Rifleman Archive

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Waste93 wrote:

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XaverriJade7 wrote:

Something that may need someclarification (or not, but here goes ):

Master Riflemen do not even fire at the speed cap. At least not while using SS2 and a T-21, which is what matters for me Anyone firing a rifle once per second almost inevitably has invested in some SEAs or else Master Marksman. Rifles should stay capped at 1 sec, but I could maybe see pistols and carbines having a lower cap (say .5 sec and .75 sec respectively). Who knows?- point is that Master Rifleman does not, all by itself, make you 'uber'. So the whiners can go grow up. Not trying to be nasty here, but if a MR isreally thatgood, they have gone beyond simply mastering the profession to do so.

And on an unrelated note,I like the green font, Waste(I know you've been getting some criticism)

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I disagree about the speed caps you mentioned. FIrst there is no real difference between what you suggest and making pistols 1se, Carbines 1.5sec, and Rifles 2sec. What that does is cut down on the Rifles advantage (Raw Damage) while not increasing the other areas to achieve balance. You cut out relative damage in half while not touching other areas that makes the other professions strong.

Secondly there is no real basis for it. The internal mechanics of a Pistol, Rifle, and Carbine willbe nearly identical. They'll look different, be different sizes, but serve the same pruposes. And the tech used in them will basically be the same.

So there should be no real mechanical reason they would have different firing rates. Think of a real worl example. Look under the hood of any car made by any manufacturer. You see an engine. They look a bit different, they have different amounts of power, but they all work the same. Firearms are the same way. You have a firing pin, spring, hammer, trigger, etc. Some may have an internal hammer while other an external hammer. But they have them.

The difference between a rifle, carbine, and pistol is just one of size and external cosmetics. I can give you a semi-auto pistol, carbine, and rifle and you would fire them at the same rate. The reason being is the mechanics of them are virutally the same and the mechanical limitations are much higher than you can actually pull the trigger.

If we want the whiners to grow up we have to demonstrate that DPS is not the sole defining issue for a profession. Show them how they can cause more status changes (BH or Carbineer) or have better defenses and lower HAM costs (Pistoleer). We need them to look at all aspects of a given profession, not only the easy to see such as damage, but also the passive (defenses) and those that can effect the situation (status effects).

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As of right now, riflemans dps is wayout there in comparison to any other ranged profession. Wayout there. I dont want rifleman to be taken off by this, but it is why of kilter. I have played every ranged profession but commando. When I was a pistoleer I had a 111-508 republican blaster; i could stopping shot people for about 300 points of damage.(ranged midigation) This weapon was exceptional.

I was strafe shot the otherday ago, 900 points of damage, I have ranged midigation 3. Now if i had an ordinary republican i would hit for about 150-200. This 900 hundred damage I report to you I am sure comes from an exceptional rifle, as I tend to get hit for 600 usually. Thank God for armour. This is a 3 fold increase in offensive power. I can except the fact that rifles do alot more damage, but the real problem comes in when you guys move and shoot. This sucks when you are a pistoleer and you have excellent moving while shooting skill modifiers, and that SOB rifleman kites better than you do. So damage is not the issue, It is the kiting/moving around you can do while delivering your awesome damage. Commando delivers good damage, but you dont see them burning people to crisp while they move into and out of your range. If any rifleman says they dont hit that good while moving, they are FLAT OUT LYING! I HAVE SEEN IT.... A RIFLEMAN BURST RUNNING WHILE SPAMMING MASTERHEADSHOT AND NOT MISSING! If commando did this, I would probably be on that forum also!

Your technical descriptions of rilfe's and pistols is quite good, however you fail to give any props to why smaller weapons are still in use. Rifle is hard to use, large, bulky weapon that takes a few moments to prepare to use in a few situations. During the Waco Texas, compound raid, the police officers were using submachineguns and other small arms to enter this building. WHY? Try hauling a .30-06 Rifleinto a building window and then let alone try and use it in close quaters.

