? The energy bolt needs a running start? O.o
Too many things in the CU to date seem to defy rational explanation, and that's a concern for me both because it means they weren't all that well thought out in the first place, and because they are counter-immersive (immersion being one of the key goals of any RPG - and I ain't talkin' Rocket Propelled Grenade...).
KundoJet wrote:
Ackehece wrote:
Kona_Combine wrote:
Well my other post in this thread got deleted, how lame.
Here's an idea, equip a rifle untilyouclose into Pistol range, since all the new Rifles are based on LvL and not Rifleman tree boxes. No need to nerf the Rifleman class, we have already lost a lot in the CU.
I dont understand why we lost our AoE Shots, hello! Rifleman, rapid fire weapons.
Any chance on us getting an AoE attack added back to our profession, Corrispondent?
nope T_T
AOEs are not our province anymore (I fought this for 6 months- bascially not going to happen)
as for equipng pistols when we lose rifle range
- master level weapon > cross cert'd weapons
- this means we are nerfed in damage
- and in speed and accuracy (using generic mods vs rifle + generic)
- this means also that when we enter POI locations and content locations that we will always be underpowered to those around us
- we also can not use cover effectively in small rooms etc so our nuke without return fire is nerf'd
- basically we can no longer fight indoors at all
If they go ahead with making rifles only work at ranges of greater than 25m, then you're right. But surely they see that's just plain silly? Less effective, yes. (They are, it's a fact, no point arguing it). But useless? Of course not. Make it harder to hit, or something that has some bearing on reality. But how could they possibly rationalize arifle not being able to fire at all unless its target is more than x distance away? The energy bolt needs a running start? O.o
Too many things in the CU to date seem to defy rational explanation, and that's a concern for me both because it means they weren't all that well thought out in the first place, and because they are counter-immersive (immersion being one of the key goals of any RPG - and I ain't talkin' Rocket Propelled Grenade...).
'solo levelling is not being removed from the game, it will always be possible'
To do that , and give us a 25m min range, they would have to chaneg every piece of AI in the game to force all creatures and npcs to use ranged attacks at greater than 25m range only, and no mellee attacking at all.(how melle would level, I have no idea)
Without this change, a range limited rifleman could not ever level solo.
Not opinion, not a rant, simply how the game works.
(by the way, for me I beleive the stopping shot should be restricted to its own class, dabling is what makes it so powerful, and I think giving specials like snipershot and conceal a minimum range it would negate any calls for nerfs farther down the line)
Message Edited by valetman on 04-21-2005 05:40 PM
valetman wrote:
To squash the rifle range limitations for good, quote TH.
'solo levelling is not being removed from the game, it will always be possible'
To do that , and give us a 25m min range, they would have to chaneg every piece of AI in the game to force all creatures and npcs to use ranged attacks at greater than 25m range only, and no mellee attacking at all.(how melle would level, I have no idea)
Without this change, a range limited rifleman could not ever level solo.
Not opinion, not a rant, simply how the game works.
Yup. To add such a minimum range limitation, they would also have to make sure that riflemen can kill their targets before they get within 25 meters to get proper XP. But that would be rather counter-productive.
Honestly, it does not seem at all like people are complaining about riflemen using rifles and rifle specials, rather cross profession specials. So... Why would riflemen have to be nerfed because of specials in other professions? Things like this boggles my mind, especially since riflemen are not the highest DPS ranged profession currently (which they should be according to the design documents).
Vicotnik wrote:
valetman wrote:
To squash the rifle range limitations for good, quote TH.
'solo levelling is not being removed from the game, it will always be possible'
To do that , and give us a 25m min range, they would have to chaneg every piece of AI in the game to force all creatures and npcs to use ranged attacks at greater than 25m range only, and no mellee attacking at all.(how melle would level, I have no idea)
Without this change, a range limited rifleman could not ever level solo.
Not opinion, not a rant, simply how the game works.Yup. To add such a minimum range limitation, they would also have to make sure that riflemen can kill their targets before they get within 25 meters to get proper XP. But that would be rather counter-productive.
Honestly, it does not seem at all like people are complaining about riflemen using rifles and rifle specials, rather cross profession specials. So... Why would riflemen have to be nerfed because of specials in other professions? Things like this boggles my mind, especially since riflemen are not the highest DPS ranged profession currently (which they should be according to the design documents).
agreed, and thats what my commnet was meant to say.
If its 'balanced' so we can kill anything before they close to within our min range, there would be nerf calls, and with good reason. To put out that much damage to take a level 80 mob(assuming same level player)within 2 hits, whioch is all you get between 64 and 25 m if a mob charges, it most certainly would be overpowered.
The only way to still have solo levelling would be no mobs in PvE ever close to melee at all, and stayed using ranged attacks at a range greater than our minimum.
Of more concern to me is the fact that nothing in the game can tank for us, a TKM cannot hold aggro whilst a single rifleman hits a mob at max dps, my pets as a CH have no tank role at all.
given our fragility in defence, this is the serious issue and imbalance of the CU, not a broken pistol special(which I beleive the root should break after the target takes damage).