Rifleman Archive
Thread: What a Rifleman is Strenghts and Weaknesses 101
In pvp all I do is spam strafe shot II with a high damage pre nerf T21, and it doesnt matter if its just 1 person or 5 people, they all die so fast, u dont even have time to think "oh was he wearing composite? maybe i should change to stun.....", you just hit strafe shot II from max range and watch them die in 5 seconds maximum (fully buffed and with composite) while u run backwards kiting. Riflemen will get NO better than it is now, I will bet you that the next change to Riflemen will be a nerf, because all the whiners out there crying about our high damage.
As a rifleman just remember RANGE is god. Try to get as much range in between you and your opponent as possible. If they send a pet on u, kite their pet with strafe shot II while running backwards, and i guarantee u will incap the owner 90% of the time before the pets dead (if its a BIG HAM pet that is).
Otherwise our only weakness is ranged knockdown, and panic shot. I hate panic shot with a passion, it has landed on me every **edit** time in pvp, and i tend to stand there like a stunned mullet, unable to heal myself or fire back. Tragically this ability can be chain shotted, so u are unable to shoot back indefinitely (needs a fix imo).
Thats my experiences with being a master rifleman in a nutshell.
hmmm, see even in this statement you make a small mistake saying we are at our best... you say you use a prenerf
t-21.
think about that. for this to work you have to use an all but unattainable weapon that can no longer be made ever.
if we are so good why do you need to use a weapon that the devs removed?
Why does everyone say you can't wear armor as a Rifleman? I wear full advanced composite almost 100% of the time, and never run into a mind problem, granted I have doc 0-2-3-0 and max Mind/Focus.. Mind is never an issue for me even without using stat foods, when I delve into food Rhyscate and Breath of Heaven I can litteraly spam any special for zero mind use in armor.... without it Laser RIfle uses28 mind for Strafe 2, slightly less for headshot 2..
for the sake of comparison, i stated that as a"pure" rifleman (as if you had NO other combat/support classes) - it is very difficult to wear anything but the lightest armors.
I'm a doctor as well, and obviously i have no problem wearing armor either - that is part of the strategy needed to minimize your weaknesses as a rifleman.
As it goes, at least in my experience climbing through rifleman, I've noticed I use considerably LESS mind pool by using the lower end specials from Anti-Snipe and Special Abilities. In PvE I tend to use a Suppression Fire 1/Flurry Shot 1 combo for a (hopeful) KD. And although cover becomes a pain is the arse sometimes I've had great luck with Conceal Shot when dealing with high HAM creatures or other mobs (particularly useful against Stormtroopers and Dark Troopers 
) and it's actually helped me more in solo hunts to get xp than any other skill in the profession.
note: you do not have to /takecover to fire concealshot or surprise shot. 
just stay outside of 40m. (and surprise shot is NOT the same as concealshot - targets will shoot back after the first shot).
TakeshiRyuuko said,
And although cover becomes a pain is the arse sometimes I've had great luck with Conceal Shot ...
I will agree that Concealshot is a great solo tool and that cover is a pain, but if you are thinking that Concealshot requires cover, I have good news for you. While neither Supriseshot nor Concealshot will break cover, only SupriseShot requires cover (even then some report it working when not in cover). There is no such requirement for Concealshot. It works exactly the same with or without being in cover. So next time go prone (to help deter detection) and fire away with Concealshot. It will work just fine.
lol...I've just been doing just that for the past couple days at the Woolamander temple and at a couple other places on Yavin 4... Using concealshot while standing out in the middle of nowhere and still killing the entire pack of woolamander without so much a spit wad flying in my general direction.
I have noticed though that, if need be or by fluke of circumstance, while I'm in cover I've been able to stay relatively closer to my targets and still pack the same amount of damage as out at 50-60 m. At one point I had an angler that was constantly moving around and kept getting closer to me finally he stopped about 26m away and I still went unnoticed while I pelted it with conceal shot.
Oh well either way it's a good tactic I've come to stick to using while solo.
Thanks for the tip.
Jeisyn, I cannot disgree more:
This is my template as a human rifleperson, built for PvP:
HAM: health400/400/400, action 400/400/400 mind 1100/900/1000. Quite clearly, I have minimized my health/action tats to maximise my mind stats.
Professions: Master Doctor, Rifleperson 4/0/0/3 (shortly 4/0/0/4 once I get another 10K combat xp), Brawler 0/0/4/0 (for the melee defence to counter rifleperson wekness and still do mind damage).
Very likely I shall trade in the brawler skills to master rifleperson when the next big patch comes in that includes damage mitification.
Despite being Master Doctor, I consider myself a Rifleperson. I decided I needed Doctorso I could buff my health/action stats and so maximise my base mind stats. All well and good so far. But, through great experience, I find that the only time I die solo-ing PvE is when I actually bother to use my special moves. They hurt me more than they help.
