Rifleman Archive
Thread: What exactly did they nerf on the T21?
based on your logic (real rifle doesn't do AP), does this make sense? "one shot one kill"
thats the motto of most sniper. i don't mean one-shotting kimogila... but what about pvp? currently we have to shoot 4-5 times to kill someone.. and note that rifleman don't have a knockdown.
if u wanna lower the AP of T21. fine. but keep it at AP2... and lowering the damage to nothingness is pure BS.
And why the heck are you guys lurking here? some of you that are pure commando, stop lurking here just because ur class is also broken. go lurk the pistoleer. and some of you that are pistoleer and pretending to be commando just so you can lurk andcomplain, go rot in a dark dungeon with your shame =P
note: they are rifles..
you cannot simply compare a rocket to a rifle there is just no comparison.
a rocket is a explosion on impact where a rifle is not.
You have broken weapons for your class thats your issues, you didn't have to be asswipes and ask to nerf ours. 1 gun with heavy armor rating so what?
someone stole your baby bottles I guess.
laterz
Well look at it this way... you can use almost every ranged weapon in the game. means more different types of dmg to inflict at your whim.
A commando doesn't pay the mind cost like a rifleman does using a riflemans only new cert gun the t21.
you pick up pharm 4 and org 4 for stims to heal yourself and which makes you able to spam specials riflemen can not do that and not sure if they ever will.
You having to train all thoses things you find worthless is not a riflemans fault neither is not having ap 3 guns of your own.
You're not really hesitant to post on a forum prof which you are not because if you want your prof fixed this is not the forum for you to do that.
You may not scream nerf but you do want another class with something your class doesn't getting nerfed so not saying the word doesn't count.
Master rifleman get 152 points ok.. well say they pick up one of the healing classes medic/doc/cm that means they get to use less specials in order to heal themselves..
So are you saying thatcharged up ion energyor laser can't penetrate metal? if the t21 was kinetic like the tusken rifle what would you be saying then?
Ibixat, you are right that it is not a projectile, however, piercing armor has physics involved no matter how you look at it. You have to penetrate it physically. Whether itchanges the formofthe armor, pushes its way through or whatever, it still has to penetrate. Maybe a shock would work differently but im not sure about that. Conductivity is a bit different.
My point: there is nothing in the Star Wars movies ive seen that show that physics dont apply. There's no reason for that to change here.
The T-21, imo, should not be at the very top of the AP ladder. If anything, give Master Rifleman +1 to AP so that at least you have to be at the very top of your game to make the elite rifle AP3. I say this as a tier 1 rifleman btw. ( just off the top of my head, havent really given any thought to that). But it should be at least AP2. It should be better than the laser rifle. That doesn't mean nerf the laser rifle either you wielders of the nerf hammer!
- Right, see 77 skills points free. Earned it. IF I wanted I could train Pistoleer, Carbineer, AND Rifleman and be able to use every non melee weapon in game. My point is that as a master commando I'm left with very little flexibility. Master Rifleman however has more than twice the options I do. And as I recall a rifleman has more guns to choose from than I do. Of course I can use them too, short of the T21 as I'm a master marksman (had too).
A commando doesn't pay the mind cost like a rifleman does using a riflemans only new cert gun the t21.
- I can't argue that. I can ask if you can use your specials more than every 15 seconds. Commando's have two specials - single target and AOE. FIFTEEN SECONDS of inactivity after use.
you pick up pharm 4 and org 4 for stims to heal yourself and which makes you able to spam specials riflemen can not do that and not sure if they ever will.
- It's funny, if I had 152 skill points free I bet I could be a Doctor and revive people. Granted I can't heal mind, but no one can.
You having to train all thoses things you find worthless is not a riflemans fault neither is not having ap 3 guns of your own.
- Ok. Does a pistoleer have an AP3 weapon? How about a carbineer? Both of them have 152 skill points free. My point is the journey to master rifleman is short and simple. Commando is not.
You're not really hesitant to post on a forum prof which you are not because if you want your prof fixed this is not the forum for you to do that.
- I'm not here to get my profession fixed. I'm hear to enlighten on the Commando class.
You may not scream nerf but you do want another class with something your class doesn't getting nerfed so not saying the word doesn't count.
- I'm not screaming nerf. SOE seems to feel you need to keep AP3. So be it.
Master rifleman get 152 points ok.. well say they pick up one of the healing classes medic/doc/cm that means they get to use less specials in order to heal themselves.
- it's called variety. I also was off. It's 158 skill points free. My point is Master Rifleman can also be a Master Doctor. Or a Master Weaponsmith. Or pretty much any other non hybrid elite class. Your class is not dedicated to doing damage to the exclusion of all else. That's commando.
I am fairly ignorant on the AP issue as it is being discussed. I have a simple point though.
The best Rifleman weapon the T21, should have better range andArmor Piercing than any weapon a Pistoleer, Carbineer or Bounty Hunter has.
Most, maybe not all weapons a Commando have should have greater AP than a T21.
Commandos should be the masters of destruction against NPC's, Vehicles, PvP.
Commandos should be able to flame, blowup, reduce to ashes most mobs using these weapons.
They should get full XP against NPC's and PVP and Vehicles, etc.
When these weapons are used against mobs the XP should be greatlyreduced and no bones, hides or meat should be able to be harvested. Who goes hunting with a flame thrower or rocket launcher?
Jase LightStep
Ranger/Rifleman
Alfgand wrote:I am fairly ignorant on the AP issue as it is being discussed. I have a simple point though.
The best Rifleman weapon the T21, should have better range and Armor Piercing than any weapon a Pistoleer, Carbineer or Bounty Hunter has.
