Rifleman Archive
Thread: The CU and veteran thouhts...
Ackehece
Mon Apr 04, 2005 7:00 pm
#27
Waste93 wrote:
Good post. Here are my observations so far.
I made my usual Wookiee Marksman. Went to the blue frogs and got a couple weapons and credit.
Personally I've never like Tatooine much so never did the grind there. So I started the grind on the low level MOBs that were around Mos Espa.
I killed enough MOBs to get two boxes of Marksman Rifle. Didn't keep track of the number of MOBs I killed but it was probably around fifty. During that time I was only attacked once. And that was the first MOB I attacked. Every other MOB I targeted and attacked seemed to try to run away. I have no idea why.
AI is set to be much less aggro on con 1-5 creatures
I also picked up some C12 grenades to try. I was unable to use them. They use to be an innate cert. Not sure if that changed or if the old bug of Wookiees not having the C12 cert came back. But I couldn't throw them.
turned off by the devs (to many people nade grinding and kill stealing)
I tried to examine a MOB. I have Novice Scout. However there was no data on the examine window of the MOB. No explanation of this.
examine is bugged T_T
I have been using the Bowcaster. Personally I'm dissapointed in this. The sound and shot color are all wrong. Rather disappointed in this.
unfortunately - as always T_T
Shots. One strange thing about the graphics. I used both the CDEF and the Bowcaster. Both shots had a strange graphic. It wasn't a bolt. I was expecting the round bolt like graphic from before. What I got was a round bolt but it seemed to have fins. It seemed like the graphic was the round regular bolt with a flat rectange superimpossed on it. So the center round part was brighter, but there was a very visible but slighly fainter two dimensional rectangle around the bolt graphic. I didn't care for it much as I didn't find it very Star Warsy.
Threat levels. It took me a little bit to figure out the new threat level system. Besides the color there is also a number. At first I wasn't sure what the number meant. I thought it may be used to represent how many MOBs were in it's social group so you had an idea of how many MOBs may jump 'ya. It took a bit for me to figure out that it represent the MOBs level. There is also a level indicator for the player.
read the prototype faq ^_^
glad to see you around though.
/hug!
furlock1
Tue Apr 05, 2005 2:43 pm
#28
don't forget rp, fun and Star Wars 
And Yes I like the CU I have found few things that I don't like soo far..
And Yes I like the CU I have found few things that I don't like soo far..
Short_Timer
Wed Apr 06, 2005 6:54 am
#29
Ok go3..............u dont like it the proposed system or the weapons? Thats fine................but some constructive reasoning behind this might be useful?
I think its a little harsh to say they are dumbing it down.How much dumber can u get than 1 uber char with buffs etc soloing the highest of high-end content? Sure it has EQ elements but lets be honest EQ appears to have been a lot more successful in terms of longevity than SWG so maybe they are doing something right?
I've been playing since Euro release, have done alot of the professions but have stuck with rifleman pretty much since day 1. I was horrified by the changes when I first tried them, absolutely hated them. Why? Coz I didnt understand them. I didnt know that the critters werent all balanced, that the weapon damages werent necessarily correct etc etc. But now I know what has been implemented and wot hasnt, and I can now see an awful of merit in these changes. Sure it takes some getting used to and sure the partial implementation of CU has caused a lot of misunderstanding and resentment with a certain group of players but honestly does anyone not think that the game in its current form is prematurely stale?
If all this was change for the sake of change then people would leave in droves. If it is change to try and improve and grow and develop this game into something bigger and better than surely we should all embrace this? Its early days and still really too soon to be making sweeping statements about the state of the CU, we need to see more of it implemented on TC5. I mean for gods sake we are in an elite profession forum when elite professions arent even in the TC5 yet..................except fencer it seems!!
If anyone truly does not like the new system and isnt prepared to give it a chance or learn to adapt then there really is no point in maintaining your subscription. Thats not a dig at anyone so dont flame me please I grew increasingly fed up with WoW, EQ2 and UO so at various times I quit and cancelled my subs. I didnt rant and moan about it, just walked away.
I grew increasingly fed up with WoW, EQ2 and UO so at various times I quit and cancelled my subs. I didnt rant and moan about it, just walked away.Life really is too short to take things to seriously. Ultimately we play these things for entertainment, if its not entertaining you then find something that will....................