Right now , the rifleman in this game can move and shoot without any penality and when in close quarters they still are able to hit at an alarming rate. So should rifleman be doing alot of damage, YES. Should rifleman be doing this awesome damage at almost every range band, Most people would say no.

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Easy-Exanip wrote:

As of right now, riflemans dps is wayout there in comparison to any other ranged profession. Wayout there. I dont want rifleman to be taken off by this, but it is why of kilter. I have played every ranged profession but commando. When I was a pistoleer I had a 111-508 republican blaster; i could stopping shot people for about 300 points of damage.(ranged midigation) This weapon was exceptional.

I was strafe shot the otherday ago, 900 points of damage, I have ranged midigation 3. Now if i had an ordinary republican i would hit for about 150-200. This 900 hundred damage I report to you I am sure comes from an exceptional rifle, as I tend to get hit for 600 usually. Thank God for armour. This is a 3 fold increase in offensive power. I can except the fact that rifles do alot more damage, but the real problem comes in when you guys move and shoot. This sucks when you are a pistoleer and you have excellent moving while shooting skill modifiers, and that SOB rifleman kites better than you do. So damage is not the issue, It is the kiting/moving around you can do while delivering your awesome damage. Commando delivers good damage, but you dont see them burning people to crisp while they move into and out of your range. If any rifleman says they dont hit that good while moving, they are FLAT OUT LYING! I HAVE SEEN IT.... A RIFLEMAN BURST RUNNING WHILE SPAMMING MASTERHEADSHOT AND NOT MISSING! If commando did this, I would probably be on that forum also!

Your technical descriptions of rilfe's and pistols is quite good, however you fail to give any props to why smaller weapons are still in use. Rifle is hard to use, large, bulky weapon that takes a few moments to prepare to use in a few situations. During the Waco Texas, compound raid, the police officers were using submachineguns and other small arms to enter this building. WHY? Try hauling a .30-06 Rifleinto a building window and then let alone try and use it in close quaters.

Right now , the rifleman in this game can move and shoot without any penality and when in close quarters they still are able to hit at an alarming rate. So should rifleman be doing alot of damage, YES. Should rifleman be doing this awesome damage at almost every range band, Most people would say no.

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Actually Rifleman DPS is not badly out of kilter if you factor in all the aspects of the profession. Yes when you were a Pistoleer you did a lot less damage. But you also had a lot better defense. See the prior post about circular balancing.

Yes a Rifleman can move and shoot. But try it prior to Master. It doesn't work well at all. Back when I was working my way up the Rifleman profession (I had level 2 accuracy so my accuracy wasn't that poor) it wasn't unusual for me to miss 2-3 shots out of every five while moving and shooting at something that was close to me (usually a Snorbl).

You are partially correct on why the ATF agents went into WACO with SMG's. It's because some weapons are better at close quarters. SMG's are great for assaulting. Which is why I argue that Carabineers are assualt troops. Also with a SMG you have less overpenetration in the close quarters of the building so are less likely to penetrate a wall and wound an unintended target since a SMG uses pistol ammo. Rifles are not the best choice at close range. No arguement there. Remember however that some of those outside DID have rifles. They were used to cover the agents during entry. Why? Because that was a role the rifle was well suited for. Distance precission shooting, or in this case you could say covering fire whiel the agents were exposed during entry.

Also a rifle is not harder to use. Since they all act in the same way the only difference is really size. The rifle may take a bit longer to aim because of the longer eye relief, but that is not the same as saying they are harder to use. They take a bit longer to initially aim. Which is what I argue speed is in the game prior to the 1sec cap. It's aim time. But at Master level you are at a level where you can aim and hold the weapon on target with ease. When we talk Master level I don't think of just a professional soldier, I'm thinking along the lines of Annie Oakley or any of the other great shooters that can bullseye a target with their back turned and using a mirror to aim. Someone that has practiced so often, or just has the natural flair for a weapon, that they don't realy aim as much as instinctively aim.

