Rifleman Archive

Thread: a carbineers issue with a krayt jawa rifle.

PyscoJuggalo
Fri Feb 20, 2004 3:11 am
#27

Believe me it's better that it's Kraytable.


If it's not Kraytable it's going to be Goraxable and then you have a real big problem. Gorax bone shards do the same thing as Krayt tissue but with feedmechinisms. Heres the kicker all guns that use a feed mechanism only use one. Hence one Gorax Bone shard instead of 6 Identical Krayt tissues.


See the problem, oh and the Tangle can be Gorax enhanced.





I am the Mad Rifleman, Writer of the Riflenomican. I understand the secrets of the Dark Ancient Developer ones and their Evil. (Maniacal Laughter) He he he he he, Ha ha ha ha ha, Aha ha ha ha!
CM's are like nukes. You have them just incase you need them, but as soon as you start using yours the other guys start using theirs and everything goes to hell-PyschoticChipmunk -The First line of the Riflenomican.
Eaca
Fri Feb 20, 2004 1:03 pm
#28






Cardco2 wrote:

we need more speed.(alot more. ) and working specials.



and the rifleman need to stop shooting there T21's at 1nce per second.








Yay, yet another person who thinks we should all be pistoleers but with different damage ranges and speeds
RevRush
Fri Feb 20, 2004 2:18 pm
#29

I'd think, to be a truly a type of Stun damage weapon, the Jawa Rifle should bypass all armor and only be affected minimally by PSG's, but wouldn't the same also be true about electricity weapons?


I'd rather just leave the Jawa Rifle the same.



"Of all the things I've lost in life, I miss my Mind the most."--Rifleman Motto
undeadrooster
Fri Feb 20, 2004 2:20 pm
#30

"JAWA ION RIFLE: a anti machine ion rifle uised by jawa to disable droids. it is nearly useless agenst peaple."


At lower levels of rifleman, against non-armored opponents, compared to other rifles, it is. Only with Strafeshot2 or Flushing/Startleshot2 do you have enough of a damage multiplier to do any really damage against armor... and if you think about it, how different is a machine from an armored opponent?


I think this is all sort of a moot point though, as the descriptions for all of the weapons and classes were written for them back in August, and as everyone knows, a lot has changed.



_________________________________________________________
I got banned from Bria and all I got was this stupid T-shirt
"I swear I did not have sexual intercourse with that Bantha."
Strength of an idea doesn't involve silly things like the truth or logic, you just make proclaimations as loudly as possible without leaving room for compromise.
Sotaudi
Fri Feb 20, 2004 5:20 pm
#31






Necro- wrote:

interesting post. but i agree (and i AM a rifleman)


the jawa ion rifle is MADE to kill droids (eg at-st's)


as for the rifleman comments - not sure about the specials but speed yes.







Problem with your analysis is the Jawa is worthless against an ATSt.



Sotaudi Crestlighter
Master Rifleman / Master Combat Medic
"The Physician's Pain Reference"

Former Professions
Master Doctor | Master Swordsman | Master Brawler
Master Scout | Ranger



Sotaudi
Fri Feb 20, 2004 6:37 pm
#32



Please do not take this as a criticism, just some friendly, thoughtful analysis:


To begin with, I do not know where people get the idea that something that overwhelms the electrical systems of whatever it hits would have no effect on living creatures. Our bodies use electrical impulses to function. An Ion rifle would work against those electrical systems, maybe not as effectivley as against a droid, but a powerful enough charge could fry your brain just as easily as a droid's circuits.


Also, AP1 does not "slice through armor." AP1 vs. AR1 cancel each other out, making the weapon do its normal damage. That means that the damage is reduced by 25% over that same damage against an unarmored target, and the damage is reduced further by any resistances to that damage type. Even if a target is vulnerable to that damage type, that means that both Armor and resistance factors are ignored. Thus, while the damage is not reduced by resistances, neither is it boosted because of AP. You will just get your weapon's nomal damage range unadjusted for AP. Again, a 25% reduction over that same damage against an unarmored opponent.