Penti Ascari - MRM / MSL Chimaera
go3
Wed Apr 06, 2005 7:59 am
#30
Reasoning behind? Simple, it doesn't need to be done. Furthermore, it's a cop-out by SOE. Rather than continue the ingenuity that brought this game to life, they just folded and went to your basic MMO style combat. Bleh. I liked SWG for being SWG, different. Not simply a re-skinned EQ, which is where we're headed(Loot revamp, anyone?)
Don't get me wrong, a Combat Update is needed, and I've been one of the loudest proclaimers of it. The only profession I've played longer than Rifleman is Pikeman, and I've been doing that since 6/03. I'm well aware of the problems that this game has, but I can say that now I honestly believe these changes do not bode well for the future of SWG. Everyone knew what was wrong: armor, buffs, DOT weapons and Jedi. I assumed the fix would be pretty simple too, nerf 'em all(and delete the Jedi!) The problem wasn't the combat system, or how weapons were done.
To me, this is just one bad decision after another. I see it as just another sign that things are being done to make the game more popular, and increase revenue, not make the game better. True, some good will come of this CU, such as the removal of DOT weapons and saber block getting nerfed, but in the end, I see SWG simply becoming another MMORPG, nothing special. The novelty of it is being removed piece by piece.
And yes, life is too short to take things like this seriously, which is why I'm posting from work and not on my own time.
Don't get me wrong, a Combat Update is needed, and I've been one of the loudest proclaimers of it. The only profession I've played longer than Rifleman is Pikeman, and I've been doing that since 6/03. I'm well aware of the problems that this game has, but I can say that now I honestly believe these changes do not bode well for the future of SWG. Everyone knew what was wrong: armor, buffs, DOT weapons and Jedi. I assumed the fix would be pretty simple too, nerf 'em all(and delete the Jedi!
) The problem wasn't the combat system, or how weapons were done. To me, this is just one bad decision after another. I see it as just another sign that things are being done to make the game more popular, and increase revenue, not make the game better. True, some good will come of this CU, such as the removal of DOT weapons and saber block getting nerfed, but in the end, I see SWG simply becoming another MMORPG, nothing special. The novelty of it is being removed piece by piece.
And yes, life is too short to take things like this seriously, which is why I'm posting from work and not on my own time.
lammergeier
Wed Apr 06, 2005 9:37 am
#31
Short_Timer wrote:I think its a little harsh to say they are dumbing it down.Penti Ascari - MRM / MSL Chimaera
harsh? no. accurate? yes.
can't get much dumber right now than:
CL of player/group vs CL of target
got a higher CL? you win! lower? you lose!
I'm assuming the eventual 'balance' of creatures will help to fix this... but CL200 kreetles are only one of the problems here (and CL5 peko peko albatrosses are the same symptom).
right now, there are hidden 'defense' and 'offense' stats based on CL (for players, groups of players, and mobs)... and that means that your actions in combat have an infinitesimal effect on winning the fight, while CL rules.
I'm not trying to sound negative, but... combat has been dumbed down.
edit: of course, right now NPC's will clean your clock, flat out.
Message Edited by lammergeier on 04-06-2005 12:38 PM
Musicmaestro
Wed Apr 06, 2005 10:00 am
#32
Great post Veustah, after hearing alot of complaining and non-productive banter about the CU in guild chat your post was a refreshing read. I also agree that the first months were the most enjoyable.
jopenack
Wed Apr 06, 2005 10:16 am
#33
Old timer and a rifleman, If I could go back to Oct 2003 I would in a second lol. yes even before mounts/vehicles exploration was fun then :-)
Ok enough of the past and into today
The curb as of right now is both good and bad, not doom and gloom.
As aMCH/RM I am worried more so for my Ch than rifleman but that will come into testing later. The grind on tc was a little slow but is picking up. at first I was a little confused and compare it to writing with my left hand. after a little while it did remind me more of the summer of 03. I think it may all work out in the end, alot of bugs and melee seems to pvp in god mode right now compared to ranged. I am hoping for more balance lol.
The graphics in the game hmm this is another story. too much fluff. If the time to make fluffy balls of fire was replaced with balancing code and bug research... suffice it to say too much isnt always a good thing lol.
One thing I have noticed in the forums is the lack of ability of many players to try and do things differently. maybe its me but I have seen many forum post on damage numbers for weapons vs npc/creatures.
Much of the math is flawed. the majority of people on TC are standing and firing at things from the max distance allowable. The game dynamics have changed.