The reason smaller weapons are still in use is because of roles. Pistols are small, light, and easy to conceal. Which is why most criminals will use a pistol. It's also why the police carry them and why they work well in close quarters. SMG's have the same basic reasons as pistols. Though they are slightly heavier they make up for that with a larger ammo capacity and greater rate of fire. A carbine is a smaller version of the rifle. It is generally used by those that want the power of a rifle yet need less weight or bulk. Generaly this means special forces, Airborne, and SWAT teams. A rifle is the main arm of the distance shooter. It has greater stability (and hence accuracy) and because of it's bulkier nature can handle more powerful loads.

You see the main reason to use a rifle is high power and distance. The second is a non-factor in this game since everything caps at 64m (except melee and some weapons like grenades of course). There is no distance in this game. So they've cut the reason to use a rifle down to one factor. Power.

Damage in the game is not dependent on range. So a Rifleman hitting at any range is doing the same amount of damage. This is true for any combat profession. A Pistoleer that hits at max range does the same range of damage they would do at min range.

What most people don't realize is that there is more than just raw damage. Like I said earlier, and part of the paragraph you underlined, you also have to take into account other aspects of the profession. Part of the balancing is status attack and defensive abilities. Both areas that the Rifle lags behind compared to Carabineer and Pistoleer. The issue is that people, especially in regards to defense, do not actually see this.

You can see combat spam that shows the damage being done. You can see the floaty number over the targets head. Yet can you see defenses? Some you can. Dodge lets someone completely avoid the attack. Riflemen have Block which only reduces the damage and even if Blocked any status effect will still take effect. Carabineers have a ranged KD. An ability that a straight Rifleman has no defense against. So it has a greater chance of effecting the Rifleman.

All those are aspects that need to be taken into account when looking at a profession. If people want to complain that a Rifleman has do much raw damage, can we not also complain that they have a ranged KD which if KD you can't attack. Or defenses against status changes or the ability to completely dodge an attack? Are those not also part of balancing the professions?

Message Edited by Waste93 on 05-06-2004 05:25 PM

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Easy-Exanip wrote:

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Waste93 wrote:

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Easy-Exanip wrote:

As of right now, riflemans dps is wayout there in comparison to any other ranged profession. Wayout there. I dont want rifleman to be taken off by this, but it is why of kilter. I have played every ranged profession but commando. When I was a pistoleer I had a 111-508 republican blaster; i could stopping shot people for about 300 points of damage.(ranged midigation) This weapon was exceptional.

I was strafe shot the otherday ago, 900 points of damage, I have ranged midigation 3. Now if i had an ordinary republican i would hit for about 150-200. This 900 hundred damage I report to you I am sure comes from an exceptional rifle, as I tend to get hit for 600 usually. Thank God for armour. This is a 3 fold increase in offensive power. I can except the fact that rifles do alot more damage, but the real problem comes in when you guys move and shoot. This sucks when you are a pistoleer and you have excellent moving while shooting skill modifiers, and that SOB rifleman kites better than you do. So damage is not the issue, It is the kiting/moving around you can do while delivering your awesome damage. Commando delivers good damage, but you dont see them burning people to crisp while they move into and out of your range. If any rifleman says they dont hit that good while moving, they are FLAT OUT LYING! I HAVE SEEN IT.... A RIFLEMAN BURST RUNNING WHILE SPAMMING MASTERHEADSHOT AND NOT MISSING! If commando did this, I would probably be on that forum also!

Your technical descriptions of rilfe's and pistols is quite good, however you fail to give any props to why smaller weapons are still in use. Rifle is hard to use, large, bulky weapon that takes a few moments to prepare to use in a few situations. During the Waco Texas, compound raid, the police officers were using submachineguns and other small arms to enter this building. WHY? Try hauling a .30-06 Rifleinto a building window and then let alone try and use it in close quaters.

Right now , the rifleman in this game can move and shoot without any penality and when in close quarters they still are able to hit at an alarming rate. So should rifleman be doing alot of damage, YES. Should rifleman be doing this awesome damage at almost every range band, Most people would say no.

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Actually Rifleman DPS is not badly out of kilter if you factor in all the aspects of the profession. Yes when you were a Pistoleer you did a lot less damage. But you also had a lot better defense. See the prior post about circular balancing.