But the real issue here is that you said yourself that you did not buy stun resistant armor. Whether someone just could not be bothered spending the money or they could not afford it, as in your case, the bottom line is that you went up against an opponent that had a weapon that was built to fight against the type of armor you are wearing. And you knew that going in, but you engaged him intentionally anyway. That was a gamble on your part that you lost. The fact that it was a Jawa against stun vulnerable armor is pretty irrelevant. Because the same thing would have happened if the only armor you could afford was vulnerable to energy and they had a T21.


But there are two other interesting things. First, you said, "i like sub buffs. not full buffs ... and I hate armor." Was your mind buffed? Were you wearing a helm? Did you use muon or foods to regain mind once you started getting hit there? If not, what did you expect? You knew he was a rifleman when you started. He had a huge mind pool from which to draw for his specials, and and you knew he could your attack mind. So if you not only went against him with non-Stun resistant armor, but went in with a an unbuffed mind pool yourself, again, you had all the information you needed to know that this was a bad gamble.


Take for instance last night. One of my guild mates who was overt answered a call to train someone at our new shuttle port. It turned out that the person calling for training was an Imp who was grouped with another Imp, one or both of whom were overt. (Note, I do not think that this was a setup as they would have not known my friend was overt, and the fact that everyone was overtmeant the battle was inevitable.) They started attacking him, and he called for help. I could not get there before he got incapped, but I arrived shortly thereafter. They had not incapped him, because one of them had gotten a fire dot on him and I suspect they were letting him burn. I was not buffed, but neither was I overt, so I quickly downed a Pixie and some mind foods, switched to my Ion rifle (because I had seen them earlier and knew they were wearing composite armor), and ran by my guildmate and healed him to pickup a TEF. I continued running, and I stopped a safe distance away. By this time, the Imps, who had gone towards the shuttle, started coming back. One of them came towards me shooting, and the other went towards my guildmate.


I bring this up because I reasonably easily dispatched both of them, but it was not because my Jawa (non-Krayt by the way) or I are ubber. It was because they, like you made, poor choices. First, I was not overt. I only had a TEF. That meant they had to fire the first shot. Second, they did not assess who had just shown up. Finally, both were buffed and in armor, but one had very little mind, and the one who started shooting at me and coming towards me did so starting from Max range. He had a more mind that the other, but he was starting at his worst range (firing a pistol) and had to move all the way through my best range. He was dead by the time he got 3/4 of the way to me because, even though I took damage, I was buffed both in mind and in health and action from the spice and foods. When I turned to the second guy, I was surprised to see his mind so low, because I know him to be an experienced player. He went down quicker.


Now, to recap, they came unprepared to fight a rifleman. I can also say that the second guy knew this too, as he sent me a tell afterwards saying he had been worried a Rifleman might be around before all this started. Not only where they knowingly unprepared, they did not bother assessing who they were facing, while I had the advantage having had seen them earlier and knew who they were and what some of their skills were before I came back to town. Then, they gave me the opportunity to start firing at them from my weapon's optimal distance and their worst (one is almost pure melee, the other was using a pistol and at least one has some commando).


Had they buffed mind, not bothered with my friend who they had already incapped or not bothered with me until they dispatched him again, had they evaluated me before attacking and had they closed on me before firing on me, the battle likely would have turned out much differently. I know, because I have faced the second guy in a battle before and lost to him when he was able to get close to me.


Yet, one of the first things he said in his tell was that Riflemen are "powerful." Yes, when we get to play our game and do not let you play yours, we are. And the Jawa helps us be that way because it neutralizes some of the defenses people can put up with armor. But had they not played my game, and had taken a moment to assess the situation, a moment they had because I could not attack them till they attacked me, they could have put me at a disadvantage.