Yes, I will improve solo when I bother with the Rifleperson trees that are currently totally irrelevant to PvP (specifically, the conceal shots). My big problem is that to wear significant armour I not only need Doctor buffs (which I can do myself, but which all Riflepeople need if they bias their stats to mind), I also need the Entertainer buffs. They may or may not be easy to get if you are overt, depending on the entertainer (faction, where, when, their attitude). Certainly Doctor buffs are much, much easier to get.
There is also the problem with base damage. I totally disagree that we can compare with other elite classes. I grouped with a commando the other day, he was killing creatures as soon as I could target them, creatures it would take two to three shots to kill at best using specials, attracting aggro. I can hope to regularly do 1500 hps damage with the best laser rifle I can find, rarely more than that (and I don't agree the T21 is better, it sosts more Mind with more variable results, the DLT20a can be just as good, a weapon available at the first novice rifleperson skill box)). The commando was blasting them to bits with 3000 hps damage with his flamethrower.
And don't talk about range. It's next to impossible to keep another player at preferred range in PvP. I won't even bother to mention the rooted -50 laser rifle at best (long) range (doh!). Why haven't SOE bothered to fix that after months of live gaming? Why isn't the scatterpistol acid, why isn't the tusken kinetic, why isn't the T21 blast? How difficult is it for SOE to make these trivial weapon template changes?
And dizzy/lower posture moves? I have never, ever successfully made one of these land on a big mob. And I've tried many times because in a group it's the only special moves that can be useful, the group will kill the mob through health damage much quicker than I can with mind-specific shots, so I simply use the standard attack to help bring down health.
The mooted changes to special move costs should help us greatly. We are still weaker than most because aur mind is not as easily healed as others (needs one particular highly-skilled profession, as opposed to the ubiquitous novice medic).
In short, rifleperson is fine for PvE with conceal moves or when aggro can be avoided, totally ouclassed by other combat classes in PvP. The T21 desperately needs to be blast damage. In my opinion, no combat class should do more damage than another, that's just unbalancing and leads to preferred professions (CH, BH, Commando, as is now). Instead, elite professions should have a wider range of damage types and timed crowd-control moves.We have no advantage over any other combat class except for the poor Carbineer, and we kill ourselves more quickly than any other class by using our specials.
That's our hugest problem, only one specific profession, and pretty highy-skilled one at that, that can heal the damage we do to ourselves by using special moves. And we don't do nearly as much damage as we should to cater for that weakness. Fixing T21 to do blast would go along way to helping us, but SOE are too incompetent, lazy or gutless.
Thanks for Posting in here Luella! I enjoy good discussion on our class + other classes, along with strategy.
I gotta say that I disagree with the reasons for which you disagree with my original post.
You're basing your argument on your rifle tree - which is 4004 - i specifically stated right at the top of my original post that all comparisons are being done at Master. The rifleman profession is severely back-loaded. You get a huge boost in effectiveness at master due to the +20 rifle speed in the top box. (and this is exactly the way it should be, imo. i wish the other combat professions were arranged like this).
At 4004 rifleman, you're missing the better AE shots (flushing2 and strafe2), don't have conceal shot (useful only for pve, as you said) and you shoot very slow. how slow?
You have +70 rifle speed,you will shoot HS2 with a 5.4 second laser rifle every 2.83 seconds. When you hit master you will have +90 rifle speed. you will then fire that same 5.4 second laser rifle with HS2 at .94 seconds (which is then bumped to the 1 second speed cap. so, 1HS2 per second.). that is a HUGE difference, PvE, and PvP.
I'm not entirely sure what your point was about being a doctor/your stat migration... I also stated in the first post that my comparisons were to be thought of as if you ONLY had rifleman, and nothing else. Obviously, spending skill points that supplement your rifle abilities will help you greatly, and doctor is an excellent choice. My own rifle toon is also 0240 doctor, so i can use enhance stim d's on myself and migrate all stats to mind (human, my mind is 1000/1100/900 ), and I can wear armor without problems. no, not the absolute heaviest armor, or a fullsuit - unless i get a musician buff - but i can easily wear marauder pants, (10 mind without slice), marauder bicep braces, a 50% resist composite chest plate, and when fighting bountyhunters/other rifleman, a 55% resist composite helmet with 274 mind costs (yeah, high i know!) - the armor i do wear is extremely effective in PvP. Combined with my buffs, for me to be brought down by a single player is extremely rare. No, we can't always wear the heaviest armors, as i said in the first post. However, we can pierce armor more effectively than ANY other class. (Jawa rifle, anyone?) I'm also not sure how moving the T21 to to blast damage would benefit us, except against ATST's... might be worth looking into, but i'd rather have the spraystick and tusken fixed first.
you speak of being unable to outdamage a commando - wait till master. yeah, they have a great big DOT, but they are slow, inaccurate, and must be within 16m to hit anything at all. you are very accurate, very fast, can shoot well at ANY range, can AE multiple mobs/players at once with 1500-4500 points of AP3 damage (AP is screwy this week though), and can target random or Mind pools. Commando does great damage, but imo, they aren't as versatile as rifleman, imo.