Yes a Rifleman can move and shoot. But try it prior to Master. It doesn't work well at all. Back when I was working my way up the Rifleman profession (I had level 2 accuracy so my accuracy wasn't that poor) it wasn't unusual for me to miss 2-3 shots out of every five while moving and shooting at something that was close to me (usually a Snorbl).

You are partially correct on why the ATF agents went into WACO with SMG's. It's because some weapons are better at close quarters. SMG's are great for assaulting. Which is why I argue that Carabineers are assualt troops. Also with a SMG you have less overpenetration in the close quarters of the building so are less likely to penetrate a wall and wound an unintended target since a SMG uses pistol ammo. Rifles are not the best choice at close range. No arguement there. Remember however that some of those outside DID have rifles. They were used to cover the agents during entry. Why? Because that was a role the rifle was well suited for. Distance precission shooting, or in this case you could say covering fire whiel the agents were exposed during entry.

Also a rifle is not harder to use. Since they all act in the same way the only difference is really size. The rifle may take a bit longer to aim because of the longer eye relief, but that is not the same as saying they are harder to use. They take a bit longer to initially aim. Which is what I argue speed is in the game prior to the 1sec cap. It's aim time. But at Master level you are at a level where you can aim and hold the weapon on target with ease. When we talk Master level I don't think of just a professional soldier, I'm thinking along the lines of Annie Oakley or any of the other great shooters that can bullseye a target with their back turned and using a mirror to aim. Someone that has practiced so often, or just has the natural flair for a weapon, that they don't realy aim as much as instinctively aim.

The reason smaller weapons are still in use is because of roles. Pistols are small, light, and easy to conceal. Which is why most criminals will use a pistol. It's also why the police carry them and why they work well in close quarters. SMG's have the same basic reasons as pistols. Though they are slightly heavier they make up for that with a larger ammo capacity and greater rate of fire. A carbine is a smaller version of the rifle. It is generally used by those that want the power of a rifle yet need less weight or bulk. Generaly this means special forces, Airborne, and SWAT teams. A rifle is the main arm of the distance shooter. It has greater stability (and hence accuracy) and because of it's bulkier nature can handle more powerful loads.

You see the main reason to use a rifle is high power and distance. The second is a non-factor in this game since everything caps at 64m (except melee and some weapons like grenades of course). There is no distance in this game. So they've cut the reason to use a rifle down to one factor. Power.

Damage in the game is not dependent on range. So a Rifleman hitting at any range is doing the same amount of damage. This is true for any combat profession. A Pistoleer that hits at max range does the same range of damage they would do at min range.

What most people don't realize is that there is more than just raw damage. Like I said earlier, and part of the paragraph you underlined, you also have to take into account other aspects of the profession. Part of the balancing is status attack and defensive abilities. Both areas that the Rifle lags behind compared to Carabineer and Pistoleer. The issue is that people, especially in regards to defense, do not actually see this.

You can see combat spam that shows the damage being done. You can see the floaty number over the targets head. Yet can you see defenses? Some you can. Dodge lets someone completely avoid the attack. Riflemen have Block which only reduces the damage and even if Blocked any status effect will still take effect. Carabineers have a ranged KD. An ability that a straight Rifleman has no defense against. So it has a greater chance of effecting the Rifleman.

All those are aspects that need to be taken into account when looking at a profession. If people want to complain that a Rifleman has do much raw damage, can we not also complain that they have a ranged KD which if KD you can't attack. Or defenses against status changes or the ability to completely dodge an attack? Are those not also part of balancing the professions?

Message Edited by Waste93 on 05-06-2004 05:25 PM

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Damage in the game is not dependent on range. So a Rifleman hitting at any range is doing the same amount of damage. This is true for any combat profession. A Pistoleer that hits at max range does the same range of damage they would do at min range.