Kneel and Prone now effect damage not accuracy. you can double if not triple damage by using different posture changes at different ranges. yes range matters too.
much of the doom and gloom is the persons inability to adapt and forget old habits. as a creature handler I am forced to adapt for most of my game experience even today. since I am never buffed and rarely wear armor. maybe thats why saw things that it would seem many in the forums overlooked.
I think when its all said and done this may be best for the game as a whole. If they dont launch the live version untill the major bugs are fixed. in a couple of months it may very well be what is needed
time shall tell.
Good Luck
Short_Timer
Thu Apr 07, 2005 6:04 am
#34
Ok, go3, you say your reasoning is thatit doesnt need to be done, and then in your next paragraph you say a combat upgrade is needed? I am going to assume you just dont like wot they are actually doing, but u arent opposed in principle to a revamp. SO instead of wot they are doing u would have just waved a huge nerf-bat at almost every major element in the game, screwing armoursmiths, weaponsmiths, doctors, rangers, looters, the economy etc etc. Is that really a better solution than wot we are getting?
Ok, u dont want a re-badged EQ.............is that wot we are getting? I cant see it? Is the fact that a lot of things that make any single player uber being removed the problem? you arent a l33t kiddie are u? (j/k mate as ur comment about jedi told me all i needed to know 
)
)
jopenack wrote:
much of the doom and gloom is the persons inability to adapt and forget old habits.
I think this comment sums up a lot of wot I feel, and that isnt directed at anyone in particular. Considering we have only been allowed to "touch" a small part of the proposed CU can any of us honestly say that we know wot we're talking about? Lammer seems to have formed a very definate opinion on the combat system already..............dude, we've seen a fraction of it mate, lets see some more before u start saying it dumbed down. I still maintain there is nothing dumber than a rifleman standing still spamming strafeshot while not getting hurt coz of his uber armor and buffs? Am I the only one that thinks this is lame?
We need active, interactive combat and that is wot the CU intends to bring us. All of us running around with no armor using the 4 combat skills we have from novice rifles is hardly a fair test of this.
I dont know if its going to be good. I hope it is, but i'm also fairly sure its going to be better than wot we have. I guess I must be a little more open minded than some, but lets all just be prepared to revisit these discussions once we know more and have tried it longer.
BTW - If it was up to me I would remove all jedi from the l33t kiddies and make having a jedi a reward for the people that can have reasoned debates in a friendly manner without any l33t speak..................anyone for jedi guys?
Ackehece
Thu Apr 07, 2005 7:54 am
#35
Short_Timer wrote:
BTW - If it was up to me I would remove all jedi from the l33t kiddies and make having a jedi a reward for the people that can have reasoned debates in a friendly manner without any l33t speak..................anyone for jedi guys?
dang... I will never be a jedi now T_T
I actually have never chased after jedi because I have seen to many good players burn out doing it. I would rather have fun then be a jedi!
BraccusD
Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:34 pm
#36
I played for over a year since launch but have kinda left SWG for the lastseveral months. The uber templates, armor/weapons,buffage really made it boring since the game became too easy and thus too much soloing. I tried EQ2 but that has too much based on level I feel, however, what was done right on EQ2 was the grouping aspect which really requires roles to be layed out kinda like they are laying out for the CU. I hope the CU is not level based like EQ2 because all mobs are basically the same then and everyone basically has the same equipment (just looksdifferent with slightly different stats). SWG did a number of things right like varying resistances, varying speedsof mobs, special attacks, decay of armor and weapons, crafting. The game is equipment based more than "level" based and I feel equipment does still need to play an important role (just not in an unbalancing way). The roles design for the CU has given me some hope, but if the combat becomestoo level based I will probably let my subscription run out. Hearing about terrain being a factor is also hopeful news. The whole GCW could be something great too. So still holding out some hope that I'll uncancel my subscription, and glad to see some positive posts. My MBE,rifleman was never designed to be all that uber.
- Drachus
lammergeier
Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:10 am
#37
short_timer:
I've formed a very definite opinion on the CL system.
it's not a fraction... it's the foundation.
the CL system makes combat MUCH less 'engaging'.
it devours the possibilities of specials, tactics, and more.
I've posted extensively on the mechanics of the system, and the flaws with it. I'm TESTING it constantly, and I'm providing constructive feedback.
my opinion on the CURB? I LOVE IT... with the exception of the CL system.
the marauder recon helmet? the new weapons? stacking serialized loot? profession roles?
the main problems with the CURB are in the IMPLEMENTATION (mostly due to bugs), rather than the theory.
there are a LOT of bugs.
the CL theory, however, has not been explained to my liking... and it seems that the various iterations of the CL implementation reinforce the problems it has.