My point is that the problem is not the Jawa in this case or in your case. The problem was that they, like you,gambled, and lost when the odds were unnecessarily stacked against you. Part of it was because he was firing at you when you could not fire at him, but you knowingly went into the battle with some correctable disadvantages, and the gamble did not pay off this time. But I also might point out that you had killed 3 other people just before that. A 3 to 1 kill ratio is not bad and from what it sounds like, had it not been for the wall incident, the battle could have gone either way, so, to tell the truth, I am not sure why you think that the problem was the Jawa.


Again, this is not to criticize, but to give a friendly analysis.


Message Edited by Sotaudi on 02-20-2004 05:43 PM


Message Edited by Sotaudi on 02-20-2004 05:45 PM

Message Edited by Sotaudi on 02-20-2004 05:47 PM



Sotaudi Crestlighter
Master Rifleman / Master Combat Medic
"The Physician's Pain Reference"

Former Professions
Master Doctor | Master Swordsman | Master Brawler
Master Scout | Ranger



Kragen2uk
Fri Feb 20, 2004 9:36 pm
#33

I do think thats a neat idea - increase the damage of our shots, but decrease the speed we shoot at it makes a lot of sense considering the role we are meant to play - essentialy snipers.


I do see a valid point here though - we are blessed with a hairdryer, wheras I think only fencers have a stun weapon. Perhaps they should be distributed more evenly, however I dont see your point fully seeing as you were'nt wearing armor s he should have killed you even quicker with a different gun


On many servers (including chimera) the resources to make stun layers have'nt yet spawned... at all. The only protection is shield gens which are hard to maintain and offer little protection anyway.



11pt Master Doctor - Master Rifleman - Kragen Aslo - Chimera

Kabar Buffpacks - Stocked by Bari and Kragen - Theed (- 7332 , 1139)
Retired since June 2004
Kragen2uk
Fri Feb 20, 2004 9:51 pm
#34

Oops didnt realise there was a second page...


Ive posted this elsewhere too but Sotaudi has a very good point - riflemen are not powerful. A rifleman will not duel someone else unless they have no mele skills - they need to start at range to win - a rifleman has to keep control of the battle and keep you where he (or she) wants you, trying to fight with a TEF is usualy bad news for a rifleman as one of the advantages we have is firing the first shot - at range. Perhaps one of the reasons people want to nerf rifleman is because they cant be bothered do think of better and more subtle ways of taking the advnatage of range away from us TO engage a rifleman with no means of effectively closing the distance - for example no cover or no KD shot, is tbh pure suicide, however for a rifleman fighting in a city like bestine is a nightmare as there are many many opportunities for a rilfeman to become surrounded or for someone to get close enough to us to burstrun and nail us, so instead we either have to fight ina differently designed city (theed is brilliant - lots of open space), or be exceptionaly careful and tactical when we go into the center of bestine.


I am starting to see from my little experience as a rifleman that there are some places where we can win, and some where we cant - anchorhead is very open, riflemen can and do win there, wheras bestine is closed - battles can and will go badly. I'm not fully sure what my point is here lol, perhaps for players used to fighting over shorter distances they are not used to thinking long range where obstacles take an effect - in a mele v mele battle it makes little difference where you fight , the same with a pistol fight - you almost always have LOS.



11pt Master Doctor - Master Rifleman - Kragen Aslo - Chimera

Kabar Buffpacks - Stocked by Bari and Kragen - Theed (- 7332 , 1139)
Retired since June 2004
belgradar
Fri Feb 20, 2004 10:46 pm
#35

befor we fix the jawa rifle lets fix the traval time between planets. make it take a few days to a few weeks game time. just like it supposed to be. god some you are such tards.
Kragen2uk
Fri Feb 20, 2004 11:46 pm
#36

rofl that is the most unrelated comment ive ever seen



11pt Master Doctor - Master Rifleman - Kragen Aslo - Chimera

Kabar Buffpacks - Stocked by Bari and Kragen - Theed (- 7332 , 1139)
Retired since June 2004
Page 3 of 3