If you can not hit some one, you have done 0 damage. If you are less likey to hit someone your damage per second will drop. So lets take this circular balance think into consideration, pistols and some carbines would be best for short range fighting, I think we can logically agree to this. At the master level riflemen can out shoot a pistoleer at close quarters, PERIOD. People are upset because a rifleman can be standing 2-10m from them and getthier brains blown out. Not the occasional lucky shot, but a confirmable killin almost all cases.So is it too much for the rifle community to concede these shorter range bands to the other professions? Because in all actuality, defense versus knock down +50 does not help you when a rifleman is 10m away from you and has 3headshooted andcapped you, then the fourth shot kills before you hit the floor. I would find this exceptable at 40m but at 10m this just patronizing the other ranged combat professions.

What most people don't realize is that there is more than just raw damage. Like I said earlier, and part of the paragraph you underlined, you also have to take into account other aspects of the profession. Part of the balancing is status attack and defensive abilities. Both areas that the Rifle lags behind compared to Carabineer and Pistoleer. The issue is that people, especially in regards to defense, do not actually see this.

Currently I play a carbineer, so I see things from the gimped side of the combat spectrum. Lets look at the circular balance. Most of the carbine shots are fixed and working, WOOT, but even after these fixes we are still horrible in PVP. I can stun/blind/dizzy rifleman and yes it does help, but even with master carbine I hit the speed cap with a 1.0 speed weapon. I can crippling shot you with my best carbine every 3.0 seconds. I can use my state effect shot every 2 seconds. I can use my ranged knock down every 2.5 seconds. So lets say you and I have squared off at 45 m, my ideal range. Ok I shoot my ranged state effect shot, 2 sec's later I might have one of three states land, so I will shoot it twice. 4sec's elapse. During this 4 sec's i have sustained 800 points of damage to my mind bar, providing forno misses. So in order for circular balance to happen , the carbineer just cant hang with the damage you can put forth. And well rifleman howl about ham, well they have not played carbineer, 2 brandies and canape you are good to go.

Carbine uses 100 points from points both action and health and like 20-90 from the mind pool. That is alot of prep carbine has to go thru.

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Range is non-existant. The 64m max range is very easily closed by anyone within a couple seconds. Yet 64m is LESS than the typical range on any rifle firing range. The typical range on a firing range for rifles is 100 yards. The US military trains it's soldiers on ranges of up to 300 yards. Studies have shown that most combat takes place at ranges up to 300 yards. The typical military sniper engages at ranges of 600-700m.

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Whoa , we have 2 cases of a misplaced agency. Buff's do help just about everyone, so now I have to master doctor. Well I dont want to play doctor, lol. This sounds like the combat medic forum, combat medics think every one should be doctor. Well fooey , now the rifleman state that I should be a doctor. How are buff's going to help me against the flurry of master headshots comming at me?

Rifleman have no place dabble in? ah right, Rifleman stacks with plenty of classes. While bh/carbineer is rather impressive the skill points invested in this template is rather excessive. and after seeing carbineer/bh in action, it is a good thing we dont shoot at the speed cap.

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Easy-Exanip wrote:

If you can not hit some one, you have done 0 damage. If you are less likey to hit someone your damage per second will drop. So lets take this circular balance think into consideration, pistols and some carbines would be best for short range fighting, I think we can logically agree to this. At the master level riflemen can out shoot a pistoleer at close quarters, PERIOD. People are upset because a rifleman can be standing 2-10m from them and getthier brains blown out. Not the occasional lucky shot, but a confirmable killin almost all cases.So is it too much for the rifle community to concede these shorter range bands to the other professions? Because in all actuality, defense versus knock down +50 does not help you when a rifleman is 10m away from you and has 3headshooted andcapped you, then the fourth shot kills before you hit the floor. I would find this exceptable at 40m but at 10m this just patronizing the other ranged combat professions.

Yes. And yes a Master Rifleman can hit at close range, but a Master Pistol will also hit at max range. The reason being as with all the accuracy mods at the Master level both the Master Rifle and Master Pistol hit the accuracy cap even at their worst range bracket. I don't think you would find to many Rifleman having problems with reducing our close in range accuracy if at the same time you reduced the long range accuracy of Pistols. For Carabineers you would have the ideal in the middle while lowering toward the max and min. In other words the Carabineers accuracy would be about the same at min/max as the Rifle and Pistol is at the middle.