Most, maybe not all weapons a Commando have should have greater AP than a T21.
Commandos should be the masters of destruction against NPC's, Vehicles, PvP.
Commandos should be able to flame, blowup, reduce to ashes most mobs using these weapons.
They should get full XP against NPC's and PVP and Vehicles, etc.
When these weapons are used against mobs the XP should be greatly reduced and no bones, hides or meat should be able to be harvested. Who goes hunting with a flame thrower or rocket launcher?
Jase LightStep
Ranger/Rifleman
That sounds terribly intelligent. Except for the reducing XP part, but I agree entirely with no harvesting from scattered bits of Durni. In fact, other than the XP reduction for vaporizing small animals with high explosive weaponry, I agree with everything you said.
Commandos (to the best of my knowledge) are designed as an anti-armour class. We're built to break down AT-STs, AT-ATs, and, to a lesser extent, Rancors, Grauls, and any other BIG things. Consequently it is REQUIRED that we have very high Armour-Piercing values on our weapons. Even a hideously powerful weapon isn't going to do much to a heavily-armoured AT-ST if it has AP0.
Riflemen, on the other hand, are designed (again, to the best of my knowledge) as a long-range interdiction to a single INFANTRY target. Armour Piercing is not a necessity when all NPC or player armour is AR1, and many players and NPCs lack armour altogether. The most powerful armour a Rifleman would conceivably have to deal with, assuming he sticks to his designated function and doesn't try to down heavily armoured (i.e. AR3) vehicles, is a Gurreck (which I believe may have been reduced to AR1) or some other AR2 creature, assuming any still exist. Consequently, an AP3 weapon is not only unnecessary, but also reduces the desirability of a Commando class to start with. If you can be a Rifleman and use a T21 to take down an AR3 target with the same efficiency as a Commando, then why go to all the trouble of being a Commando? It's also worth noting that Commando weapons are EXTREMELY slow, greater than 10 second delays for heavy weapons, and have a limited number of uses, whereas a T21 has infinite uses, and fires at a reasonable speed.
That said, though, DO NOT make the T21 a curiosity or a popgun. It should carry a heavy, heavy blow. The figures I've seen so far for T21s (pre-nerf) seem to me to be fairly close to what I would put them at, with the exception of the AP value. This should be AP2, and Lasers should be AP1, simply to make a clear and marked distinction between the two. Lasers, even at AP1, would still be significantly damaging weapons, as even without AP2, they still do more damage than any other available rifle, shot for shot, and at a comparable speed.
And, on a somewhat unrelated side-note, the attribute range for Plumbum Iron needs to be dramatically increased. E11 weapons are currently gated by extremely poor Conductivity and Overall Quality for the necessary Plumbum Iron, when for the certification level and difficulty to manufacture them, as well as their place in the Star Wars mythos, they should be quite powerful, hopefully comparable to a mid-range laser rifle, but at a higher speed.
well maybe, this nerf might not have been the total best. but think of it this way.. if you didn't get killed by the rocket you sure as hell got killed or mega injured by the splash damage. a flame thrower... hmm? can anyone tell me how to dodge that? or even servive that.. yea maybe your armor could talk it... maybe.. then what about our acid rifle? base on real life... wouldn't that kill the armor?
lets say your playing quake lol.. if i wanted to be good witha rocket launcher.. i never aimed for the person.. i aimed for the floor he was walking on. please don't compare a rifle in real life to a rocket in real life. then try to apply it in this game. i mean my Launcher pistol doesn't have any Ar points at all. i find that pretty weird.. thats like saying.
"Advicer :Well mister president we launch the nukes on japan,"
"President : good good, how many did we hit?"
"person : none sure, we missed. they dodged the splash damage, and the rest was absorbed by there skin"
"President : dear god man, Someone set them up the sniper"
"person : y not send a commando, they should beable to handle the masses, and tanks:
"President : No.. the commando is to weak and costs to much. but if i do i'd use them as cannon foder, just like there Teras Kasi Cousins. but we can send a sniper in and they can effectivly clear out all of japan with nothing more then 1 shot kills, they can even fire threw tanks and blow the driver in the head. yes.. we'll go with the snipers"
"person : i see.. i'll place the order"
Soe Dev : <evil>yess.....! just the way i planned it, but i don't like that they can use them as cannon foder, hmm lets make teras kasi and commando.. lose health the higher they get into there class. mahaha"
"Commando : Noooo We suck again!"
The sniper rifle is not the best AP weapon the military has. Granted a .50 AP round MAY penetrate the armor of some OLDER model APC's but don't even think about it against an MBT (Main Battle Tank). As was pointed out. It seems people are confusing the issue between armor types. There are two types : body and vehicle. Against body armor a small arms (yes, even the Barrett .50 is a small arm) are better since they are more accurate. Against vehicle armor you need heavy weapons such as a shaped charge rocket. The shaped charge does not have an impact over a wide range. A shaped charge is designed to focus the blast onto a small area. A super-heated jet of gas burns thru the armor and into the interior of the vehicle. That is how a shaped charge works and is a similiar concept to a sabot round in a way.
The fix then would be that no body armor in the game could be more than 1 or 2 at the most. Vehicle would be 2 or 3. Small arms would be capped to AP 2 and heavy weapons would be for the rest. This would ensure that small arms would be effective against what they are suppose to be. People. While heavy weapons are best against larger armored targets.
See now, this man makes sense.
I think the T21 should do massive dmg, but keep the AP at 2. It would be the equivalent of a Barrett Sniper Rifle.