What i'm trying to say is, if you still feel weak at Master Rifleman, then by all means, come backand share your thoughts, but I still stand by my initial breakdown of rifleman strengths and weaknesses, and i think you'll come to agree with most points when you hit master
btw> you said the T21 costs 'moremind and has more variable results' - yes, it costs more mind, but it is MORE reliable than the laser rifle. Typical t21 is about 130-350 dmg. typical laser is 37-400. The T21 will produce far more reliable dmg than the Laser rifle. but yes, it does cost more mind. however, it does do AP3 dmg, and hopefully SOE will setup an armor configuration that works for us.
countering the counter of the counter...
basically, 90% of your complaints about our profession can be remedied by attaining master, which give you the speed and accuracy bonuses you need to be competitive.
assuming you're master rifleman: for the commando situation - lets say you're both overt, engaging at 70m. you let the commando into 60m range, you start shooting flushing/strafe/headshots (weakest pool) with your jawa rifle because he's wearing composite armor. While you start shooting you run backwards! with the jawa you shoot any of those shots at the speedcap, for anywhere from 200-600 on HS2. lets say every roll is 200, and this commando has a 1000 point mind pool (that's generous for most commando's, and the lowest end of dmg for a jawa HS2). running backwards, hitting for ONLY 200 points against mind, you will drop him in 8 seconds if you miss three times. unless he burst runs against you, he will not get into 20m range. if he does burst run, he may get into range if he's lucky, but he will most likely miss - and you're still pretty accurate even at -20m with the jawa rifle. even if he doesn't miss, you're buffed to over 1500 health and action and possibly wearing armor. there is no way he's going to one shot you.
at master rifleman, you will not lose to a commando starting at max range. i even have screenshots of me beating a grenadeer at 2m with a spraystick.
BH's - yeah, they have eyeshot. thats why they invented helmets + muon gold i've got screenshots of BH's spamming eyeshot and me taking them down, NOT on muon gold. 1 bh never takes me down with eyeshot. 2 or 3 BH's at once - that's trouble unless i'm entertainer buffed.
basically, they can't pierce armor, and nothing they wear can stop your shots. if they wear no armor, you use laser/t21 and devestate them at 1 shot per second for 200-1100 dmg. if they wear 80% resist composite, you use jawa and hurt them even more because their ham cost on specials is now HUGE.
Can't heal mind - yeah, it's a pain in the ass, i know. same thing to buff it. but thats why you became a doctor - so you could have a pretty large mind pool all the time, and pop muon or food in emergencies.
Dmg's - yeah, a 4500 point HS3 is probably impossible or extremely flukey, no matter what the rifle. i wasreferring tousing Flushing2/strafe2 with those numbers. 1500 HS3's are pretty common though. that's a lot of damage to one pool.
range - your optimum range at master rifle is 25m to 64m (outside melee). against non-melee, it doesn't matter. 2m to 64m - you're competitive everywhere. (though better outside of 15m - and it isn't hard to stay that far away).
the reason you're losing battles so badly, pvp, is your lack of dps. at non-master, you shoot god-awful slow. when you hit the speedcap with mater rifle, it all turns around. you don't have to take my word for it, look around the board and you'll see countless "omg rifleman is awesome at master!" threads.
Rifleman just doesn't like to be dabbled in, all or nuthin.
...according to your assesment of our profession, i must seriously suck at pvp. and i assure you i do **edit** well.
not to be totally fromage-y, but.. I find your lack of faith disturbing. 
seriously, do your yourself a favor and just master it - if you still feel it's weak after that, go be a BH like the rest of the.. well, do whatever you want after.
I actually agree with Jeisyn here. Hea has hit the nail on the head. He did leave out a few points though.
Its not all about offensive power (of which we have alot, more about this later) it is also about defense. Most of the defensive mods in rifle are in the concealment and counter-sniping trees. You do not have the ranged defense, or the status defenses. This will result in you getting hit alot more often than a master, and being alot more vulnerable to status hits.
Jeisyn is not joking about our offensive potential either. Strafe2 is never "just" anything. It is the most powerful Area attack in the game, and has a HAM cost roughly equal to HS3. Average PvE damage is from 2-5K damage on each target. In a brief foray to the crystal caves, I have outdamaged a commando with an AT-ST for short periods. Yes their damage per shot is higher, but our rate of fire more than makes up for it.
This brings me to the speed difference between 4-0-0-4 and master.While it is only 20% difference, it is a vital 20%.Lets say you are using a 7 second weapon. At 4-0-0-4 you shoot on average every 2 seconds (7-4.9=2.1). At master you shoot every second (7-6.3=.7). This 20% change in speed effectively DOUBLES your firepower just using autofire.
I strongly urge you to go for master and then look at what you can do. It is impressive.