Currently I play a carbineer, so I see things from the gimped side of the combat spectrum. Lets look at the circular balance. Most of the carbine shots are fixed and working, WOOT, but even after these fixes we are still horrible in PVP. I can stun/blind/dizzy rifleman and yes it does help, but even with master carbine I hit the speed cap with a 1.0 speed weapon. I can crippling shot you with my best carbine every 3.0 seconds. I can use my state effect shot every 2 seconds. I can use my ranged knock down every 2.5 seconds. So lets say you and I have squared off at 45 m, my ideal range. Ok I shoot my ranged state effect shot, 2 sec's later I might have one of three states land, so I will shoot it twice. 4sec's elapse. During this 4 sec's i have sustained 800 points of damage to my mind bar, providing forno misses. So in order for circular balance to happen , the carbineer just cant hang with the damage you can put forth. And well rifleman howl about ham, well they have not played carbineer, 2 brandies and canape you are good to go.

Carbine uses 100 points from points both action and health and like 20-90 from the mind pool. That is alot of prep carbine has to go thru.

Congrats on getting your specials working. And yes I agree some tweaking is in order. HAM costs for carbines has always been excessive and needs to be lowered. No arguements there. Remember that Rifles also have high HAM costs so we do know where you are coming from in that regard.

Though it is unlikely to change since the new HAM system will make this radically different anyways.

As for the speed problems, the Carbine issue with speed is the same as that of the Pistoleers. It isn't the speed mods, it's the delay mods built into the specials themselves. All specials have damage multipliers, HAM cost multipliers, delay modifiers, and even accuracy bonuses. Those accuracy bonuses BTW are why Pistoleers are more accurate than you would suppose when using some specials. They go up to +50 for some while rifle specials are +15 or less.

But it is those delay mods that cause the most problems. They are generally low for rifles while higher for pistols and carbines. If you lower those a bit you are a significant step towards fixing the issue. So if you have a delay mod of 4X and drop it to say 3X you just increased your speed 25%. I don't know what the delay mods are for the Carbines, but you can drop them a point or two and fix many of the issues.

My personal opinion is that at Master just about everyone should be able to fire at or near the speed cap with specials. You are a Master after all.

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SmoothOperator wrote:

"Carbine uses 100 points from points both action and health and like 20-90 from the mind pool. That is alot of prep carbine has to go thru."

In PvP these days everyone is buffed and if they aren't they are dead.

WIth over 2k to each secondary your carbiner specials cost nothing from health and action leaving you only mind to take from, same as a rifleman.

The difference is that your carbine has a far lower special-cost to mind and the specials themselves cost less to mind as well. And if the rifleman can take some brandy and canape then so can you. Not to mention popping a muon if you get low. this means that the rifleman is at a distinct disadvantage to start with. Not only is he damaging YOUR mind but he's killing himself as well.

As far as accuracy at clost range is concerned, a master rifleman has +160to rifle accuracy, the modifier at point blank is -70 (or thereabouts) which means that at point blank the rifleman's accuracy is still at +90, roughly. If he isn't blowing your brains out then he's not a master (whatever it says above his head). The reason it bothers people so much is that we can hit the mind pool with this accuracy and high damage. If it was health or action people wouldn't be too bothered as they are normally buffed anyway. But as you said yourself, with brandy and canape thats a different story. Double brandy and treble canape is a fierce amount of mind and regeneration.

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Easy-Exanip wrote:

Some what correct. obviously using specials takes away from HAM. Now if you are saying you are special because of this, well spare us all, when I use legshot, a targeted pool shot , I use quiet alot of HAM and alot from the blue bar.

