Rifleman Archive

Thread: PETITION t21 sniper version

HarlequinMK19
Tue Apr 05, 2005 4:56 am
#27

I'm enjoying this thread...nothing wrong with talking about "real steel"...just wish the weather would warm up around here so I could get in a pleasant day at the range.


And yeah, I agree with 100% of the stuff Wastesaid about the SWAT modifed assault rifles...I've had enough real life experience with that to say so



-Aaron'shin De'wintres
"There is no art more beautiful and diverse than the art of death."

The fire, it knows me
I can walk through the blaze without a mark
Forever it owes me
The life I lost in the dark
GrafvonSoden
Tue Apr 05, 2005 8:47 am
#28


Yes,most Marines snipers in VN went with the modified Remington 700. I did know one guy who actually use a weatherby 270 tho. LOL, guess I'm part of "History" now :/


Waste93
Tue Apr 05, 2005 12:33 pm
#29






Insidius wrote:


Oh, so you're telling me that the m16 wasn't used as a sniper rifle in the Vietnam war?

My history books and the vets I've spoken to must be wrong then.

And when my point was that it could be done, and just that, it doesn't matter if it's ineffective in your opinion.

The fact is, it's a fantasy weapon, and the point is moot anyway.

Message Edited by Insidius on 04-05-2005 12:02 AM




That's pretty much what I'm telling you. Putting a scope on a rifle doesn't make it a sniper rifle. And that is exactly what they did in the examples you are citing. Sniper weapons are highly specialized pieces of equipment. Just because something looks like one doesn't mean it is. They put a scope on the old M1 carbine at one time (M3 Carbine). Was that suddenly a sniper rifle because of that? During WWII the Germans put scopes on just about everything they had at one time, including the StG44 (first assult rifle). There is a reason it didn't catch on.


During Vietnam the US had to restart their sniper program. They had pretty much shut it down between conflicts. This also meant that they had a lack of adequate sniping weapons. They tried a number of ways to fill in the gap, including scoping M16s. Some even ordered regular hunting rifles from the US and had them shipped over. The official Army sniper rifle of that time was the M21. Which is an accurized M14. They put on a better barrel, glass bedded the stock, used match ammo, and of course added the scope (Redfield 3-9X). The Marines I believe went with a modified Remington 700 model.


Carlos Hathcock put a scope a .50 machine gun in Vietnam and got a kill from over a mile. Did that make it a sniper rifle? I can put a outboard motor on my car, that doesn't mean it's going to work if I drive into the water. Weapons are designed to be effective in certain circumstances, slapping a scope on them doesn't radically change that.


Simple fact is that automatic weapons make bad sniper weapons. The only reason the MG34 and the M2HB were used was because it was possible to fire them in semi-auto. The recoil while in automatic makes any shot other than the first unaimed in general. Secondly the rate of fire of on automatic weapons burns out the barrel. Which is why machine guns developed quick change barrels. The barrel will get so hot it will actually warp and the rifling inside will disappear. Which makes the high precision required for sniping impossible.


Granted that is an issue with modern weapons and since energy weapons don't have rifling less of an issue. But you still have the recoil. Also with the T21 you have the backpack. You can use clips instead of course, but you only havea couple shots. The backpack is bulky enough that a sniper wouldn't want to care it and it would definately make hiding a much more difficult proposition.


Besides those factors we have its size. The sheer bulk of the weapon makes it harder for the sniper to hide and also harder to maneuver. Also makes it harder to carry around. In this regard it is like the Barett .50 that is in use now. It is used by it isn't common issue. It's used from fixed positions, usually defensive in nature or by special forces in special circumstances. As sniper teams are either one or two people and they try to travel light, this isn't overly useful to them.


Also the range on the T21 is only 300m with the tripod (less without). Well short of sniping ranges. Yes it'sa fantasy weapon. But we have official information on it. Which indicates it is unsuitable for the sniping role. Here is the info on the T21.


BlasTech T-21 Light Repeating Blaster


Larger and more powerful than the typical blaster rifle, the BlasTech T-21 Light Repeating Blaster is the largest weapon that can be carried and used by one soldier. Primarily used in large-scale military actions, it provides support for Imperial army and stormtrooper squads as well as cover for artillery gunners. Because it is a portable weapon, it became popular among Rebel factions and is still used by some New Republic units.


At 1.5 meters in length, the T-21 is perfect for soldiers who need to set up a weapon quickly and with minimal fuss. Along with a belt-mounted tripod and a backpack generator (weighing 20 kilograms), the T-21 can be set and ready to go within 30 seconds. Although it can be wielded by a single soldier two-handed, use of the tripod improves its accuracy out to its maximum range of 300 meters.


The T-21 is capable of being powered by a power pack, but it only contains enough energy for 25 shots. However, use of the backpack generator provides near unlimited ammunition, but its firing rate is limited to one shot per second due to the generator's low cooling capacity.


The power behind the T-21's blaster bolts is amazing, being known to penetrate infantry armor, personal forcefields and even armor plating of light combat vehicles.





Colonel Waste - The Wookiee Crusader
dimmu-borgir
Wed Apr 06, 2005 2:56 pm
#30

gimmie gimmie gimie! /sign!



Dimmu Borgir

I art in thine base

Slaying thine doodz

KundoJet
Thu Apr 07, 2005 12:08 am
#31


Switching over from the standard XM-8 by changing the barrel ta 20-inch match-grade helps, but you're right that the 5.56mm round is not ideal, so this will never be a true sniper rifle. The .556 round was introduced when they determined that it would be more effective to wound the enemy with a comparitively low-power round that would tumble upon impact, ather than killing them outright with a high-powered 7.62mm round (the previous NATO standard round, roughly equivalent to a Winchester .308).


When you kill an enemy, it takes two guys half an hour to bury him. When you would an enemy, it takes a group of his comrades, a medic, a field station, transportation, doctors, nurses, hospitals, medication and rehab to take care of him. In others words, it's a much larger drain on his time and resources. Make sense, to a degree.


But a sniper's job is not to wound, it is to kill. Definitively, first shot, then bug out to avoid detection and capture. A low-powered round like the 5.56mm does not give you the flat trajectory and high penetration required to achieve that high kill probability at range. To Waste's point, that's why virtually every professional army in the world that adopted lighter round assault rifles in the latter half of the 20th century (Eastern Bloc countries used a 5.45mm round, for example) still maintained a dedicated sniper rifle, generally a match-grade model of a civilian hunting rifle. Also why you don't find many semi-automatic sniper-rifles - when you only get one shot, it had better count, and the misfeed/fire rate on self-loading weapons is too high.


Personally, I like the direction being taken so far in the CU in terms of profession roles in combat, and so long as the final weapon stats and special mods live up to the intentions, I think Riflemen and women are going to be pretty happy with the end result. Those who prefer the high-ROF "gunner" role will likely end up being happier taking some Commando, which is as it should be (insofar as the profession exists in SWG as a supporting-role heavy weapons specialist, which is not strictly how the term Commando was used in historical terms).

Message Edited by KundoJet on 04-06-2005 03:09 PM



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