I've formed a very definite opinion on the CL system.
it's not a fraction... it's the foundation.
the CL system makes combat MUCH less 'engaging'.
it devours the possibilities of specials, tactics, and more.
I've posted extensively on the mechanics of the system, and the flaws with it. I'm TESTING it constantly, and I'm providing constructive feedback.
my opinion on the CURB? I LOVE IT... with the exception of the CL system.
the marauder recon helmet? the new weapons? stacking serialized loot? profession roles?
the main problems with the CURB are in the IMPLEMENTATION (mostly due to bugs), rather than the theory.
there are a LOT of bugs.
the CL theory, however, has not been explained to my liking... and it seems that the various iterations of the CL implementation reinforce the problems it has.
Short_Timer
Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:54 am
#38
Well, I apologise if i made assumptions over wot u think. It would appear that we agree on the most part
True, the CURB is buggy at the moment and my primary concern is that with only 4 weeks (approx) til it goes live some of the fundamentals do not seem to be being addressed.
True, having a visible and defined CL is not going to be to everyones liking, but whilst grinding up my potential TC5 Rifleman I actually used this frequently to gauge my potential success. I suspect that this was probably a hidden "stat" originally and is just being more rigourously implemented and made more visible due to the "krayt soloing" scenario?
I think as long as we can all have reasoned debates over the merit (or not) of these various elements then the CURB can be better accepted and understood by those players that are not as "verbal" as the likes of us.
The elite proffs are now on TC-5, as are the revised weapons, which combined with the larger scope of rebalanced opponents should make for some more interesting testing. I hope we can all continue this constructive discussion once we have explored this next level of testing.
lammergeier
Fri Apr 08, 2005 3:07 am
#39
Short_Timer wrote:Well, I apologise if i made assumptions over wot u think. It would appear that we agree on the most partTrue, the CURB is buggy at the moment and my primary concern is that with only 4 weeks (approx) til it goes live some of the fundamentals do not seem to be being addressed.True, having a visible and defined CL is not going to be to everyones liking, but whilst grinding up my potential TC5 Rifleman I actually used this frequently to gauge my potential success. I suspect that this was probably a hidden "stat" originally and is just being more rigourously implemented and made more visible due to the "krayt soloing" scenario?I think as long as we can all have reasoned debates over the merit (or not) of these various elements then the CURB can be better accepted and understood by those players that are not as "verbal" as the likes of us.The elite proffs are now on TC-5, as are the revised weapons, which combined with the larger scope of rebalanced opponents should make for some more interesting testing. I hope we can all continue this constructive discussion once we have explored this next level of testing.
I don't care that the CL is visible and defined... except that it robs master scouts (and by extension, all rangers) of one of their unique perks (CL visible on /exa). swgcreatures.com already replaces the majority of scout/ranger skills, for better or worse.
what bothers me?
one of the rifle testing group disbanded to test the /cover skill. why? well, they couldn't get it to work while grouped... more specifically, they couldn't get it to work.
after removing corpses, structures, other players, mobs, lairs, vehicles, and everything else from a 30m+ radius, the ungrouped rifle tried it again... and it didn't work.
they relogged... which took some time, considering the wonky server zones and login server problems... and tried it again.
SUCCESS!
for, as Ackehece put it "about 1/10th of a second". immediate aggro and combat ensued.
since the fella testing was ungrouped, he was sitting at a lower CL than the mob... instead of nuking AND tanking the mob, as he had done grouped (because that's what rifles do now: DPS = hate = have fun tanking!), he dropped in two hits.
dmg grouped? reasonable.
dmg solo? dead.
a heal wouldn't save him, though most of the group ran to him to offer one. his only salvation was with the group leader... me... re-inviting him before the next hit.
if nothing else, the CL system allows for instant griefing:
group up, go hunting, and /kick the player you want to hurt out... they'll lose the group CL bonus, and they'll die.
this CL system is the foundation for all combat. while this may serve as an effective gate to the solo-ing of endgame content (something that DOES need to be addressed), it does it at the expense of the entire CLsubXX game.
crafters? entertainers? rangers? CL1. one-hit incaps any time they leave a city (and often INSIDE cities, too).
ONE-HIT KILLS ARE NEVER 'FUN'. they are seldom 'BALANCED'. the CL system, as it stands, is simply a mechanism to allow one-hit kills, griefing, and gated play to all manner of us.
THAT's my problem.