The accuracy is the real problem, buff's help everyone, at point blank range you have +90 to hit. So against all but a few classes you will pretty much just blow them away. This +90 to hit against classes that have low ranged defense, like almost all of them, are dead at the point blank range. This isprobably why we see alot of fencers and why other riflemen are hard to hit up close. If your argument is that rifleman should be able to kill like that at close range, then try and sell that to any brawler, they cant hit your targeted pool at 60m can they. So what gives, what makes rifles so special? You have good defense, and your offense is really good. I think riflemen is broken, ranged defense is more important than any defense vs XXX. Out of the all the ranged fighting professions, you have the best defense. Best offense + best defense = best shooting class. Dont worry the dev's see this and I am sure they will make the appropriate changes.

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Best defense? Here is a comparrison for a prior post. Some of it may have changed so feel free to correct any errors.

Pistol:
+105 Dodge
+7 Ranged Defense
+45 Melee Defense
+40 Dvs Stun
+40 Dvs Blind
+40 Dvs Dizzy
+50 Dvs Knockdown
+20 Dvs Posture Change

Carbine:
+105 Counter Attack
+27 Ranged Defense
+0 Melee Defense
+25 Dvs Intimidate
+15 Dvs Knockdown

Rifle:
+80 Block
+72 Ranged Defense
+45 Melee Defense
+10 Dvs Blind
+10 Dvs Dizzy
+30 Dvs Posture Change
+10 Dvs Stun

Yes rifle does have some good defenses. Better than the carbineer obviously. Best ranged defense. But their melee is the same as pistol and their status change bonuses are lower than pistol.

I don't think ranged defense is the most important. Maybe in PvP where most people use ranged attacks. But there are many MOBs that are melee. So melee defense is also important.

Look riflemen, I dont want to see an uber nerf of this class. I just want a little more team work in PVP and not a bunch of no talent-headshot spammers running around. Right now it is real hard to justify the need for any of the other ranged professions.

I like Waste's proposals and they sound like a winner! Circular balance is the way to go. I am just trying to put forth what it is like to play against a rifleman so people will perhaps take a look a what can be done to fixPVP. The dev's are getting closer to a really good system, I just want a more un-baised look at combat in general as this will help everyone. Everyone but the UBER guys who cant stand butbeating down at least 3-6 people at once.

Easy-Exanip wrote:

Look riflemen, I dont want to see an uber nerf of this class. I just want a little more team work in PVP and not a bunch of no talent-headshot spammers running around. Right now it is real hard to justify the need for any of the other ranged professions.

I like Waste's proposals and they sound like a winner! Circular balance is the way to go. I am just trying to put forth what it is like to play against a rifleman so people will perhaps take a look a what can be done to fixPVP. The dev's are getting closer to a really good system, I just want a more un-baised look at combat in general as this will help everyone. Everyone but the UBER guys who cant stand butbeating down at least 3-6 people at once.

Granted in PvP the mind pool is the main weakness. Hopefully with the new HAM system that issue will be fixed. I think the Devs made some errors with the original HAM system. The main one was making most of it easily healable when they added in all the stim packs and such. It made it to easy to heal all pools except mind. Then they added a buff system to exaserbate the problem by again making buffs easy to get except for the mind pool. Each step made the mind pool more attractive to target in PvP.

But one thing we don't want to do is overcompensate for PvP and mess up PvE like tends to happen. Which is why I would really like to see some variety in MOB HAMs to make it advantageous to actually target a HAM against them. Instead of all their HAM being the same as it is now.

Another thing about the new HAM system. It is also suppose to reduce the ability to spam specials. I think this will also resolve some of the issues you have brought up. They way I understand it to work is you have a seperate HAM for specials. It recharges on a timer and the recharge rate is going to be the same for everyone. So if you use a special that uses say 100 mind per special and the bar is 1000 units. You can fire ten times before it's empty. Since it will take 25 seconds or so to recharge you are restriced to regular auto attacks. I don't think you can buff it so there will not be increased recharge rates or no cost specials.

Though unless they reduce the carbine HAM costs this will probably hurt Carabineers more than anyone else. Pistols already have low HAM costs so would be able to spam more specials. While rifles have high damage to make up for the high HAM costs. Carbines will have mid level damage but high HAM costs. Just like mid level damage, they should have mid level HAM costs.

But I guess we'll know more once the Devs actually tell us something. This new HAM system was suppose to come out back in Feb.